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RichA 07-23-2010 02:40 AM

All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
Amateur Photographer:


The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
warn.

The UK photo industry has surpassed £615m in sales so far this year,
figures compiled by market analysts at GfK Retail and Technology show.

'With over half the year complete, the Photo/Imaging market remains in
a relatively positive growth position…' said a GfK spokesman.

'Looking at the changeable lens category, this has been helped by the
growth of the compact system camera market, fuelled recently by
several new brands entering this market, in addition to new models
from existing brands.

'Consequently, the total changeable lens market posted growth of 14.9%
in value.'

Digital camera sales (£385m) account for nearly two thirds of overall
sales.

However, the news comes as analysts at Futuresource warn that the
'higher average retail price' of an interchangeable lens compact,
compared to an 'entry-level DSLR', will limit growth of this sector in
Europe.

'Another big influence on growth will be whether Canon and Nikon – who
currently dominate the wider interchangeable lens camera market –
decide to launch an interchangeable lens compact product,' said
Futuresource consultant James Wells.

'In the short term, while we are expecting significant growth… it will
still only reach shipments of 377,000 units across Western Europe in
2010, compared to 3.3m units for DSLRs.'

Canon/Nikon 'stranglehold'

Wells added: 'Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung (with a 20%
combined share of interchangeable lens camera shipments in 2009) are
expected to promote this segment heavily in 2010, particularly at the
Photokina show in September, in the run-up to the important fourth
quarter period.

'The long-term aim [for them] is to try to break Canon and Nikon's
stranglehold on the interchangeable lens camera market. Suffice to
say, this will be an interesting space to watch over the next two or
three years.'

GfK adds that the growth of the changeable lens market has had a
positive 'knock-on effect' on the sales of accessories, as consumers
shun cheaper products in favour of higher value items to go with their
cameras.

Though sales volume fell, the value of accessories sold rose.

'Bags/tripods grew 0.6% in value for the year to date compared to this
time last year, whilst lenses and memory cards increased their market
value by 5.8% and 0.3% respectively.

Accessories were worth £179m alone in July.

Bruce 07-23-2010 09:40 AM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:59:28 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN!
<otif@trollouters.org> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>Amateur Photographer:
>>
>>The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
>>boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
>>will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
>>warn.

>
>The UK market is 0.9% of the world. Why they think that they in any way
>reflect the rest of the world is beyond me.



The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No
claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
UK market. None.

The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
no comparable retail data available from US sources. The Japanese
photo industry stopped publishing retail data a couple of years ago.
No other countries except the UK publish their data. So the whining
Canadian seized on the only market data that is still being published.

>Just more of their lousy bloody british pomposity.



Your American arrogance is showing.


Bruce 07-23-2010 10:10 AM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>Canon/Nikon 'stranglehold'
>
>Wells added: 'Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung (with a 20%
>combined share of interchangeable lens camera shipments in 2009) are
>expected to promote this segment heavily in 2010, particularly at the
>Photokina show in September, in the run-up to the important fourth
>quarter period.



That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs
and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the
Samsung NX-10.

Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They
fell a very long way short of their target.

What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a
complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in
which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon
and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space
across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has
completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops.

Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still
outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't
sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means
that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come.

Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony
P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are
that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up
from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR
sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced.

In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will
hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290
and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has
been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the
range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner
Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A
successful launch for NEX can only make things worse.

The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when.


Alan Lichtenstein 07-23-2010 10:37 AM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
Bruce wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:59:28 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN!
> <otif@trollouters.org> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Amateur Photographer:
>>>
>>>The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
>>>boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
>>>will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
>>>warn.

>>
>>The UK market is 0.9% of the world. Why they think that they in any way
>>reflect the rest of the world is beyond me.

>
>
>
> The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No
> claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
> UK market. None.
>
> The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
> no comparable retail data available from US sources. The Japanese
> photo industry stopped publishing retail data a couple of years ago.
> No other countries except the UK publish their data. So the whining
> Canadian seized on the only market data that is still being published.
>
>
>>Just more of their lousy bloody british pomposity.


Personalities aside, sometime ago, I had some off-the-record
discussions with people from Olympus. They seem to share those
predictive opinions, and in fact, they validated the conjectures in the
UK article posted above about overall trends and their position on
compact EVF Interchangeable lens cameras. However, I restate that these
comments are strictly 'unofficial.'

RichA 07-23-2010 12:14 PM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
On Jul 23, 5:40*am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:59:28 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN!
>
> <o...@trollouters.org> wrote:
> >On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3...@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >>Amateur Photographer:

>
> >>The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
> >>boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
> >>will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
> >>warn.

>
> >The UK market is 0.9% of the world. Why they think that they in any way
> >reflect the rest of the world is beyond me.

>
> The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. *No
> claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
> UK market. *None.
>
> The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
> no comparable retail data available from US sources.


You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other
markets, that it stands alone?


whisky-dave 07-23-2010 12:48 PM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 

"RichA" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:27246d6b-7d60-44ef-a42e-8e0a8a07f1b5@w12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 23, 5:40 am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:59:28 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN!
>
> <o...@trollouters.org> wrote:
> >On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3...@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >>Amateur Photographer:

>
> >>The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
> >>boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
> >>will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
> >>warn.

>
> >The UK market is 0.9% of the world. Why they think that they in any way
> >reflect the rest of the world is beyond me.

>
> The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No
> claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
> UK market. None.
>
> The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
> no comparable retail data available from US sources.


}You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other
}markets, that it stands alone?

Well we do have a lot of water around us ;-)




Bruce 07-23-2010 08:51 PM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:14:18 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Jul 23, 5:40*am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. *No
>> claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
>> UK market. *None.
>>
>> The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
>> no comparable retail data available from US sources.

