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-   -   Telecom Claim - True or False? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t571457-telecom-claim-true-or-false.html)

Matthew Poole 07-22-2004 09:03 AM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 
In article <1090489444.852551@radsrv1.tranzpeer.net>, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote:
*SNIP*
>Anyway if the experts could just state if it's possible for a modem to dial
>out to another number while already connected to the number of an ISP as the
>person at Telecom claimed, thanks.
>

Absolutely not. It must first disconnect you, then establish a new
connection.
Ever tried making a phone call while someone else is already on the
phone? It doesn't work terribly well. Modems are no different. They
have no super powers to work around the limitations imposed by the PSTN
- No dial tone, no phone call.

--
Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
"Veni, vidi, velcro...
I came, I saw, I stuck around"

My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet

E. Scrooge 07-22-2004 09:44 AM

Telecom Claim - True or False?
 
The person I spoke to at Telecom today claimed that trojan dialer could dial
out to another country while the modem was aready in use connected to a
local ISP.
She didn't know it could but still claimed it can do it.

This is on dial up. I don't see how the modem can dial out when it's
already connected in use. Though a dialer could dial out was a computer was
on but off the Net leaving the modem free for another dial up program.

What happened is on my Telecom account it shows a call to the Cook Islands -
of course such calls are well known among other places that trojans use.
Odd thing is it only showed the one call which was back on the 20th June,
and only lasted for a minute which came to $1.45. No more such calls since
then and none showing today at Telecom from the date they sent the account.
It's possible the old PC did pick up something, as the homepage was changed
and locked to Microsoft. Adaware and some other program cleaned the crap
out of the registry.
Bit odd how the call wasn't to a high charge number and didn't last longer
than 1minute 8 seconds. The woman from Telecom claimed she made a 5 second
call to her daughter in Australia LOL. I said her daughter must've been
right next to the phone to answer it and only take 5 seconds for the call.
I also pointed out that it took a lot longer than a minute just to get
through to Telecom, it must've taken close half an hour all up. The small
bill to the Cook Islands has been wiped, but if it happens again I get
charged. Telecom wouldn't send out a new invoice, but told me to just cross
the charge out on the original one I've got. Even the Post Office only goes
by the charge on the invoice, there's no computer check on it when they scan
the bar code. Like adjustments the Power Companies can make, Telecom should
send out a new invoice to be perfectly legal instead of having me alter the
thing.

Anyway if the experts could just state if it's possible for a modem to dial
out to another number while already connected to the number of an ISP as the
person at Telecom claimed, thanks.

Cheers,
E. Scrooge



Collector 07-22-2004 10:06 AM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 
E. Scrooge said the following on 22/07/2004 21:44:

> The person I spoke to at Telecom today claimed that trojan dialer could dial
> out to another country while the modem was aready in use connected to a
> local ISP.
> She didn't know it could but still claimed it can do it.
>
> This is on dial up. I don't see how the modem can dial out when it's
> already connected in use. Though a dialer could dial out was a computer was
> on but off the Net leaving the modem free for another dial up program.
>
> What happened is on my Telecom account it shows a call to the Cook Islands -
> of course such calls are well known among other places that trojans use.
> Odd thing is it only showed the one call which was back on the 20th June,
> and only lasted for a minute which came to $1.45. No more such calls since
> then and none showing today at Telecom from the date they sent the account.
> It's possible the old PC did pick up something, as the homepage was changed
> and locked to Microsoft. Adaware and some other program cleaned the crap
> out of the registry.
> Bit odd how the call wasn't to a high charge number and didn't last longer
> than 1minute 8 seconds. The woman from Telecom claimed she made a 5 second
> call to her daughter in Australia LOL. I said her daughter must've been
> right next to the phone to answer it and only take 5 seconds for the call.
> I also pointed out that it took a lot longer than a minute just to get
> through to Telecom, it must've taken close half an hour all up. The small
> bill to the Cook Islands has been wiped, but if it happens again I get
> charged. Telecom wouldn't send out a new invoice, but told me to just cross
> the charge out on the original one I've got. Even the Post Office only goes
> by the charge on the invoice, there's no computer check on it when they scan
> the bar code. Like adjustments the Power Companies can make, Telecom should
> send out a new invoice to be perfectly legal instead of having me alter the
> thing.
>
> Anyway if the experts could just state if it's possible for a modem to dial
> out to another number while already connected to the number of an ISP as the
> person at Telecom claimed, thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> E. Scrooge
>
>

A modem of the common household variety cannot handle more than one call
at a time. That said how ever, spyware can hand up the line and silently
(speaker off) dial another number.


