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-   -   USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t596387-usb-host-versus-client-schematic-advice.html)

Paul 03-06-2008 01:32 AM

USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
Hi,

I'd like to modify the following Colibri Toradex Evaluation
schematic:

http://www.toradex.com/downloads/Col...ics_Rev2.1.pdf


Look at page 21 and 22.

If i only want to use 1 USB port, it will probably have to
be one of the "Host" ports, right? Like i should delete the
other ports (going to "USBC_N" and "USBC_P"), because
they are "Clients", right?

Also, I noticed the Host USB ports are the flatter type,
while the Clients look to be the fatter ones....why is this?



donald 03-06-2008 02:33 AM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
Paul wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to modify the following Colibri Toradex Evaluation
> schematic:
>
> http://www.toradex.com/downloads/Col...ics_Rev2.1.pdf
>
>
> Look at page 21 and 22.
>
> If i only want to use 1 USB port, it will probably have to
> be one of the "Host" ports, right? Like i should delete the


If you want a host port, yes, if you want a device port maybe.


> other ports (going to "USBC_N" and "USBC_P"), because
> they are "Clients", right?
>
> Also, I noticed the Host USB ports are the flatter type,
> while the Clients look to be the fatter ones....why is this?
>
>


I think you have more homework to do.

Have you used a PC before ??

Look at the PC in front of you.

Another gmail lost puppy.

Where do they keep coming from ??

donald

Paul 03-06-2008 03:20 AM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
Paul wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to modify the following Colibri Toradex Evaluation
> schematic:
>
> http://www.toradex.com/downloads/Col...ics_Rev2.1.pdf
>
>
> Look at page 21 and 22.
>
> If i only want to use 1 USB port, it will probably have to
> be one of the "Host" ports, right? Like i should delete the
> other ports (going to "USBC_N" and "USBC_P"), because
> they are "Clients", right?
>
> Also, I noticed the Host USB ports are the flatter type,
> while the Clients look to be the fatter ones....why is this?
>


Unzip the following package. It contains the USB 2.0 standard.
Open usb_20.pdf and flip to the first page of Chapter 6. There,
you'll see examples of upstream and downstream connectors.
Your very own computer, uses the flat connector, so you can
see an example in the I/O area on the back of your computer.

http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_092407.zip

If you want to be a USB designer, then reading these may
help as well.

http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/hs_usb_pdg_r1_0.pdf
http://www.usb.org/developers/whitep...therboards.pdf

Paul

Paul 03-06-2008 06:34 AM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
On Mar 5, 8:20�pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> > Hi,

>
> > � � � I'd like to modify the following Colibri Toradex Evaluation
> > schematic:

>
> >http://www.toradex.com/downloads/Col...d_Schematics_R...

>
> > � � � Look at page 21 and 22.

>
> > � � � If i only want to use 1 USB port, it will probably have to
> > be one of the "Host" ports, right? �Like i should delete the
> > other ports (going to "USBC_N" and "USBC_P"), because
> > they are "Clients", right?

>
> > � � �Also, I noticed the Host USB ports are the flatter type,
> > while the Clients look to be the fatter ones....why is this?

>
> Unzip the following package. It contains the USB 2.0 standard.
> Open usb_20.pdf and flip to the first page of Chapter 6. There,
> you'll see examples of upstream and downstream connectors.
> Your very own computer, uses the flat connector, so you can
> see an example in the I/O area on the back of your computer.
>
> http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_092407.zip
>
> If you want to be a USB designer, then reading these may
> help as well.
>
> http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/h...y_motherboards...
>
> � � Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Well, i don't really want to be a USB designer per se, i just
want to be able to hook this one up correctly.

So again, it looks like if i only want to have one USB port,
it will have to be a "Host" port, right? And this will be using
the flat connectors, right?

sycochkn 03-06-2008 06:58 AM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 

"Paul" <Quiller123@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8bbd3742-d987-41a8-adf6-8300388859c4@y77g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 5, 8:20?pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> > Hi,

>
> > ? ? ? I'd like to modify the following Colibri Toradex Evaluation
> > schematic:

>
> >http://www.toradex.com/downloads/Col...d_Schematics_R...

