Velocity Reviews

Velocity Reviews (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/index.php)
-   NZ Computing (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/f47-nz-computing.html)
-   -   Tantalum Capacitor question. (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t734554-tantalum-capacitor-question.html)

~misfit~ 10-02-2010 05:11 AM

Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
I've *finally* started biffing out old computer systems. 10 part-PCs went
today (there's a place out at Paerata with a big box outside and a sign
inviting people to drop off their old unwanted computer equipment). I've
basically dumped everything pre-DDR RAM. They ranged from Pentium 233MMX to
Celeron (Tualatin) 1.4GHz machines.

I grabbed a few CPUs and RAM modules, any HDD over 40GB and some optical
drives that worked last time they were used. I'll test the optical and hard
drives and maybe put a 'box of bits' on Trademe. (As I drove home I thought
about all the sub-40GB HDDs that I'd left there, some of which were actually
from / in my 'main machine' as I upgraded over the years. I hadn't deleted /
reformatted / wiped them and I thought briefly about turning around and
grabbing them to wipe them. Then I realised that I really have nothing to
hide, I didn't have a credit card in those days and it would take a long
time to wipe all of those HDDs.)

Sorry, I digress. My point: I'm scavenging some stuff and I noticed on a few
older AGP cards (amongst other things) quite a few large SM tantalum
capacitors. I wondered if it's worth unsoldering a few or do they 'drift out
of spec' with age like electrolytics?

(I don't have the means to test them, I really should invest in a good
multimeter. However there are so many other things 'on the list' waiting for
funds, like a long-overdue dentist visit that must take priority for any
'extra' funds that come my way.)

If anyone can answer my question please I'll know if it's worth unsoldering
a few tants before I biff the boards into the box of stuff that I'm dropping
off next time....

TIA,
--
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



peterwn 10-02-2010 05:48 AM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
On Oct 2, 6:11*pm, "~misfit~"
> If anyone can answer my question please I'll know if it's worth unsoldering
> a few tants before I biff the boards into the box of stuff that I'm dropping
> off next time....
>

AFAIK they are a type of electrolytic capacitor, but without any
'polarity'. I would there trust them no more than electrolytic
capacitors.

~misfit~ 10-02-2010 07:05 AM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs ~misfit~ wrote:
> I've *finally* started biffing out old computer systems. 10 part-PCs
> went today (there's a place out at Paerata with a big box outside and
> a sign inviting people to drop off their old unwanted computer
> equipment). I've basically dumped everything pre-DDR RAM. They ranged
> from Pentium 233MMX to Celeron (Tualatin) 1.4GHz machines.


Bugger! Halfway through doing this I was in some really serious pain. Anyone
who's not experienced chronic pain might not know this but when the pain
gets really bad and you have to work through it, so much concentration is
required to 'ignore' the pain that other brain functions suffer.

So after getting back and having a cup of tea I start tidying up all the
bits I've kept. Finally I'm going to have some room to move and work on the
system or two that I need to get on with. First on my list is to build an
'internet box' for the niece of a nieghbour who helps me out with any heavy
lifting etcetera that I'd have major problems with.

So I look around for the case that has the motherboard in it... It's an
all-in-one MSI mATX mobo, one of the last Socket 7 mobos made that has had
very little use. It's build quality really impressed me, especially the CPU
VRM area that has large capacitors ali can electros that have plenty of room
around them. All of which looked excellent. Also the four large MOSFETs that
made up the VRM all had decent-sized heatsinks epoxied to them. It had an
Athlon XP2400+ CPU but no RAM (I sequestered the RAM for another box that I
was overhauling and speeding up for a friend). You might have noticed the
use of the past tense. :-(

It was in an anonymous, ugly-looking biege bow, with the PSU removed. I have
a sweet little case put aside to re-build it in and an Enermax PSU.... I
have a few trademe auctions on my watchlist for some DDR RAM....

I was that buggered towards the end of the big sort-out that I just wanted
to get it done, so obviously wasn't taking as much notice as I should have
been. Yep, you guessed it, it's nowhere to be found. I'm thinking that it
was one of the last boxes that I put in the car at a time when I was really
struggling to keep going. It *was* in a rather nasty looking case
considering the quality of the components.

