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Tony Jarvis 12-27-2003 02:07 AM

Programming language selection and training
 
Hello, I have a few questions keeping me up at night.


1) Most people learn a programming language because they
work for a company that already uses it, so they are told
to learn it. I am learning programming and want to start
my own company one day around programming. Could you
please inform me how I should best evaluate each of the
Microsoft programming languages and decide which one is
best for me? I know that Visual Basic is very easy but
programs are larger and slower compared to Visual C++,
but that's as far as my knowledge goes.

2) I think I am tossing up between learning Visual C++
and C#. I already know beginning Visual C++ and MFC.
Unfortunately, Microsoft does not offer much Visual C++
training (only Managed Extensions which are far beyond me
at the moment). If it turns out I want to learn Visual
C++ instead of C#, what other avenues are available to me
to learn in depth Visual C++ skills without working for a
programming company? I want to learn skills like how to
create set up programs, distribute updates and patches
etc. Things that go beyond a simple programming concepts
book.

3) What learning do I need to do before attempting the
MSAD? I know there are prerequisite studies. How do I
obtain this programming experience?

Any help you could provide would be invaluable to me.

Thanking you in advance,

Tony Jarvis

Hermit Dave 12-27-2003 02:30 PM

Re: Programming language selection and training
 
Tony,

I wouldn't advise you to get on the VC++ route, purely for one reason.
well win32s future as is looks bleak. Reasons being... one it was a pain in
the neck
Programming in VB was easy but to do something with win32s was not easy.
VC++ was good and could do almost everything easily but you had the problems
of memory leak and lot of things based on weak pointer references
With .NET microsoft is essentially starting with a clean slate... no
complexities (not unusual ones)... and a common framework for all
languages...
i would suggest C# for one reason.. being its 100% pure... unlike VB or VC++
..... things were not changed to make C# work with .NET
plus its a great language.. with lots of features... hybrid C++/ java sytax
and VB like programming model. Not to forget it's standardized

Plus you will get all the resources you want....

--
Regards,

HD

"Tony Jarvis" <tonyjamesjarvis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:026801c3cc1e$38a812d0$a501280a@phx.gbl...
> Hello, I have a few questions keeping me up at night.
>
>
> 1) Most people learn a programming language because they
> work for a company that already uses it, so they are told
> to learn it. I am learning programming and want to start
> my own company one day around programming. Could you
> please inform me how I should best evaluate each of the
> Microsoft programming languages and decide which one is
> best for me? I know that Visual Basic is very easy but
> programs are larger and slower compared to Visual C++,
> but that's as far as my knowledge goes.
>
> 2) I think I am tossing up between learning Visual C++
> and C#. I already know beginning Visual C++ and MFC.
> Unfortunately, Microsoft does not offer much Visual C++
> training (only Managed Extensions which are far beyond me
> at the moment). If it turns out I want to learn Visual
> C++ instead of C#, what other avenues are available to me
> to learn in depth Visual C++ skills without working for a
> programming company? I want to learn skills like how to
> create set up programs, distribute updates and patches
> etc. Things that go beyond a simple programming concepts
> book.
>
> 3) What learning do I need to do before attempting the
> MSAD? I know there are prerequisite studies. How do I
> obtain this programming experience?
>
> Any help you could provide would be invaluable to me.
>
> Thanking you in advance,
>
> Tony Jarvis




Tony Jarvis 12-28-2003 12:48 AM

Re: Programming language selection and training
 
Thank you very much for your advice. I will take your
advice and start with some introductory C#.

Just 2 quick questions:
1) How do people know what language to choose? There are
so many opinions and marketing spiel on the web, it is
very hard to understand the core differences and
benefits/drawbacks of each. How did you learn the
differences? Or is there an article somewhere on the web
you could point me to?

2) If the books are not being published any more for
VC++, does this mean effectively VC++ programmers must
teach themselves things and learn from message posts at
codeguru.com etc? It seems like you already have to be
really smart at that language to learn new things through
self-teaching or peers.

Thank you again for your help.

Tony Jarvis
>-----Original Message-----
>Tony,
>
>I wouldn't advise you to get on the VC++ route, purely

for one reason.
>well win32s future as is looks bleak. Reasons being...

one it was a pain in
>the neck
>Programming in VB was easy but to do something with

win32s was not easy.
>VC++ was good and could do almost everything easily but

you had the problems
>of memory leak and lot of things based on weak pointer

references
>With .NET microsoft is essentially starting with a clean

slate... no
>complexities (not unusual ones)... and a common

framework for all
>languages...
>i would suggest C# for one reason.. being its 100%

pure... unlike VB or VC++
>..... things were not changed to make C# work with .NET
>plus its a great language.. with lots of features...

hybrid C++/ java sytax
>and VB like programming model. Not to forget it's

standardized
>
>Plus you will get all the resources you want....
>
>--
>Regards,
>
>HD
>
>"Tony Jarvis" <tonyjamesjarvis@hotmail.com> wrote in

message
>news:026801c3cc1e$38a812d0$a501280a@phx.gbl...
>> Hello, I have a few questions keeping me up at night.
>>
>>
>> 1) Most people learn a programming language because

they
>> work for a company that already uses it, so they are

told
>> to learn it. I am learning programming and want to

start
>> my own company one day around programming. Could you
>> please inform me how I should best evaluate each of the
>> Microsoft programming languages and decide which one is
>> best for me? I know that Visual Basic is very easy but
>> programs are larger and slower compared to Visual C++,
>> but that's as far as my knowledge goes.
>>
>> 2) I think I am tossing up between learning Visual C++
>> and C#. I already know beginning Visual C++ and MFC.
>> Unfortunately, Microsoft does not offer much Visual C++
>> training (only Managed Extensions which are far beyond

me
>> at the moment). If it turns out I want to learn Visual
>> C++ instead of C#, what other avenues are available to

me
>> to learn in depth Visual C++ skills without working

for a
>> programming company? I want to learn skills like how to
>> create set up programs, distribute updates and patches
>> etc. Things that go beyond a simple programming

concepts
>> book.
>>
>> 3) What learning do I need to do before attempting the
>> MSAD? I know there are prerequisite studies. How do I
>> obtain this programming experience?
>>
>> Any help you could provide would be invaluable to me.
>>
>> Thanking you in advance,
>>
>> Tony Jarvis