Jason M 07-22-2004 10:56 AM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:44:03 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
(*sling)> wrote:

>What happened is on my Telecom account it shows a call to the Cook Islands -
>of course such calls are well known among other places that trojans use.

--snip--
>The small bill to the Cook Islands has been wiped, but if it happens again I get
>charged. Telecom wouldn't send out a new invoice, but told me to just cross
>the charge out on the original one I've got.


Was the number Cook Islands 0068 238872?
I know an elderly couple who have had a dialler call that number at a
cost of hundreds of dollars, and Telstra have insisted that they pay
or they will list them on Baycorp.
All the searches I have done indicate that people have just paid the
bill and put a toll-bar on their phoneline.

I don't understand why the owner of the number in the Cook Islands
cannot be traced and prosecuted for fraud, and Telstra along with
them. If the Cook Islands govt doesn't want to do that then NZ should
stop sending them $12 million in aid each year.


Patrick Dunford 07-22-2004 11:00 AM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 
In article <2m9htcFja8v3U1@uni-berlin.de>, collectorNZ@2junkit.com
says...
> E. Scrooge said the following on 22/07/2004 21:44:
>
> > The person I spoke to at Telecom today claimed that trojan dialer could dial
> > out to another country while the modem was aready in use connected to a
> > local ISP.
> > She didn't know it could but still claimed it can do it.
> >
> > This is on dial up. I don't see how the modem can dial out when it's
> > already connected in use. Though a dialer could dial out was a computer was
> > on but off the Net leaving the modem free for another dial up program.
> >
> > What happened is on my Telecom account it shows a call to the Cook Islands -
> > of course such calls are well known among other places that trojans use.
> > Odd thing is it only showed the one call which was back on the 20th June,
> > and only lasted for a minute which came to $1.45. No more such calls since
> > then and none showing today at Telecom from the date they sent the account.
> > It's possible the old PC did pick up something, as the homepage was changed
> > and locked to Microsoft. Adaware and some other program cleaned the crap
> > out of the registry.
> > Bit odd how the call wasn't to a high charge number and didn't last longer
> > than 1minute 8 seconds. The woman from Telecom claimed she made a 5 second
> > call to her daughter in Australia LOL. I said her daughter must've been
> > right next to the phone to answer it and only take 5 seconds for the call.
> > I also pointed out that it took a lot longer than a minute just to get
> > through to Telecom, it must've taken close half an hour all up. The small
> > bill to the Cook Islands has been wiped, but if it happens again I get
> > charged. Telecom wouldn't send out a new invoice, but told me to just cross
> > the charge out on the original one I've got. Even the Post Office only goes
> > by the charge on the invoice, there's no computer check on it when they scan
> > the bar code. Like adjustments the Power Companies can make, Telecom should
> > send out a new invoice to be perfectly legal instead of having me alter the
> > thing.
> >
> > Anyway if the experts could just state if it's possible for a modem to dial
> > out to another number while already connected to the number of an ISP as the
> > person at Telecom claimed, thanks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > E. Scrooge
> >
> >

> A modem of the common household variety cannot handle more than one call
> at a time. That said how ever, spyware can hand up the line and silently
> (speaker off) dial another number.


And this is almost certainly what they do. I recently cleaned up a
machine for some friends, one of the complaints was they would be
disconnected often while on the internet. The dialler must have been
doing this when it was making the calls to Diego Garcia.

E. Scrooge 07-22-2004 11:23 AM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 

"Jason M" <jmamfjd@very.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40ff9afd.45325032@news.akl.ihugultra.co.nz...
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:44:03 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
> (*sling)> wrote:
>
> >What happened is on my Telecom account it shows a call to the Cook

Islands -
> >of course such calls are well known among other places that trojans use.