After wandering around the house for the third time I realised that it in
fact isn't here anymore so, just on twilight I jumped in the car and went
back to Paerata to see if I could grab it back. (I've driven past there
sometimes and see that the box still has the same stuff sticking out of it
for days at a time so I was hopeful.)

No such luck. The box has been emptied and I didn't feel like walking up a
long drive at twilight and trying to explain my mistake to someone I've
never met.

<sigh> I have another board / CPU combo here that *might* work for that
project although I've not tested it <fingers crossed>. (I *had* fired up the
MSI when it had RAM in it and an optical drive with a Kubuntu disc and was
impressed with the speed with which it booted. I'd consequently spent an
afternoon seeking out and downloading the XP drivers for it.)

The last orthopaedic surgeon that I saw wasn't wrong when he said that my
back has 'gone degenerative'. These last few months have been noticably
worse than the previous few years. I've done next-to-nothing in my vegetable
garden this year yet.

Oh well, that's enough of a rest. I better get up and pick up all these
computer bits that are scattered around the room and 'classify' them.....
--
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



~misfit~ 10-02-2010 07:15 AM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs peterwn wrote:
> On Oct 2, 6:11 pm, "~misfit~"
>> If anyone can answer my question please I'll know if it's worth
>> unsoldering a few tants before I biff the boards into the box of
>> stuff that I'm dropping off next time....
>>

> AFAIK they are a type of electrolytic capacitor, but without any
> 'polarity'. I would there trust them no more than electrolytic
> capacitors.


Sorry, I was in pain and in a hurry when I wrote that. Yes, they are
electros. However they *do* have a polarity (but unlike aluminium can
capacitors the positive end is marked rather than the negative, a trap for
anyone not used to them.

The question was about how they stand up over time compared to aluminium can
type 'wet' electros which are almost never worth scavenging.

I've since Googled and most sources say that they're much longer-lasting
than ali cans. Wiki says:

"Tantalum electrolytic capacitors are less prone to "drying out" than
aluminum capacitors, which tend to decrease in capacitance particularly when
used in hot environments. Tantalum capacitors maintain their designed
capacitance under such conditions over decades."

Also:

"Tantalum capacitors can replace aluminum electrolytic capacitors in
situations where the external environment or dense component packing results
in a sustained hot internal environment and where high reliability is
important. Equipment such as medical electronics and space equipment that
require high quality and reliability make use of tantalum capacitors."

I've used a few in the past to replace ali can electros that have failed,
specifically in an ADSL modem / router.

Therefore, after that research, I conclude that it's likely worth my while
unsoldering a few of them, especially the larger ones.
--
Cheers,
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



PeeCee 10-02-2010 08:20 AM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 

"~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:i86eub$r71$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> I've *finally* started biffing out old computer systems. 10 part-PCs went
> today (there's a place out at Paerata with a big box outside and a sign
> inviting people to drop off their old unwanted computer equipment). I've
> basically dumped everything pre-DDR RAM. They ranged from Pentium 233MMX
> to Celeron (Tualatin) 1.4GHz machines.
>
> I grabbed a few CPUs and RAM modules, any HDD over 40GB and some optical
> drives that worked last time they were used. I'll test the optical and
> hard drives and maybe put a 'box of bits' on Trademe. (As I drove home I
> thought about all the sub-40GB HDDs that I'd left there, some of which
> were actually from / in my 'main machine' as I upgraded over the years. I
> hadn't deleted / reformatted / wiped them and I thought briefly about
> turning around and grabbing them to wipe them. Then I realised that I
> really have nothing to hide, I didn't have a credit card in those days and
> it would take a long time to wipe all of those HDDs.)
>
> Sorry, I digress. My point: I'm scavenging some stuff and I noticed on a
> few older AGP cards (amongst other things) quite a few large SM tantalum
> capacitors. I wondered if it's worth unsoldering a few or do they 'drift
> out of spec' with age like electrolytics?
>
> (I don't have the means to test them, I really should invest in a good
> multimeter. However there are so many other things 'on the list' waiting
> for funds, like a long-overdue dentist visit that must take priority for
> any 'extra' funds that come my way.)
>
> If anyone can answer my question please I'll know if it's worth
> unsoldering a few tants before I biff the boards into the box of stuff
> that I'm dropping off next time....
>
> TIA,
> --
> Shaun.
>
> "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
> monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
> into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
>


Hi Shaun

Being of a similar mindset to you I have for many years removed Capacitors,
Transistors............Heatsinks, Inductors ......Screws, Brackets.........
Hookup wire, ......... IC's, .............. from boards destined for
disposal.
Now after 40+ years of this it's becoming painfully apparent it's time to
change this lifetime habit.