>
> > ? ? ? Look at page 21 and 22.

>
> > ? ? ? If i only want to use 1 USB port, it will probably have to
> > be one of the "Host" ports, right? ?Like i should delete the
> > other ports (going to "USBC_N" and "USBC_P"), because
> > they are "Clients", right?

>
> > ? ? ?Also, I noticed the Host USB ports are the flatter type,
> > while the Clients look to be the fatter ones....why is this?

>
> Unzip the following package. It contains the USB 2.0 standard.
> Open usb_20.pdf and flip to the first page of Chapter 6. There,
> you'll see examples of upstream and downstream connectors.
> Your very own computer, uses the flat connector, so you can
> see an example in the I/O area on the back of your computer.
>
> http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_092407.zip
>
> If you want to be a USB designer, then reading these may
> help as well.
>
> http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/h...y_motherboards...
>
> ? ? Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Well, i don't really want to be a USB designer per se, i just
want to be able to hook this one up correctly.

So again, it looks like if i only want to have one USB port,
it will have to be a "Host" port, right? And this will be using
the flat connectors, right?

If you want to hook usb devices to it use a host port if you want to use it
as a usb device use the other. All of the different types of usb connectors
are functionally identical. Some are just smaller.

Bob



Paul 03-06-2008 04:04 PM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
Paul wrote:
> On Mar 5, 8:20�pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> � � � I'd like to modify the following Colibri Toradex Evaluation
>>> schematic:
>>> http://www.toradex.com/downloads/Col...d_Schematics_R...
>>> � � � Look at page 21 and 22.
>>> � � � If i only want to use 1 USB port, it will probably have to
>>> be one of the "Host" ports, right? �Like i should delete the
>>> other ports (going to "USBC_N" and "USBC_P"), because
>>> they are "Clients", right?
>>> � � �Also, I noticed the Host USB ports are the flatter type,
>>> while the Clients look to be the fatter ones....why is this?

>> Unzip the following package. It contains the USB 2.0 standard.
>> Open usb_20.pdf and flip to the first page of Chapter 6. There,
>> you'll see examples of upstream and downstream connectors.
>> Your very own computer, uses the flat connector, so you can
>> see an example in the I/O area on the back of your computer.
>>
>> http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_092407.zip
>>
>> If you want to be a USB designer, then reading these may
>> help as well.
>>
>> http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/h...y_motherboards...
>>
>> � � Paul- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> Well, i don't really want to be a USB designer per se, i just
> want to be able to hook this one up correctly.
>
> So again, it looks like if i only want to have one USB port,
> it will have to be a "Host" port, right? And this will be using
> the flat connectors, right?


The purpose of the flat connector, is to help you plug the
right kind of device into the connector. If this design is
intended to be connected to USB peripherals, then the flat
connector seems appropriate. But you should really
read the USB specification, at least the section I
pointed to. You need to understand the concept of upstream
and downstream, and why the connectors are, what they are.

Paul

Andrew Smallshaw 03-06-2008 04:24 PM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
On 2008-03-06, Paul <Quiller123@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, i don't really want to be a USB designer per se, i just
> want to be able to hook this one up correctly.
>
> So again, it looks like if i only want to have one USB port,
> it will have to be a "Host" port, right? And this will be using
> the flat connectors, right?


Without wishing to denigrate your abilities, it sounds to me as if
you are in way over your head. I strongly suspect you are wasting
your time trying to implement whatever it is you want to accomplish.
USB is _not_ a trivial thing to implement even for experienced
engineers, and it seems to me that you are lacking knowledge I would
expect even from a vaguely experienced end user.

The two styles of connector are for different devices. You can't
say that you need one or the other based on the fact you only need
one. The two ends of a USB lead are not equivalent. The one
nearest to the computer is essentially the one with all the control
and is functionally as well as mechanically different to the one
nearest the peripheral.

