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charles.debon@yahoo.com 02-11-2008 08:33 PM

XML Alternatives
 
XML was designed for text documents and publishing. If you are
considering XML for general data (serialization, configuration etc.) I
would like to invite you to a page about xml alternatives:

http://www.geocities.com/charles.debon/

Any comments are invited.

Joseph Kesselman 02-11-2008 09:54 PM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
charles.debon@yahoo.com wrote:
> XML was designed for text documents and publishing.


Not so. SGML was, certainly. But XML, especially modern XML with schemas
and tools such as XQuery, was very definitely designed to be a general
data-markup language.

Whether you think it's a good choice for that purpose is a different
question. I consider it a very good choise as a published interchange
format. Whether it's the right choice for application-internal purposes
is a nuanced question, in part because there's the question of whether
you're talking specifically about XML syntax or the XML Infoset data
model it represents, and in part because the application's own needs
become relevant.



--
Joe Kesselman / Beware the fury of a patient man. -- John Dryden

charles.debon@yahoo.com 02-12-2008 07:27 AM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
> Not so. SGML was, certainly. But XML, especially modern XML with schemas
> and tools such as XQuery, was very definitely designed to be a general
> data-markup language. [...]


I know it is disputable. I only want to make people know that there
are some alternatives, which can be better at least at SOME
circumstances.

usenet@tech-know-ware.com 02-12-2008 11:20 AM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
On 11 Feb, 20:33, charles.de...@yahoo.com wrote:
> XML was designed for text documents and publishing. If you are
> considering XML for general data (serialization, configuration etc.) I
> would like to invite you to a page about xml alternatives:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/charles.debon/
>
> Any comments are invited.


FWIW - I developed a data language called Lumas. You can find out
more about it at:

http://lumas.org

Encoded messages look a bit similar to Harpoon, although Lumas lists
are of the form:

foo = 1,2,3,4,5

It also has a C-like message definition langauge (or schema definition
language if you prefer), which I think most other alternatives are
currently missing.

Regards,

Pete Cordell
Codalogic
Visit http://www.codalogic.com/lmx/ for XML C++ data binding

Joseph Kesselman 02-12-2008 02:56 PM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
charles.debon@yahoo.com wrote:
> I know it is disputable. I only want to make people know that there
> are some alternatives, which can be better at least at SOME
> circumstances.


Folks will take you more seriously if you don't start out with a
"disputable" statement.

--
Joe Kesselman / Beware the fury of a patient man. -- John Dryden

edday2006@gmail.com 02-12-2008 03:25 PM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
On Feb 11, 3:33 pm, charles.de...@yahoo.com wrote:
> XML was designed for text documents and publishing. If you are
> considering XML for general data (serialization, configuration etc.) I
> would like to invite you to a page about xml alternatives:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/charles.debon/
>
> Any comments are invited.


Why is ASN.1 not on your list?

http://asn1.elibel.tm.fr/

Ed Day
Objective Systems, Inc.

charles.debon@yahoo.com 02-13-2008 08:34 AM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
On 12 Lut, 12:20, use...@tech-know-ware.com wrote:

> FWIW - I developed a data language called Lumas. You can find out
> more about it at:
> http://lumas.org


I find it interesting and added it to the list.
I will update the "charateristics" in several days or earlier
if you send me a text I can insert there.
Thank you for information.

--
Charles Debon

charles.debon@yahoo.com 02-13-2008 08:37 AM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
On 12 Lut, 16:25, edday2...@gmail.com wrote:

> Why is ASN.1 not on your list?
>
> http://asn1.elibel.tm.fr/


After spending 15 minutes on the webpage I couldn't find any sample.
Is it really a text-based data language or only a language for
protocol
specification? I will have a deeper look later and will consider
adding
it to my list, but so far I haven't been convinced that this is one of
languages my page is about. Tell me if I am wrong.

--
Charles Debon

usenet@tech-know-ware.com 02-13-2008 11:31 AM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
On 13 Feb, 08:34, charles.de...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On 12 Lut, 12:20, use...@tech-know-ware.com wrote:
>
> > FWIW - I developed a data language called Lumas. *You can find out
> > more about it at:
> > * *http://lumas.org

>
> I find it interesting and added it to the list.
> I will update the "charateristics" in several days or earlier
> if you send me a text I can insert there.
> Thank you for information.


Thanks.

In terms of Characteristics, something like:

"Tree structured data in a compact text encoding, that has a message
specification language that can be used to check message validity."

It does duplicate bits of the other text, so feel free to edit or
ignore the suggestion as you see fit. In fact, I would be interested
to see how you summarize it :-)

HTH,

Pete Cordell
Codalogic
Visit http://www.codalogic.com/lmx/ for XML C++ data binding



edday2006@gmail.com 02-14-2008 02:00 PM

Re: XML Alternatives
 
On Feb 13, 3:37 am, charles.de...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On 12 Lut, 16:25, edday2...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Why is ASN.1 not on your list?

>
> >http://asn1.elibel.tm.fr/

>
> After spending 15 minutes on the webpage I couldn't find any sample.
> Is it really a text-based data language or only a language for
> protocol
> specification? I will have a deeper look later and will consider
> adding
> it to my list, but so far I haven't been convinced that this is one of
> languages my page is about. Tell me if I am wrong.
>
> --
> Charles Debon


It is the equivalent of XML schema in the XML world. Most uses are
for the creation of binary messages, but XML documents can be created
based on the schema as well. Your criteria above does not state that
the alternative has to be text-based. You mention an alternative for
serialization of data which is what this describes, albeit in binary
form (which some people think is a good thing).

Ed


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