A while ago during the exploration of long forgotten boxes in the Garage
looking for something that was 'somewhere over there' it dawned on me I
hadn't looked inside these boxes since I'd carefully hoarded the bits away.

What I've come to realise is the bits are usually only useful for repairing
'same technology' equipment, and dramatic changes in electronic hardware
techniques means the bits are only useful for a short period after salvage.
The price of Tant's for example drove designers to minimise their use so
they aren't used much today, so even if you do salvage a heap of them for
nix where do you use them?
TTL was supplanted by CMOS then ... well you get the picture, complicated of
course by the need for serious organisation if one is to find anything later
on.

I would postulate it would be better to sell any salvaged parts turning the
resource into cash that can be used later on to buy the right bits for the
gear in use by then.
That way the bits get used a bit longer (by some one else) and you get less
clutter where you can keep track of what you've got and you've got the cash
to buy more appropriate bits.
Think of it this way, what were those PC's you binned worth when you first
got them? not much for sure but I'll bet you'd have got something, the PC's
would have been used for a while longer.......................

Of course a few bits to hand for a quick lash up......

Best
Paul.




~misfit~ 10-02-2010 10:38 AM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs PeeCee wrote:
> "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:i86eub$r71$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> I've *finally* started biffing out old computer systems. 10 part-PCs
>> went today (there's a place out at Paerata with a big box outside
>> and a sign inviting people to drop off their old unwanted computer
>> equipment). I've basically dumped everything pre-DDR RAM. They
>> ranged from Pentium 233MMX to Celeron (Tualatin) 1.4GHz machines.
>>
>> I grabbed a few CPUs and RAM modules, any HDD over 40GB and some
>> optical drives that worked last time they were used. I'll test the
>> optical and hard drives and maybe put a 'box of bits' on Trademe.
>> (As I drove home I thought about all the sub-40GB HDDs that I'd left
>> there, some of which were actually from / in my 'main machine' as I
>> upgraded over the years. I hadn't deleted / reformatted / wiped them
>> and I thought briefly about turning around and grabbing them to wipe
>> them. Then I realised that I really have nothing to hide, I didn't
>> have a credit card in those days and it would take a long time to
>> wipe all of those HDDs.) Sorry, I digress. My point: I'm scavenging some
>> stuff and I noticed
>> on a few older AGP cards (amongst other things) quite a few large SM
>> tantalum capacitors. I wondered if it's worth unsoldering a few or
>> do they 'drift out of spec' with age like electrolytics?
>>
>> (I don't have the means to test them, I really should invest in a
>> good multimeter. However there are so many other things 'on the
>> list' waiting for funds, like a long-overdue dentist visit that must
>> take priority for any 'extra' funds that come my way.)
>>
>> If anyone can answer my question please I'll know if it's worth
>> unsoldering a few tants before I biff the boards into the box of
>> stuff that I'm dropping off next time....

>
> Hi Shaun


Hey Paul.

> Being of a similar mindset to you I have for many years removed
> Capacitors, Transistors............Heatsinks, Inductors ......Screws,
> Brackets......... Hookup wire, ......... IC's, .............. from
> boards destined for disposal.
> Now after 40+ years of this it's becoming painfully apparent it's
> time to change this lifetime habit.


Yup, same here (to a certain extent), hence the clean-out, starting today.

> A while ago during the exploration of long forgotten boxes in the
> Garage looking for something that was 'somewhere over there' it
> dawned on me I hadn't looked inside these boxes since I'd carefully
> hoarded the bits away.


