Velocity Reviews

Velocity Reviews (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/index.php)
-   NZ Computing (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/f47-nz-computing.html)
-   -   My experiences with Linux of recently. (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t572894-my-experiences-with-linux-of-recently.html)

Waylon Kenning 11-11-2004 07:07 AM

My experiences with Linux of recently.
 
Like the coming of summer, I regularly get seduced by the virtues of
Linux, and decide to try it for myself. Here's my experiences.

Installation:
I'm using K12LTSP 4.1.0 based on the Fedora Core 2 code, because it
contains a lot of educational software, and I'm doing research into
using it in schools.The installer looks lovely. Fedora's looking
really professional. My only concern is still being able to select
packages from multiple discs, and then when installing if you don't
have those discs, you have no option except to reboot.

So a good idea seems to be dual booting between Fedora Core 2 and
Windows XP (Fedora users know what I'm about to say next). Well, that
dreadful dual boot error that doesn't allow Windows XP to start
occurred (the hard drive geometry error). OK, no Windows XP. You may
say that Windows XP wont even do dual booting with Linux, however, I'd
rather not say something and not do it, than say I do something and
still not do it.

Usage:
Always my enthusiasm of Linux wanes when I need to connect to the
internet because my controllerless modem needs drivers above and
beyond those which come with Linux distributions (Rockwell PCI56kRVP+
modem). However, since last time I've looked, there is now a serious
attempt and getting modem drivers available for my modem. So I look at
the Linuxant site (http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/). Here they
proceed to charge me for my modem drivers. While this is no jig
against Linux, this is a jig against hardware manufacturers to think a
little about alternate operating systems. Even so, I'm not paying
$15US which equates to more than the price of a new modem
(http://www.azatech.co.nz/azanew/main/nt.asp?make=116).

One advantage of Linux is the wealth of software that comes with
normal distributions. So I decide to install additional software from
the distribution cds. This proceeds relatively painlessly until
Automount stops working. That's right, no more CD on the desktop
appears, and no amount of pressing the eject button on the CDROM will
allow the tray to appear. Using my rudimentary knowledge of command
line things, I type "umount /dev/cdrom" followed by "eject" and repeat
every time the installer wants to install a new program. Which BTW,
doesn't install all programs on disc 1, then programs on disc 2 etc...
but installs a couple of programs on disc 1, then some on disc 2, then
a couple more on disc 1 etc... The net result is that I typed the
eject command about 15 times. I wasn't terribly impressed. However,
upgrading those programs installed is a breeze by simply typing "yum
upgrade" at a command line, which pretty much upgrades your whole OS
to bleeding edge. Which is good. I do wish windows had this.

In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better. A
"fixmbr" and "fixboot" later at the recovery console, XP still wont
boot. A reinstall later XP still wont boot. A fresh install on the
same partition later, XP still wont boot. A fresh install later on a
freshly formatted partition, XP boots. Hurrah! However, from there the
rest of the installation is a breeze. It even configures my modem for
me, and sets up a dial up connection:)

So linux, it was nice knowing you, I'll talk to you again in 12
months, and we'll do this little dance again. Hopefully by that time,
I'll have broadband, so my results may vary.
--
Regards,
Waylon Kenning.

1st Year B.I.T. WelTec

steve 11-11-2004 08:08 AM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 
Waylon Kenning wrote:

> In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
> the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.


I'm not sure it's Linux that failed.

......If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :-)

--
Distributed Computing Projects:
SETI at Home
http://boinc.mundayweb.com/seti2/stats.php?userID=1248
ClimatePrediction.net
http://boinc.mundayweb.com/cpdn/stats.php?userID=334

Mr Scebe 11-11-2004 04:57 PM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 

"steve" <steve@nevernowut.org.nz> wrote in message
news:2vgkvoF2lml34U4@uni-berlin.de...
> Waylon Kenning wrote:
>
> > In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
> > the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.

>
> I'm not sure it's Linux that failed.
>
> .....If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
> have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :-)


Of course, you can have any colour as long as it's black! I thought this
Linux was a superior being to XP, not some crippled wannabie?

--
Mr Scebe
Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
~Sean Connery in "The Rock"



Peter 11-11-2004 05:59 PM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 
Waylon Kenning wrote:
> Like the coming of summer, I regularly get seduced by the virtues of
> Linux, and decide to try it for myself. Here's my experiences.
> I'm using K12LTSP 4.1.0 based on the Fedora Core 2 code, because it
> contains a lot of educational software, and I'm doing research into
> using it in schools.The installer looks lovely. Fedora's looking
> really professional.


Installing an OS requires a bit more understanding / skill than just using a
computer. This applies with any OS; Windows, Linux, whatever. You might
find it easier to get someone knowledgable about these things to install
the OS for you. Or buy a PC with Linux ready installed - there are a few
places that do this if you look around.

I don't have any training in IT, but have installed many Linux systems. A
few years ago, I moved from Redhat to Mandrake because of difficulties with
winmodems. You might find it easier to get the modem going in Mandrake.

Anyway, isn't Fedora the development version of Redhat? That would mean it
definitely isn't for beginners.

HTH

Peter


Dave - Dave.net.nz 11-11-2004 07:04 PM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 
steve wrote:
>>In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
>>the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.


