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Scribner 03-11-2009 03:12 AM

Major Computer Problem
 
It all started about 8 months ago. I guess that a USB PCI card became
loose and when I pushed the computer back towards the wall the cords
moved the card which shorted out the motherboard. I replaced the m/b
with an identical model. The USB card was also fried, so I replaced
it. My DVD burner acted a little funny (tray had to be coaxed to
open) but it still worked so I kept it. Everything was fine until
about 4 weeks ago. On a Friday and then on a Monday, my area
completely lost power for about 30 minutes. I have my computer
plugged into my $135 surge suppressor into which I also have my TV and
home theatre system. There seemed to be no ill effects from the power
loss. Three weeks ago, I bought this gizmo which converts VHS tapes
into DVD's by plugging into your computer via a USB cable. I was on
my third tape when my power supply blew with a bang. It was a 20
month old 500 watt CooMax. I had no choice, so I immediately replaced
it with a Thermaltake 600 watt ps. I thought that was the end of my
problems when the other day the computer tried to start, got as far as
the Windows welcome screen and then the power shut off for a second. I
tried restarting a few times and each time the power supply cut off
and recycled faster and faster until it was shutting off at POST. I
removed each memory module one at a time to see if it was a memory
malfunction, and it wasn't. When I was using the software for the
gizmo, which I returned as soon as the power supply blew, it would
always access by floppy B: drive. Assuming that this constant running
may have damaged the floppy drive, I unplugged both A: and B: and shut
them off in my BIOS. After this, the computer started right up. While
I was in my BIOS, I decided to check things just to be sure. My BIOS
revealed the my CPU fan's RPM's were 0. I opened up the case and the
fan was barely moving. I pulled the fan out, blew it out, and
lubricated it with some silicone. It then ran faster than factory
specs. But I didn't want to trust it. So I bought and installed a
big honking brand new fan. I also installed some monitoring software
to check things. Once again, everything was fine. Until tonight. The
computer had been on for about 9 hours. I was using the internet
(email sending was molassas slow for some reason) and I had about a
dozen files open. Most were notepad. Two were IE. And the power
supply died. I tried to recycle it, but it wouldn't come back on. I
called Thermaltake. The tech had me unplug everything and short the
power supply to see if the fan would even turn. It wouldn't. So I
made a quick trip to Fry's and I exchanged my dead ps for their last
Thermaltake Pure Power 600W PS. The thing has been discontinued. I
plugged it in, removed all of my USB cards, confirmed that my AGP
video card's fan was working, unplugged my two burners, and started up
the computer. And it is working.

The problem cannot be the power supply. So what is it? The
Thermaltake tech suggested that they have seen video cards pull so
much power that the blow the ps, but I wasn't doing a game. Although
my computer, running the original CoolMax, shut down when I was
playing a game for about 20 minutes while I have my usual work windows
open. But a cycling of the Master switch fixed the problem. Though I
haven't played the game since. The card is an AGP NVIDIA GeForce 7600
GS.

I have run a stress test on the CPU, and Intel Core Duo 2 6400 @ 2.13
GHz 2.13 GHz. The first time, under the CoolMax, when it was going off
and on, killed it. With the new power supply, there was no problem.

Right now, I'm running the motherboard, CPU, CPU fan, video card,
video card fan, 56k modem, 2 gigs of memory, a couple of case fans,
and two SATA hard drives.

Any idea what is causing my problem? I REALLY need my computer for
work. No computer = no work. Thanks.

Desk Rabbit 03-11-2009 12:16 PM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
Scribner wrote:
<massive snippage>

> (email sending was molassas slow for some reason) and I had about a
> dozen files open. Most were notepad. Two were IE. And the power
> supply died. I tried to recycle it, but it wouldn't come back on. I
> called Thermaltake. The tech had me unplug everything and short the
> power supply to see if the fan would even turn. It wouldn't. So I
> made a quick trip to Fry's and I exchanged my dead ps for their last
> Thermaltake Pure Power 600W PS. The thing has been discontinued. I
> plugged it in, removed all of my USB cards, confirmed that my AGP
> video card's fan was working, unplugged my two burners, and started up
> the computer. And it is working.
>
> The problem cannot be the power supply. So what is it?


Err, it's the power supply. The old one didn't work, the new one did.
What did you think, that these incidents were unrelated and it must be
the rubber feet on the bottom?????