The 'A' plug is the rectangular one with the contacts all on the
same plane that plugs into either the computer itself or to a hub
that is in turn connected to the computer (possibly through another
hub). This is the 'upstream' connector as connections in that
direction ultimately go in the direction of the computer. The 'B'
plug is squarer, with two rows of contacts. These all point
downstream, away from the computer and towards the peripherals.
Again, this is not merely a mechanical difference - the two sockets
reflect differences in the role each device expects to play in the
USB connection, essentially whether it is acting as the computer
or a peripheral.

Which connector your device needs depends on what it is doing. If
it is to be plugged into a computer and work as a peripheral it
needs a 'B' socket. If it is to replace a computer and control a
devices, whether it be a printer, flash drive, keyboard or whatever,
it needs an 'A' socket.

As I said in my opening paragraph, issues such as these suggest a
complete lack of familiarity with USB. Take look at Wikipedia's
page on USB. Like many Wikipedia pages, it's a mixed bag that
mixes things end users should know with a few random engineering
topics thrown in for no apparent reason, but you need to understand
pretty much _everything_ on that page and much more besides to
successfully implement USB.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org

Paul 03-06-2008 05:33 PM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
On Mar 6, 9:24*am, Andrew Smallshaw <andr...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> On 2008-03-06, Paul <Quiller...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > * * *Well, i don't really want to be a USB designer per se, i just
> > want to be able to hook this one up correctly.

>
> > * * *So again, it looks like if i only want to have one USB port,
> > it will have to be a "Host" port, right? *And this will be using
> > the flat connectors, right?

>
> Without wishing to denigrate your abilities, it sounds to me as if
> you are in way over your head. *I strongly suspect you are wasting
> your time trying to implement whatever it is you want to accomplish.
> USB is _not_ a trivial thing to implement even for experienced
> engineers, and it seems to me that you are lacking knowledge I would
> expect even from a vaguely experienced end user.
>


Errr....Maybe that's why I'm asking???!!

I'm a total newbie on this subject, of course, but if you
cannot be helpful without making yourself feel better by telling
me how ignorant I am on this subject, then F*** Off!!




> The two styles of connector are for different devices. *You can't
> say that you need one or the other based on the fact you only need
> one. *The two ends of a USB lead are not equivalent. *The one
> nearest to the computer is essentially the one with all the control
> and is functionally as well as mechanically different to the one
> nearest the peripheral. *
>
> The 'A' plug is the rectangular one with the contacts all on the
> same plane that plugs into either the computer itself or to a hub
> that is in turn connected to the computer (possibly through another
> hub). *This is the 'upstream' connector as connections in that
> direction ultimately go in the direction of the computer. *The 'B'
> plug is squarer, with two rows of contacts. *These all point
> downstream, away from the computer and towards the peripherals.
> Again, this is not merely a mechanical difference - the two sockets
> reflect differences in the role each device expects to play in the
> USB connection, essentially whether it is acting as the computer
> or a peripheral.
>
> Which connector your device needs depends on what it is doing. *If
> it is to be plugged into a computer and work as a peripheral it
> needs a 'B' socket. *If it is to replace a computer and control a
> devices, whether it be a printer, flash drive, keyboard or whatever,
> it needs an 'A' socket.
>
> As I said in my opening paragraph, issues such as these suggest a
> complete lack of familiarity with USB. *Take look at Wikipedia's
> page on USB. *Like many Wikipedia pages, it's a mixed bag that
> mixes things end users should know with a few random engineering
> topics thrown in for no apparent reason, but you need to understand
> pretty much _everything_ on that page and much more besides to
> successfully implement USB.
>


B.S.!

From a wiring perspective, it's only 4 wires, with 2 pull-up
resistors. Can't be too difficult....

Paul 03-06-2008 08:29 PM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
On Mar 6, 9:24*am, Andrew Smallshaw <andr...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> On 2008-03-06, Paul <Quiller...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > * * *Well, i don't really want to be a USB designer per se, i just
> > want to be able to hook this one up correctly.