LOL, I seem to have this habit of hoarding for years, then throwing out just
before the hoarded items become really rare and valuable. :-( I used to
have about 8 shoe-boxes full of old valves / tubes, each carefully wrapped
in tissue. About 5 years after I threw them all out they became rare as
hen's teeth and worth quite a bit of money to folks who restore vintage
radios etcetera.

> What I've come to realise is the bits are usually only useful for
> repairing 'same technology' equipment, and dramatic changes in
> electronic hardware techniques means the bits are only useful for a
> short period after salvage. The price of Tant's for example drove
> designers to minimise their use so they aren't used much today, so
> even if you do salvage a heap of them for nix where do you use them?


Well, as I mentioned, I recently replaced some bulging surface-mount ali can
electros with tants (given to me by a regular here, along with instructions
on use) on the PCB of an ADSL modem / router and it's been running
flawlessly 24/7 ever since.

This one Compaq motherboard and AGP card (from 1998) have around 20 SM tants
on them, most quite a bit bigger than the ones I used to repair the router.
This mobo / AGP card combo was ahead of it's time, the only caps on it (that
I can see without putting on my $10 Warehouse reading specs) are these
20-odd tants, six smallish SM ali cans and four honking great bit 3300uF /
6.3V through-mount ali cans near the CPU socket.

> TTL was supplanted by CMOS then ... well you get the picture,


Yep. However more and more stuff is going SM and SM tants are superior (in
most ways) to SM ali cans and here AM I with 20-odd SM tants, free but for
15 minutes with the soldering iron. I know from afore-mentioned helper that
tants certainly aren't cheap so I don't really see a down-side to this
particular excercise.

Believe me, I've 'been there, done that' w/r/t hoarding components.
Especially electros after the great electro formula fiasco of the end of the
last millenia. For a 'hobbyist' it's not only difficult but also expensive
to buy small quantities of electronic components. Some are
next-to-impossible to source.

For a while there every 486 / Pentium and Pentium II board that I scrapped
was stripped of it's capacitors which were stashed away in those little
plastic boxes with too many compartments.

Then, after a few failed transplants (I'd but new if I could but it wasn't
often I could) I started to only keep Rubycon, Nichicon and Sanyo solid ali
electros. If I got a mobo / expansion card with either brand of caps on it
it got to be a toss-up whether to actually use it as a mobo or rather as a
source of good Japanese electros.

As I see it tants are a few steps up from recycled Rubycon / Nichicon ali
electros. Especially as I've established for myself that they can be
interchangable (and this 1998 freaky Compaq Mobo with heaps of tants tells
me that it's likely only a current cost issue that keeps mobo manufacturers
using ali cans over tants).

> complicated of course by the need for serious organisation if one is
> to find anything later on.


Oh yeah, I know that song well.

> I would postulate it would be better to sell any salvaged parts
> turning the resource into cash that can be used later on to buy the
> right bits for the gear in use by then.


Yep, can't argue with that one. However I'm a hoarder with anxiety issues.
Therefore I try to always keep spare hardware on-hand for my own use (in
case of failure of whatever I'm using right now), also friends and family
are always coming to me for repairs / upgrades / optimisation of PCs so a
collection of spares is very handy. Alas, by the time it's not handy it's
also not worth anything.

> That way the bits get used a bit longer (by some one else) and you
> get less clutter where you can keep track of what you've got and
> you've got the cash to buy more appropriate bits.


Yeah, thing is, simply by dint of my lack of cash I tend to keep back-up
systems in case my primary goes toes-up. Then, by the time the back-up is
obsolete (by my generous terms) it's worth almost nothing.

> Think of it this way, what were those PC's you binned worth when you
> first got them?


OMG I can't believe that you said that! Isn't there an amendment to Moore's
Law that says that you don't ever compare the cost of a computer component
to the relative value of it x months down the track? If there isn't there
bloody well should be! What are you, a geek or an accountant? <g>

> not much for sure but I'll bet you'd have got
> something, the PC's would have been used for a while
> longer.......................


..... and there's the rub. For me it's not so much what I would have got for
them (even though that *should* be my number ONE priority) as the fact that
they could have had a more extensive useful life. I hate the 'buy it then
bin it' consumer society that I find myself in. :-(

> Of course a few bits to hand for a quick lash up......