> Any idea what is causing my problem? I REALLY need my computer for
> work. No computer = no work. Thanks.


Get a UPS. A surge protector won't keep your computer going during a
power failure nor will it ensure that it shuts down gracefully and
closes all open files before powering down.

Scribner 03-11-2009 03:35 PM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:16:28 +0000, Desk Rabbit <me@example.com>
wrote:

>Scribner wrote:
><massive snippage>
>
>> (email sending was molassas slow for some reason) and I had about a
>> dozen files open. Most were notepad. Two were IE. And the power
>> supply died. I tried to recycle it, but it wouldn't come back on. I
>> called Thermaltake. The tech had me unplug everything and short the
>> power supply to see if the fan would even turn. It wouldn't. So I
>> made a quick trip to Fry's and I exchanged my dead ps for their last
>> Thermaltake Pure Power 600W PS. The thing has been discontinued. I
>> plugged it in, removed all of my USB cards, confirmed that my AGP
>> video card's fan was working, unplugged my two burners, and started up
>> the computer. And it is working.
>>
>> The problem cannot be the power supply. So what is it?

>
>Err, it's the power supply. The old one didn't work, the new one did.
>What did you think, that these incidents were unrelated and it must be
>the rubber feet on the bottom?????
>
>> Any idea what is causing my problem? I REALLY need my computer for
>> work. No computer = no work. Thanks.

>
>Get a UPS. A surge protector won't keep your computer going during a
>power failure nor will it ensure that it shuts down gracefully and
>closes all open files before powering down.




Ok. It's the power supply. I'm on my third. I hope that you are
right.

Desk Rabbit 03-11-2009 04:11 PM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
Scribner wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:16:28 +0000, Desk Rabbit <me@example.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Scribner wrote:
>> <massive snippage>
>>
>>> (email sending was molassas slow for some reason) and I had about a
>>> dozen files open. Most were notepad. Two were IE. And the power
>>> supply died. I tried to recycle it, but it wouldn't come back on. I
>>> called Thermaltake. The tech had me unplug everything and short the
>>> power supply to see if the fan would even turn. It wouldn't. So I
>>> made a quick trip to Fry's and I exchanged my dead ps for their last
>>> Thermaltake Pure Power 600W PS. The thing has been discontinued. I
>>> plugged it in, removed all of my USB cards, confirmed that my AGP
>>> video card's fan was working, unplugged my two burners, and started up
>>> the computer. And it is working.
>>>
>>> The problem cannot be the power supply. So what is it?

>> Err, it's the power supply. The old one didn't work, the new one did.
>> What did you think, that these incidents were unrelated and it must be
>> the rubber feet on the bottom?????
>>
>>> Any idea what is causing my problem? I REALLY need my computer for
>>> work. No computer = no work. Thanks.

>> Get a UPS. A surge protector won't keep your computer going during a
>> power failure nor will it ensure that it shuts down gracefully and
>> closes all open files before powering down.

>
>
>
> Ok. It's the power supply. I'm on my third. I hope that you are
> right.


May be that your surge protector strip is U/S. Get a UPS if the computer
is that important for work.

chuckcar 03-11-2009 10:09 PM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
Scribner <walter3ca@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:0hmfr49e71iusnqkh8f5dncvla62ie2ag1@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:16:28 +0000, Desk Rabbit <me@example.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Scribner wrote:
>><massive snippage>
>>
>>> (email sending was molassas slow for some reason) and I had about a
>>> dozen files open. Most were notepad. Two were IE. And the power
>>> supply died. I tried to recycle it, but it wouldn't come back on. I
>>> called Thermaltake. The tech had me unplug everything and short the
>>> power supply to see if the fan would even turn. It wouldn't. So I
>>> made a quick trip to Fry's and I exchanged my dead ps for their last
>>> Thermaltake Pure Power 600W PS. The thing has been discontinued. I
>>> plugged it in, removed all of my USB cards, confirmed that my AGP
>>> video card's fan was working, unplugged my two burners, and started up
>>> the computer. And it is working.
>>>
>>> The problem cannot be the power supply. So what is it?

>>
>>Err, it's the power supply. The old one didn't work, the new one did.
>>What did you think, that these incidents were unrelated and it must be
>>the rubber feet on the bottom?????
>>
>>> Any idea what is causing my problem? I REALLY need my computer for
>>> work. No computer = no work. Thanks.