>
>
>.
>


Hermit Dave 12-28-2003 09:43 AM

Re: Programming language selection and training
 
Tony,

Well you either learn from you own experience or you learn from someone
else's.
Well i have worked on almost all languages... even java for a few days....
I do constantly read up on all sorts of sites... and i reckon if you chase
technology long enough... you can see were its all going ... atleast to some
extent... Well core drawbacks and difference between each are either
practical or from articles on msdn or other sites.... and learning a
language is only a small part of the whole... you need to learn and
appreciate how the framework works on the whole... just google for '.net
framework'... think as far as framework is concerned its so good that even
people who are opposed to anything microsoft says or does, are actually
adopting the framework..... www.go-mono.com

And c++ is not dead just yet... there were good many people who used to work
with MFC and ATL (consider this.... java was good to microsoft and IT in
general... it took away the lot who were around for a quick buck... and we
only had dedicated programmers for a while... so microsoft wont just drive
them away by forcing them to change or learn new languages...) and you still
have those areas plus you have the new managed extensions.... not something
i am comfortable with but the heck.... i have seen book on managed
extensions... have a look at
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...094641-6314036

well self learning isnt so bad.... okay maybe it takes longer... and there
are places like the newsgroups.... you have whole lot of dotnet and language
specific newgroups... plus you have msdn and other sites...
--
Regards,

HD

"Tony Jarvis" <tonyjamesjarvis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:020b01c3ccdc$416e3980$a301280a@phx.gbl...
> Thank you very much for your advice. I will take your
> advice and start with some introductory C#.
>
> Just 2 quick questions:
> 1) How do people know what language to choose? There are
> so many opinions and marketing spiel on the web, it is
> very hard to understand the core differences and
> benefits/drawbacks of each. How did you learn the
> differences? Or is there an article somewhere on the web
> you could point me to?
>
> 2) If the books are not being published any more for
> VC++, does this mean effectively VC++ programmers must
> teach themselves things and learn from message posts at
> codeguru.com etc? It seems like you already have to be
> really smart at that language to learn new things through
> self-teaching or peers.
>
> Thank you again for your help.
>
> Tony Jarvis
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Tony,
> >
> >I wouldn't advise you to get on the VC++ route, purely

> for one reason.
> >well win32s future as is looks bleak. Reasons being...

> one it was a pain in
> >the neck
> >Programming in VB was easy but to do something with

> win32s was not easy.
> >VC++ was good and could do almost everything easily but

> you had the problems
> >of memory leak and lot of things based on weak pointer

> references
> >With .NET microsoft is essentially starting with a clean

> slate... no
> >complexities (not unusual ones)... and a common

> framework for all
> >languages...
> >i would suggest C# for one reason.. being its 100%

> pure... unlike VB or VC++
> >..... things were not changed to make C# work with .NET
> >plus its a great language.. with lots of features...

> hybrid C++/ java sytax
> >and VB like programming model. Not to forget it's

> standardized
> >
> >Plus you will get all the resources you want....
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >
> >HD
> >
> >"Tony Jarvis" <tonyjamesjarvis@hotmail.com> wrote in

> message
> >news:026801c3cc1e$38a812d0$a501280a@phx.gbl...
> >> Hello, I have a few questions keeping me up at night.
> >>
> >>
> >> 1) Most people learn a programming language because

> they
> >> work for a company that already uses it, so they are

> told
> >> to learn it. I am learning programming and want to

> start
> >> my own company one day around programming. Could you
> >> please inform me how I should best evaluate each of the
> >> Microsoft programming languages and decide which one is
> >> best for me? I know that Visual Basic is very easy but
> >> programs are larger and slower compared to Visual C++,
> >> but that's as far as my knowledge goes.
> >>
> >> 2) I think I am tossing up between learning Visual C++
> >> and C#. I already know beginning Visual C++ and MFC.
> >> Unfortunately, Microsoft does not offer much Visual C++
> >> training (only Managed Extensions which are far beyond

> me
> >> at the moment). If it turns out I want to learn Visual
> >> C++ instead of C#, what other avenues are available to

> me
> >> to learn in depth Visual C++ skills without working

> for a
> >> programming company? I want to learn skills like how to
> >> create set up programs, distribute updates and patches
> >> etc. Things that go beyond a simple programming

> concepts
> >> book.
> >>
> >> 3) What learning do I need to do before attempting the
> >> MSAD? I know there are prerequisite studies. How do I
> >> obtain this programming experience?
> >>
> >> Any help you could provide would be invaluable to me.
> >>
> >> Thanking you in advance,
> >>
> >> Tony Jarvis

> >
> >
> >.
> >




Olav.NET 12-28-2003 10:35 PM

Re: Programming language selection and training
 
"Tony Jarvis" <tonyjamesjarvis@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<026801c3cc1e$38a812d0$a501280a@phx.gbl>...
> Hello, I have a few questions keeping me up at night.

Depends on what kind of marked your company will target.

For enterprise development, definitely .NET, but for say shareware
apps for home use perhaps VB6 or VC++ --- VC++ if you might go
x-platform.

Olav


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