Exactly so.

Be well,
--
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



Gib Bogle 10-02-2010 09:21 PM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
On 2/10/2010 9:20 p.m., PeeCee wrote:

> Being of a similar mindset to you I have for many years removed Capacitors,
> Transistors............Heatsinks, Inductors ......Screws, Brackets.........
> Hookup wire, ......... IC's, .............. from boards destined for disposal.
> Now after 40+ years of this it's becoming painfully apparent it's time to change
> this lifetime habit.
>
> A while ago during the exploration of long forgotten boxes in the Garage looking
> for something that was 'somewhere over there' it dawned on me I hadn't looked
> inside these boxes since I'd carefully hoarded the bits away.


It's so hard to throw stuff out, when it still does what it was designed and
built to do.

~misfit~ 10-02-2010 11:01 PM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gib Bogle wrote:
> On 2/10/2010 9:20 p.m., PeeCee wrote:
>
>> Being of a similar mindset to you I have for many years removed
>> Capacitors, Transistors............Heatsinks, Inductors
>> ......Screws, Brackets......... Hookup wire, ......... IC's,
>> .............. from boards destined for disposal. Now after 40+
>> years of this it's becoming painfully apparent it's time to change
>> this lifetime habit. A while ago during the exploration of long forgotten
>> boxes in the
>> Garage looking for something that was 'somewhere over there' it
>> dawned on me I hadn't looked inside these boxes since I'd carefully
>> hoarded the bits away.

>
> It's so hard to throw stuff out, when it still does what it was
> designed and built to do.


Exactly so, that was the problem with me, getting rid of all those boxen.
The Compaq (with the tant caps) might only have been a P 233 MMX but it
fired straight up after being in storage for over 5 years. Same with an IBM
Celeron 366. Both were desktop machines, built like the proverbial brick
outhouse and weighed three times what a current mini-tower would weigh.

I really didn't like yesterday. I'd offered some of the machines to people
(free) but nobody wanted them. It's a shame when most of them were built so
well (the Compaq and IBMs in particular) that they'd likely have still been
running in a decade's time, when a new budget machines is several layers
down in a landfill.

Incidently, the place where I took them, there's a big sign saying drop off
your old computer and related hardware and there's an email address and a
cell phone number on the sign [and a name, 'Andy']. When I first
contemplated getting rid of these machines it was the dead of winter and
raining a lot. I emailed him asking whether he actually re-used what he
collected of whether it was recycled for the precious metals etcetera used
in the construction of PCs.

In my email I said that I had a bunch of older, working machines and that I
wanted to know because, if he re-used them I'd drop them off complete, in
working condition at a pre-arranged time, to suit him, so that they wouldn't
be exposed to the weather for any length of time. I didn't get a reply. I
re-sent the email about weekly (trying from different email addresses in
case my email had been spamtrapped) for over a month, asking for a reply,
even one line, so I'd know whether to leave them complete or strip out the
RAM, HDDs etc. to maybe sell on Trademe. Still no reply.

I'd have prefered that they went on to be used frankly, even though I'd
'lose' potential monetary gain from the sale of the RAM and CPUs etcetera on
Trademe. However he never got back to me (and I didn't feel like phoning him
on a cell after being ignored via email) so I stripped them. <shrug>
--
Cheers,
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



Gib Bogle 10-03-2010 01:15 AM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
On 3/10/2010 12:01 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:

> Exactly so, that was the problem with me, getting rid of all those boxen.
> The Compaq (with the tant caps) might only have been a P 233 MMX but it
> fired straight up after being in storage for over 5 years. Same with an IBM
> Celeron 366. Both were desktop machines, built like the proverbial brick
> outhouse and weighed three times what a current mini-tower would weigh.
>
> I really didn't like yesterday. I'd offered some of the machines to people
> (free) but nobody wanted them. It's a shame when most of them were built so
> well (the Compaq and IBMs in particular) that they'd likely have still been
> running in a decade's time, when a new budget machines is several layers
> down in a landfill.