>
> > * * *So again, it looks like if i only want to have one USB port,
> > it will have to be a "Host" port, right? *And this will be using
> > the flat connectors, right?

>
> Without wishing to denigrate your abilities, it sounds to me as if
> you are in way over your head. *I strongly suspect you are wasting
> your time trying to implement whatever it is you want to accomplish.
> USB is _not_ a trivial thing to implement even for experienced
> engineers, and it seems to me that you are lacking knowledge I would
> expect even from a vaguely experienced end user.
>
> The two styles of connector are for different devices. *You can't
> say that you need one or the other based on the fact you only need
> one. *The two ends of a USB lead are not equivalent. *The one
> nearest to the computer is essentially the one with all the control
> and is functionally as well as mechanically different to the one
> nearest the peripheral. *
>
> The 'A' plug is the rectangular one with the contacts all on the
> same plane that plugs into either the computer itself or to a hub
> that is in turn connected to the computer (possibly through another
> hub). *This is the 'upstream' connector as connections in that
> direction ultimately go in the direction of the computer. *The 'B'
> plug is squarer, with two rows of contacts. *These all point
> downstream, away from the computer and towards the peripherals.
> Again, this is not merely a mechanical difference - the two sockets
> reflect differences in the role each device expects to play in the
> USB connection, essentially whether it is acting as the computer
> or a peripheral.
>
> Which connector your device needs depends on what it is doing. *If
> it is to be plugged into a computer and work as a peripheral it
> needs a 'B' socket. *If it is to replace a computer and control a
> devices, whether it be a printer, flash drive, keyboard or whatever,
> it needs an 'A' socket.
>


Again, more B. S.! The Type A and B connectors perform
the same function, then are just different physically!

Maybe your name is really Andrew Smallbrain.....

Paul 03-06-2008 08:33 PM

Re: USB Host versus Client Schematic Advice?
 
On Mar 5, 11:58*pm, "sycochkn" <sycoc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Paul" <Quiller...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8bbd3742-d987-41a8-adf6-8300388859c4@y77g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 5, 8:20?pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Paul wrote:
> > > Hi,

>
> > > ? ? ? I'd like to modify the following Colibri Toradex Evaluation
> > > schematic:

>
> > >http://www.toradex.com/downloads/Col...d_Schematics_R....

>
> > > ? ? ? Look at page 21 and 22.

>
> > > ? ? ? If i only want to use 1 USB port, it will probably have to
> > > be one of the "Host" ports, right? ?Like i should delete the
> > > other ports (going to "USBC_N" and "USBC_P"), because
> > > they are "Clients", right?

>
> > > ? ? ?Also, I noticed the Host USB ports are the flatter type,
> > > while the Clients look to be the fatter ones....why is this?

>
> > Unzip the following package. It contains the USB 2.0 standard.
> > Open usb_20.pdf and flip to the first page of Chapter 6. There,
> > you'll see examples of upstream and downstream connectors.
> > Your very own computer, uses the flat connector, so you can
> > see an example in the I/O area on the back of your computer.

>
> >http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_092407.zip

>
> > If you want to be a USB designer, then reading these may
> > help as well.

>
> >http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/h...http://www.usb........

>
> > ? ? Paul- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -

>
> * * *Well, i don't really want to be a USB designer per se, i just
> want to be able to hook this one up correctly.
>
> * * *So again, it looks like if i only want to have one USB port,
> it will have to be a "Host" port, right? *And this will be using
> the flat connectors, right?
>
> If you want to hook usb devices to it use a host port if you want to use it
> as a usb device use the other. All of the different types of usb connectors
> are functionally identical. Some are just smaller.
>
> Bob- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



Thanks Bob.

Also, this microcontroller has the new "On-The-Go"
standard, so i believe it can be either a peripheral device,
or a host.

So maybe we will really be both Host and Peripheral
in this case.


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