>>
>>Get a UPS. A surge protector won't keep your computer going during a
>>power failure nor will it ensure that it shuts down gracefully and
>>closes all open files before powering down.

>
>
>
> Ok. It's the power supply. I'm on my third. I hope that you are
> right.


Also do *not* connect your VCR to DVD device to your computer's power
supply, that's what blew it. Use a separate power supply plugged into the
wall. We've seen this same exact thing mentioned by another poster in the
last month.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

Tony 03-12-2009 06:26 AM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
The other poster is probably as daft as you. The device is made to be
connected to the power supply. Your advice as usual is wrong. Go away this is
getting old fast.

chuckcar wrote:

> Scribner <walter3ca@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:0hmfr49e71iusnqkh8f5dncvla62ie2ag1@4ax.com:
>
> > On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:16:28 +0000, Desk Rabbit <me@example.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Scribner wrote:
> >><massive snippage>
> >>
> >>> (email sending was molassas slow for some reason) and I had about a
> >>> dozen files open. Most were notepad. Two were IE. And the power
> >>> supply died. I tried to recycle it, but it wouldn't come back on. I
> >>> called Thermaltake. The tech had me unplug everything and short the
> >>> power supply to see if the fan would even turn. It wouldn't. So I
> >>> made a quick trip to Fry's and I exchanged my dead ps for their last
> >>> Thermaltake Pure Power 600W PS. The thing has been discontinued. I
> >>> plugged it in, removed all of my USB cards, confirmed that my AGP
> >>> video card's fan was working, unplugged my two burners, and started up
> >>> the computer. And it is working.
> >>>
> >>> The problem cannot be the power supply. So what is it?
> >>
> >>Err, it's the power supply. The old one didn't work, the new one did.
> >>What did you think, that these incidents were unrelated and it must be
> >>the rubber feet on the bottom?????
> >>
> >>> Any idea what is causing my problem? I REALLY need my computer for
> >>> work. No computer = no work. Thanks.
> >>
> >>Get a UPS. A surge protector won't keep your computer going during a
> >>power failure nor will it ensure that it shuts down gracefully and
> >>closes all open files before powering down.

> >
> >
> >
> > Ok. It's the power supply. I'm on my third. I hope that you are
> > right.

>
> Also do *not* connect your VCR to DVD device to your computer's power
> supply, that's what blew it. Use a separate power supply plugged into the
> wall. We've seen this same exact thing mentioned by another poster in the
> last month.
>
> --
> (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )


--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper
manners

Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond
the realm of understandability

Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday



Desk Rabbit 03-12-2009 09:05 AM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
chuckcar wrote:
> Scribner <walter3ca@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:0hmfr49e71iusnqkh8f5dncvla62ie2ag1@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:16:28 +0000, Desk Rabbit <me@example.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Scribner wrote:
>>> <massive snippage>
>>>
>>>> (email sending was molassas slow for some reason) and I had about a
>>>> dozen files open. Most were notepad. Two were IE. And the power
>>>> supply died. I tried to recycle it, but it wouldn't come back on. I
>>>> called Thermaltake. The tech had me unplug everything and short the
>>>> power supply to see if the fan would even turn. It wouldn't. So I
>>>> made a quick trip to Fry's and I exchanged my dead ps for their last
>>>> Thermaltake Pure Power 600W PS. The thing has been discontinued. I
>>>> plugged it in, removed all of my USB cards, confirmed that my AGP
>>>> video card's fan was working, unplugged my two burners, and started up
>>>> the computer. And it is working.
>>>>
>>>> The problem cannot be the power supply. So what is it?
>>> Err, it's the power supply. The old one didn't work, the new one did.
>>> What did you think, that these incidents were unrelated and it must be
>>> the rubber feet on the bottom?????
>>>
>>>> Any idea what is causing my problem? I REALLY need my computer for
>>>> work. No computer = no work. Thanks.
>>> Get a UPS. A surge protector won't keep your computer going during a
>>> power failure nor will it ensure that it shuts down gracefully and
>>> closes all open files before powering down.

>>
>>
>> Ok. It's the power supply. I'm on my third. I hope that you are
>> right.

>
> Also do *not* connect your VCR to DVD device to your computer's power
> supply, that's what blew it. Use a separate power supply plugged into the
> wall. We've seen this same exact thing mentioned by another poster in the
> last month.
>

That's because it was the same person talking about the same problem
Einstein. ROFL!!!!!!!!!