<snip sad story>

I suspect that nobody in these parts is interested in a machine that can't run
at least Windows XP. Getting rid of old stuff is a skill I'm going to have to
learn soon, before I'm ready to be got rid of myself. I have a few old
computers that are to be taken somewhere my wife has found where they apparently
give them to kids to learn on, maybe taking them apart, cannibalizing etc. One
is a Hitachi laptop. I just fired it up to see what it looked like. 133 MHz,
Windows 95, with lots of once-useful software - MS Office, compilers and other
tools. For sure none of this will be of the slightest interest to whoever
receives it.

Another category of old stuff that presents more decisions, of a different kind,
is all that work-related material, on paper and on diskette, from years of
self-employment. Not having looked at it for a few years, I can be pretty sure
I'll never want to look at most of it again. But you can't be completely sure.

Another 'old stuff' problem we have is more unusual. After living in the US for
many years, in an old house with a fine 60s vintage gas oven, the big solid
kind, the cooking equivalent of a V8 from the same period, we foolishly bought
it back with us in the container, thinking we would use it. Now that we finally
have a house with enough kitchen space to install it, we learn that being an old
model of a brand uncommon here, it does not have certification. No gas fitter
will install it, without it first going through the certification process,
which, we're told, would cost much more than it's worth. This is almost a
collectable piece - in fact we've collected it and are storing it in the garage,
where it quietly rusts. I haven't yet adjusted to the idea of dumping it, but
I'd be happy to give it away to anyone who wants it, maybe someone who's happy
to break the law and fit it himself. A friend in the US would like it, but
packing and freighting it would cost too much. It's not just garage space that
this stuff takes up, it's also brain space.

~misfit~ 10-03-2010 08:48 AM

Re: Tantalum Capacitor question.
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gib Bogle wrote:
> On 3/10/2010 12:01 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Exactly so, that was the problem with me, getting rid of all those
>> boxen. The Compaq (with the tant caps) might only have been a P 233
>> MMX but it fired straight up after being in storage for over 5
>> years. Same with an IBM Celeron 366. Both were desktop machines,
>> built like the proverbial brick outhouse and weighed three times
>> what a current mini-tower would weigh. I really didn't like yesterday.
>> I'd offered some of the machines to
>> people (free) but nobody wanted them. It's a shame when most of them
>> were built so well (the Compaq and IBMs in particular) that they'd
>> likely have still been running in a decade's time, when a new budget
>> machines is several layers down in a landfill.

> <snip sad story>
>
> I suspect that nobody in these parts is interested in a machine that
> can't run at least Windows XP. Getting rid of old stuff is a skill
> I'm going to have to learn soon, before I'm ready to be got rid of
> myself. I have a few old computers that are to be taken somewhere my
> wife has found where they apparently give them to kids to learn on,
> maybe taking them apart, cannibalizing etc. One is a Hitachi laptop.
> I just fired it up to see what it looked like. 133 MHz, Windows 95,
> with lots of once-useful software - MS Office, compilers and other
> tools. For sure none of this will be of the slightest interest to
> whoever receives it.
> Another category of old stuff that presents more decisions, of a
> different kind, is all that work-related material, on paper and on
> diskette, from years of self-employment. Not having looked at it for
> a few years, I can be pretty sure I'll never want to look at most of
> it again. But you can't be completely sure.
> Another 'old stuff' problem we have is more unusual. After living in
> the US for many years, in an old house with a fine 60s vintage gas
> oven, the big solid kind, the cooking equivalent of a V8 from the
> same period, we foolishly bought it back with us in the container,
> thinking we would use it. Now that we finally have a house with
> enough kitchen space to install it, we learn that being an old model
> of a brand uncommon here, it does not have certification. No gas
> fitter will install it, without it first going through the
> certification process, which, we're told, would cost much more than
> it's worth. This is almost a collectable piece - in fact we've
> collected it and are storing it in the garage, where it quietly
> rusts. I haven't yet adjusted to the idea of dumping it, but I'd be
> happy to give it away to anyone who wants it, maybe someone who's
> happy to break the law and fit it himself. A friend in the US would
> like it, but packing and freighting it would cost too much. It's not
> just garage space that this stuff takes up, it's also brain space.


LOL, yeah, it can get complicated. Good luck with the oven.
--
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:37 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.