> --snip--
> >The small bill to the Cook Islands has been wiped, but if it happens

again I get
> >charged. Telecom wouldn't send out a new invoice, but told me to just

cross
> >the charge out on the original one I've got.

>
> Was the number Cook Islands 0068 238872?
> I know an elderly couple who have had a dialler call that number at a
> cost of hundreds of dollars, and Telstra have insisted that they pay
> or they will list them on Baycorp.
> All the searches I have done indicate that people have just paid the
> bill and put a toll-bar on their phoneline.
>
> I don't understand why the owner of the number in the Cook Islands
> cannot be traced and prosecuted for fraud, and Telstra along with
> them. If the Cook Islands govt doesn't want to do that then NZ should
> stop sending them $12 million in aid each year.


That's the number all right. I'm sure if I still had it the bill would've
been a lot more than $1.45 - especially if it could call out while the modem
was in use on the Net.
Since it's a malicious phone number telecom should be able to block that
number, same with Telstra for their customers.

E. Scrooge



E. Scrooge 07-22-2004 11:35 AM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 

"Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b6a6566527336a5989e55@news.paradise.net. nz...
> In article <2m9htcFja8v3U1@uni-berlin.de>, collectorNZ@2junkit.com
> says...
> > E. Scrooge said the following on 22/07/2004 21:44:
> >
> > > The person I spoke to at Telecom today claimed that trojan dialer

could dial
> > > out to another country while the modem was aready in use connected to

a
> > > local ISP.
> > > She didn't know it could but still claimed it can do it.
> > >
> > > This is on dial up. I don't see how the modem can dial out when it's
> > > already connected in use. Though a dialer could dial out was a

computer was
> > > on but off the Net leaving the modem free for another dial up program.
> > >
> > > What happened is on my Telecom account it shows a call to the Cook

Islands -
> > > of course such calls are well known among other places that trojans

use.
> > > Odd thing is it only showed the one call which was back on the 20th

June,
> > > and only lasted for a minute which came to $1.45. No more such calls

since
> > > then and none showing today at Telecom from the date they sent the

account.
> > > It's possible the old PC did pick up something, as the homepage was

changed
> > > and locked to Microsoft. Adaware and some other program cleaned the

crap
> > > out of the registry.
> > > Bit odd how the call wasn't to a high charge number and didn't last

longer
> > > than 1minute 8 seconds. The woman from Telecom claimed she made a 5

second
> > > call to her daughter in Australia LOL. I said her daughter must've

been
> > > right next to the phone to answer it and only take 5 seconds for the

call.
> > > I also pointed out that it took a lot longer than a minute just to get
> > > through to Telecom, it must've taken close half an hour all up. The

small
> > > bill to the Cook Islands has been wiped, but if it happens again I get
> > > charged. Telecom wouldn't send out a new invoice, but told me to just

cross
> > > the charge out on the original one I've got. Even the Post Office

only goes
> > > by the charge on the invoice, there's no computer check on it when

they scan
> > > the bar code. Like adjustments the Power Companies can make, Telecom

should
> > > send out a new invoice to be perfectly legal instead of having me

alter the
> > > thing.
> > >
> > > Anyway if the experts could just state if it's possible for a modem to

dial
> > > out to another number while already connected to the number of an ISP

as the
> > > person at Telecom claimed, thanks.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > E. Scrooge
> > >
> > >

> > A modem of the common household variety cannot handle more than one call
> > at a time. That said how ever, spyware can hand up the line and silently
> > (speaker off) dial another number.

>
> And this is almost certainly what they do. I recently cleaned up a
> machine for some friends, one of the complaints was they would be
> disconnected often while on the internet. The dialler must have been
> doing this when it was making the calls to Diego Garcia.


Thanks for that. I couldn't see how a modem could make a call while still
connected to the ISP it called at the same very time.
I was lucky it was only a very brief problem, I must've got rid of it after
a clean up on the old PC, otherwise I'm sure it would've tried to call out
again since June 20th.