> I'm not sure it's Linux that failed.
> .....If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
> have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :-)


Why "SHOULD (he) have"?
Who are you to force hardware choices on him?

Chris Hope 11-11-2004 07:09 PM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 
Mr Scebe wrote:

>
> "steve" <steve@nevernowut.org.nz> wrote in message
> news:2vgkvoF2lml34U4@uni-berlin.de...
>> Waylon Kenning wrote:
>>
>> > In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
>> > the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.

>>
>> I'm not sure it's Linux that failed.
>>
>> .....If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
>> have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :-)

>
> Of course, you can have any colour as long as it's black! I thought this
> Linux was a superior being to XP, not some crippled wannabie?


There are good things and bad things about Linux, just as there are good
things and bad things about Windows and many other operating systems.

One of the trickiest things with Linux tends to be installing hardware
because the manufacturers often don't make drivers for Linux (or other
non-Windows operating systems) because the market is still small, and it
can be difficult (or impossible) to find 3rd party drivers on the Internet.

Winmodems are a particular problem because they are software modems:

"A Winmodem is a software modem designed to work with the Microsoft Windows
operating system. A traditional modem uses hardware to perform its tasks,
but Winmodems perform their key tasks with software. This makes them
smaller and cheaper to produce, but it also means they cannot be easily
used on other operating systems because the driver support requires far
more effort to produce." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winmodem

And it's not just Linux that has problems with winmodems. I've had all sorts
of trouble in the past when trying to reinstall Windows from scratch and
getting winmodems to work. In one instance I had to resort to buying a
proper modem because it just wouldn't install.

--
Chris Hope - The Electric Toolbox - http://www.electrictoolbox.com/

tatties 11-11-2004 09:17 PM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 

"Dave - Dave.net.nz" <davenetnz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2vhrd1F2mmquiU1@uni-berlin.de...
> steve wrote:
>>>In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
>>>the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.

>
>> I'm not sure it's Linux that failed. .....If you bought a hardware modem
>> in the first place.....as you SHOULD
>> have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :-)

>
> Why "SHOULD (he) have"?
> Who are you to force hardware choices on him?



Because it would work ?
Tough choice ;-)
Linux will really suffer without him, but if he can't figure out **** like
this he will have no chance getting his head around LTSP.
He made his choice, he bought the modem, the modem manufacturer told him
that the modem was made for Windows and included Windows software only. It
wouldn't work on Windows without that driver, ie without the driver it is
not a modem, only a component of one.
He could have bought the binary driver off a third party developer, or
chosen another type of $39.95 Winmodem which included software for Linux.
Intel or or Lucent maybe.
Several distros bundle the Conexant driver, but its not an open source
driver.



Bok 11-11-2004 10:10 PM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 
Waylon Kenning wrote:
> Like the coming of summer, I regularly get seduced by the virtues of
> Linux, and decide to try it for myself. Here's my experiences.

[ snip ]
> So linux, it was nice knowing you, I'll talk to you again in 12
> months, and we'll do this little dance again. Hopefully by that time,
> I'll have broadband, so my results may vary.


Waylon,

Next time you try linux I would recommend starting with one of the Live
CD distros such as Knoppix to verify support for your hardware. It's
quick and painless and will save you time. If your hardware is not fully
supported under Knoppix, it's likely you will have difficulty getting a
standard distro installed and working.

The [lack of] winmodem support on linux is perhaps the biggest stumbling
blocks for windows users attempting to try out linux.

The dual boot issue you mentioned could almost certainly be resolved
with a bit of effort and infroamtion. I've multi-booted various windows
O/S from NT/2k/XP with various different linux distros and have never
encountered an issue that cannot be resolved. Any linux user group will
be able to help out with this.

Bret 11-11-2004 10:50 PM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:10:52 +1300, Bok wrote:

> The dual boot issue you mentioned could almost certainly be resolved
> with a bit of effort and infroamtion.


Changing the Bios to LBA on the boot drive would have fixed it.


tatties 11-11-2004 10:54 PM

Re: My experiences with Linux of recently.
 

"Waylon Kenning" <use.the.reply.to.header@this.is.fake> wrote in message
news:lr16p0p1uh0orkdgnqs62hco6qc33dhal6@4ax.com...
> Like the coming of summer, I regularly get seduced by the virtues of
> Linux, and decide to try it for myself. Here's my experiences.
>
> Installation:
> I'm using K12LTSP 4.1.0 based on the Fedora Core 2 code, because it
> contains a lot of educational software, and I'm doing research into
> using it in schools.The installer looks lovely. Fedora's looking
> really professional. My only concern is still being able to select
> packages from multiple discs, and then when installing if you don't
> have those discs, you have no option except to reboot.
>
> So a good idea seems to be dual booting between Fedora Core 2 and
> Windows XP (Fedora users know what I'm about to say next). Well, that
> dreadful dual boot error that doesn't allow Windows XP to start
> occurred (the hard drive geometry error). OK, no Windows XP. You may
> say that Windows XP wont even do dual booting with Linux, however, I'd
> rather not say something and not do it, than say I do something and
> still not do it.
>


You could fix it
http://www.fedorafaq.org/#nodualboot
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedor.../msg00908.html




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:08 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.