And in the previous post he said the device was USB powered. Double ROFL!

westom 03-12-2009 04:00 PM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
On Mar 11, 11:35 am, Scribner <walter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ok. It's the power supply. I'm on my third. I hope that you are
> right/


Anything that UPS would do to protect a power supply is already
inside the power supply. Too many also want to blame manufacturing
defects on surges. If you had a surge, then you also have other
damaged appliances. Computer power supplies (properly constructed)
make computers some of the most robust appliances in the house.

Meanwhile, your problem is replacing things without first learning
what failed - shotgunning. If it was a power supply, a multimeter and
two minutes would have said so without doubt. And the same meter
would have identified the new supply as working. Currently unknown -
was the 1st power supply bad? Was then 2nd supply also defective? Is
the third supply sufficient? Is something else wrong?

The meter could have identified failures in other parts of the power
supply system. Or in two minutes, you knew the power supply was OK
and moved on to other suspects. Yes, a system. Were you replacing
power supplies to fix some other power supply system component?

Get the meter. Know what is good - without doubt - or what is bad
in less than two minutes. Then have numbers so that others who
actually know this stuff have facts worthy of a reply. Yes, those
numbers report others things you would not know.

A summary of what to measure is "When your computer dies without
warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp
at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh
Connector chart to locate each color:
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connecto.../atxpower.html

Those who know this stuff also know a defective supply can often
boot a computer. And that a perfectly good supply will work in some
systems and fail weeks later in others. Either voltages are measured
today to see the defect now. Or the machine creates strange,
continuous, and unrelated failures weeks from now. Solve it today and
know it is fixed. Or shotgun and spend days troubling over a problem
unidentified. Use the meter. A defect could be elsewhere and you are
still buying more power supplies?

Also ignore those silly responses about a UPS to protect hardware.
Even the UPS manufacturer does not make that claim.

Desk Rabbit 03-12-2009 05:30 PM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
westom wrote:
> On Mar 11, 11:35 am, Scribner <walter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Ok. It's the power supply. I'm on my third. I hope that you are
>> right/

>
> Anything that UPS would do to protect a power supply is already
> inside the power supply.


FX: Looks inside PSU. Nope, no batteries in here

> Too many also want to blame manufacturing
> defects on surges. If you had a surge, then you also have other
> damaged appliances.

My electric fire survived the last surge just fine. As did the kettle,
toaster and oven.

> Computer power supplies (properly constructed)
> make computers some of the most robust appliances in the house.
>
> Meanwhile, your problem is replacing things without first learning
> what failed - shotgunning. If it was a power supply, a multimeter and
> two minutes would have said so without doubt.


Great advice, only trouble is you need to know how to use a multimeter
and how to interpret the results. Not for the novice, particularly when
most PSU require certain pins to be shorted before they produce output
so to the novice with his multimeter they will look dead. This is
assuming they don't put the meter on the ohms range whilst measuring
voltage....


> Also ignore those silly responses about a UPS to protect hardware.
> Even the UPS manufacturer does not make that claim.

http://www.apc.com/tools/mytools/ind...63344AF8B736BE
http://www.apc.com/tools/mytools/ind...A63F693F33422B

Gosh I'm so glad my ISP doesn't use those silly pointless UPS's to
protect their hardware or else you wouldn't be able to see the part of
this message where I call you a o070u[ou[up'upo % %&%*

<CARRIER LOST>

chuckcar 03-12-2009 11:02 PM

Re: Major Computer Problem
 
Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> wrote in
news:gpaj7s$lpk$1@deskrabbit.motzarella.org:

> chuckcar wrote:
>> Scribner <walter3ca@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>> Get a UPS. A surge protector won't keep your computer going during a
>>>> power failure nor will it ensure that it shuts down gracefully and
>>>> closes all open files before powering down.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok. It's the power supply. I'm on my third. I hope that you are
>>> right.

>>
>> Also do *not* connect your VCR to DVD device to your computer's power
>> supply, that's what blew it. Use a separate power supply plugged into
>> the wall. We've seen this same exact thing mentioned by another poster
>> in the last month.
>>

> That's because it was the same person talking about the same problem
> Einstein. ROFL!!!!!!!!!
>
> And in the previous post he said the device was USB powered. Double
> ROFL!


And *where* *exactly* did he say he was now connecting it to an AC powered
hub?

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )


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