E. Scrooge



Brett 07-22-2004 01:42 PM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:23:26 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
(*sling)> wrote:

>
>"Jason M" <jmamfjd@very.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:40ff9afd.45325032@news.akl.ihugultra.co.nz.. .
>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:44:03 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
>> (*sling)> wrote:
>> Was the number Cook Islands 0068 238872?
>> I know an elderly couple who have had a dialler call that number at a
>> cost of hundreds of dollars, and Telstra have insisted that they pay
>> or they will list them on Baycorp.
>> All the searches I have done indicate that people have just paid the
>> bill and put a toll-bar on their phoneline.
>>
>> I don't understand why the owner of the number in the Cook Islands
>> cannot be traced and prosecuted for fraud, and Telstra along with
>> them. If the Cook Islands govt doesn't want to do that then NZ should
>> stop sending them $12 million in aid each year.

>
>That's the number all right. I'm sure if I still had it the bill would've
>been a lot more than $1.45 - especially if it could call out while the modem
>was in use on the Net.
>Since it's a malicious phone number telecom should be able to block that
>number, same with Telstra for their customers.
>
>E. Scrooge
>


That's a great idea to get the telco's to block these numbers.
But you might find out that these numbers in the cooks are owned by Telecom
or Telstra as it's a great little earner for them.

Doesn't nz have a fraud division and close connections with the cooks.
Maybe they are waiting for an official complaint before the can get off
there buts, woops I mean leap into action.

Brett




Brendan 07-22-2004 01:59 PM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:56:15 GMT, Jason M wrote:

> I don't understand why the owner of the number in the Cook Islands
> cannot be traced and prosecuted for fraud, and Telstra along with
> them. If the Cook Islands govt doesn't want to do that then NZ should
> stop sending them $12 million in aid each year.


The answer is very simple:

1. Telstra/Telecom/etc ALL benefit financially from these fraudulent calls.
They get a cut. The profit from it. They are in on the racket.

They could simply put a voice prompt on the line when calling one of these
problem countries, requiring you to press a couple of stated numbers before
it connects the call. Problem solved. So why don't they ?

See 1, above.

I wonder if a claim under some of the consumer protection acts could be
made.

--

.... Brendan

"We were nearly one of the last to realize that in the age of information science the most expensive asset is knowledge." -- Mikhail Gorbachev

Note: All my comments are copyright 23/07/2004 1:42:27 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

JedMeister 07-22-2004 02:07 PM

Re: Telecom Claim - True or False?
 
ha ha , good one.

Classic case of baffle the customer with bullshit - and, you can never argue
with a stupid person.

Typical telecom/xtra helpdesk strategy.



if you can't
"E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
news:1090489444.852551@radsrv1.tranzpeer.net...
> The person I spoke to at Telecom today claimed that trojan dialer could

dial
> out to another country while the modem was aready in use connected to a
> local ISP.
> She didn't know it could but still claimed it can do it.
>
> This is on dial up. I don't see how the modem can dial out when it's
> already connected in use. Though a dialer could dial out was a computer

was
> on but off the Net leaving the modem free for another dial up program.
>
> What happened is on my Telecom account it shows a call to the Cook

Islands -
> of course such calls are well known among other places that trojans use.
> Odd thing is it only showed the one call which was back on the 20th June,
> and only lasted for a minute which came to $1.45. No more such calls

since
> then and none showing today at Telecom from the date they sent the

account.
> It's possible the old PC did pick up something, as the homepage was

changed
> and locked to Microsoft. Adaware and some other program cleaned the crap
> out of the registry.
> Bit odd how the call wasn't to a high charge number and didn't last longer
> than 1minute 8 seconds. The woman from Telecom claimed she made a 5

second
> call to her daughter in Australia LOL. I said her daughter must've been
> right next to the phone to answer it and only take 5 seconds for the call.
> I also pointed out that it took a lot longer than a minute just to get
> through to Telecom, it must've taken close half an hour all up. The small
> bill to the Cook Islands has been wiped, but if it happens again I get
> charged. Telecom wouldn't send out a new invoice, but told me to just

cross
> the charge out on the original one I've got. Even the Post Office only

goes
> by the charge on the invoice, there's no computer check on it when they

scan
> the bar code. Like adjustments the Power Companies can make, Telecom

should
> send out a new invoice to be perfectly legal instead of having me alter

the
> thing.
>
> Anyway if the experts could just state if it's possible for a modem to

dial
> out to another number while already connected to the number of an ISP as

the
> person at Telecom claimed, thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> E. Scrooge
>
>





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