>
>You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other
>markets, that it stands alone?



I do know from historic data that purchasing trends in the UK differed
greatly from the USA, Japan and countries in mainland Europe in the
past. But that data is no longer publicly available.

In the absence of any published data, it is now impossible to compare,
so your question cannot be answered.



Bruce 07-23-2010 08:53 PM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
<nobody@homehere.net> wrote:

>
>"Bruce" <docnews2011@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:8uoi469niqu76otbqvr0u8l74a4eojbpc5@4ax.com.. .
>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>Canon/Nikon 'stranglehold'
>>>
>>>Wells added: 'Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung (with a 20%
>>>combined share of interchangeable lens camera shipments in 2009) are
>>>expected to promote this segment heavily in 2010, particularly at the
>>>Photokina show in September, in the run-up to the important fourth
>>>quarter period.

>>
>>
>> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs
>> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the
>> Samsung NX-10.
>>
>> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They
>> fell a very long way short of their target.
>>
>> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a
>> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in
>> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon
>> and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space
>> across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has
>> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops.
>>
>> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still
>> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't
>> sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means
>> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come.
>>
>> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony
>> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are
>> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up
>> from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR
>> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced.
>>
>> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will
>> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290
>> and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has
>> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the
>> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner
>> Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A
>> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse.
>>
>> The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when.

>
>That's very interesting, and unfortunate.
>
>Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales.
>They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division,
>operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last year),
>less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most analyst
>opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at
>the recent peak in March.
>


Peter 07-23-2010 09:22 PM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
"Bruce" <docnews2011@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7vvj46hgv9ui5cl0hsmakk2585fi05312o@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:14:18 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3127@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>On Jul 23, 5:40 am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No
>>> claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
>>> UK market. None.
>>>
>>> The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
>>> no comparable retail data available from US sources.

>>
>>You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other
>>markets, that it stands alone?

>
>
> I do know from historic data that purchasing trends in the UK differed
> greatly from the USA, Japan and countries in mainland Europe in the
> past. But that data is no longer publicly available.
>
> In the absence of any published data, it is now impossible to compare,
> so your question cannot be answered.
>
>



Hint! such data for the US is available.


www.marketresearch.com (a paid site)

or dig it out. Starting point:

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/...ng-still-weak/

or

http://www.sba.gov/advo/research/rs240tot.pdf

or

http://www.uschamber.com/issues/inde...dataaccess.htm

or

http://www.bls.gov/


As for Canada at lest as of August 2008:

http://www.corostrandberg.com/pdfs/S...aper%20082.pdf

Yup! you may have to dig out the necessary data yourself, or pay for it. the
data is available. If the answer is important to you, go for it.

--
Peter


Bruce 07-23-2010 09:23 PM

Re: All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market
 
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
<nobody@homehere.net> wrote:
>"Bruce" <docnews2011@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:8uoi469niqu76otbqvr0u8l74a4eojbpc5@4ax.com.. .
>>
>> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs
>> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the
>> Samsung NX-10.
>>
>> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They
>> fell a very long way short of their target.
>>
>> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a
>> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in
>> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon
>> and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space
>> across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has
>> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops.
>>
>> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still
>> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't
>> sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means
>> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come.
>>
>> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony
>> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are
>> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up
>> from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR
>> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced.
>>
>> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will
>> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290
>> and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has
>> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the
>> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner
>> Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A
>> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse.
>>
>> The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when.

>
>That's very interesting, and unfortunate.
>
>Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales.
>They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division,
>operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last year),
>less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most analyst
>opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at
>the recent peak in March.



Thanks Neil, I hadn't realised that other parts of Sony were having
such problems.

I take a keen interest in Sony Alpha because I have a good friend who
owns a photo store that was a Minolta Professional Dealer for many
years and now sells (or rather, doesn't sell) Sony Alpha, plus several
friends who worked for Konica Minolta UK and lost their jobs when Sony
took over. They are all still working in the photo field, but had to
find new jobs at short notice.

My dealer friend is also a Minolta/Alpha user but is intensely
frustrated with the Alpha products that he has great difficulty
selling. As an enthusiast, it grieves him terribly to see a
lacklustre product range that just doesn't sell against Nikon, Canon
and Pentax.

He tells me that Sony has been reduced to taking back unsold stocks of
several Minolta-made lenses and 'remanufacturing' them with Sony
badges to try to get them to sell. This isn't just a question of
sticking on a Sony badge. In some cases, things like barrels and
bezels have to be changed. It must be an embarrassment that these
lenses haven't sold, a full four and a half years after Konica Minolta
called a halt to manufacture, and a whole seven and a half years since
Minolta and Konica merged!

An example is the "Sony" 135mm STF which is just a rebranded version
of a Minolta lens that didn't sell.

http://www.the135stf.net/

The way Sony dealt with former Konica Minolta UK employees was
shameful. There was a lot of expertise in supporting and servicing
Konica Minolta products and all that was lost.

I first found out about this when I was trying to get spare parts for
my Konica Hexar RF, a 35mm rangefinder camera with the M bayonet
mount. It is a gem of a camera, one that is all the Leica M7 should
have been, but wasn't: Robust, reliable, with a 1/4000 sec* fastest
shutter speed - invaluable with f/1.4 or f/1.0 (or even f/0.95 lenses)
in daylight - this is in my opinion the best M rangefinder body that
Leica never made.

Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare
parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just
dumped them! They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners
could no longer obtain spares. Sony should have sold on the parts to
another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but
Sony just ignored them.


*Leica M7 and MP have a claimed fastest shutter speed of 1/1000 sec
but, as with all Leica M bodies since the M3, most struggle to provide
anything faster than 1/700 sec at that shutter speed setting.



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