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-   -   cloud computing (and python)? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t565729-cloud-computing-and-python.html)

Aaron Watters 01-01-2008 09:26 PM

cloud computing (and python)?
 
So, in between skiing runs I noticed
a Business Week cover story on
"cloud computing". The article had
lots of interesting information in it like
about how somebody's mom used to
be an airline stewardess and the
interior decor of various office spaces.
It was a truly excellent piece of
journalism.

However it gave me no idea what
"cloud computing" is and how it
could be used to solve a computational
problem.

Could anyone on this list
which usually has highly informed
readers give me a clue at some
level of technical detail what cloud
computing is about and how it could
be used. Bonus points if you mention
Python in the response!

An actual example would be great,
if it's not web scraping and searching.

- Aaron Watters

==
http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydis...?FREETEXT=snow

PatrickMinnesota 01-01-2008 09:55 PM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 
On Jan 1, 3:26 pm, Aaron Watters <aaron.watt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, in between skiing runs I noticed
> a Business Week cover story on
> "cloud computing". The article had
> lots of interesting information in it like
> about how somebody's mom used to
> be an airline stewardess and the
> interior decor of various office spaces.
> It was a truly excellent piece of
> journalism.
>
> However it gave me no idea what
> "cloud computing" is and how it
> could be used to solve a computational
> problem.
>
> Could anyone on this list
> which usually has highly informed
> readers give me a clue at some
> level of technical detail what cloud
> computing is about and how it could
> be used. Bonus points if you mention
> Python in the response!
>
> An actual example would be great,
> if it's not web scraping and searching.
>
> - Aaron Watters
>
> ==http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=snow


Examples of applications in the cloud: Google apps, Zoho.com

Examples of cloud storage and bandwidth: Amazon's S3 for scalable
storage, Amazon's EC2 for scalable serving

The idea is that your data and applications are on the net, rather
than your local hard drive.

PatrickMinnesota 01-01-2008 10:04 PM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 
On Jan 1, 3:26 pm, Aaron Watters <aaron.watt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, in between skiing runs I noticed
> a Business Week cover story on
> "cloud computing". The article had
> lots of interesting information in it like
> about how somebody's mom used to
> be an airline stewardess and the
> interior decor of various office spaces.
> It was a truly excellent piece of
> journalism.
>
> However it gave me no idea what
> "cloud computing" is and how it
> could be used to solve a computational
> problem.
>
> Could anyone on this list
> which usually has highly informed
> readers give me a clue at some
> level of technical detail what cloud
> computing is about and how it could
> be used. Bonus points if you mention
> Python in the response!
>
> An actual example would be great,
> if it's not web scraping and searching.
>
> - Aaron Watters
>
> ==http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=snow


Oh, and I forgot to mention Python for points.

Python combined with a framework like Django is used with Amazon's
cloud services in various applications. www.Pownce.com is an example.

Steven D'Aprano 01-01-2008 10:05 PM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 
On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:55:10 -0800, PatrickMinnesota wrote:

> The idea is that your data and applications are on the net, rather than
> your local hard drive.


Or, to put it another way, your data and applications are controlled by
another company rather than you.

Not that I wish to be cynical or anything like that.


--
Steven

Aaron Watters 01-02-2008 12:19 AM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 
On Jan 1, 5:05 pm, Steven D'Aprano <st...@REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:55:10 -0800, PatrickMinnesota wrote:
> > The idea is that your data and applications are on the net, rather than
> > your local hard drive.

>
> Or, to put it another way, your data and applications are controlled by
> another company rather than you.
>
> Not that I wish to be cynical or anything like that.
>
> --
> Steven


I see. So cloud computing is
java dickless^H^H^H^H^H^Hskless
workstations warmed over but less
flexible? I'm having trouble
understanding why people would want
to buy in to this. For example at
the amazon site I see things like
"it might take a couple minutes
to load your image..." Are they
joking?

hmmm. -- Aaron Watters

===
http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydis...y+objects+okay


Cameron Laird 01-02-2008 01:04 AM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 
In article <eb920cf5-0166-46dd-a931-25cd38f972c1@75g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
Aaron Watters <aaron.watters@gmail.com> wrote:
>So, in between skiing runs I noticed
>a Business Week cover story on
>"cloud computing". The article had
>lots of interesting information in it like
>about how somebody's mom used to
>be an airline stewardess and the
>interior decor of various office spaces.
>It was a truly excellent piece of
>journalism.
>
>However it gave me no idea what
>"cloud computing" is and how it
>could be used to solve a computational
>problem.
>
>Could anyone on this list
>which usually has highly informed
>readers give me a clue at some
>level of technical detail what cloud
>computing is about and how it could
>be used. Bonus points if you mention
>Python in the response!
>
>An actual example would be great,
>if it's not web scraping and searching.

.
.
.
Aaron, while I make time for a more pertinent response,
<URL: http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=10125/ur0704l/ >
might interest you.

I owe you better examples, though.

Neil Hodgson 01-02-2008 01:12 AM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 
Cloud computing is mostly about scalability. You do not need to be
concerned so much about low level infrastructure details such as
purchasing servers, configuring and maintaining them, hiring space in
data centres, linking up data centres, etc. It converts a lot of fixed
costs into lower recurring costs so makes it easier for a start up with
limited capital to start operating.

There are Python libraries for accessing some of the cloud computing
services and you can also host Python application code on some services
that allow code execution. This includes services that can run arbitrary
code on virtual machines such as EC2 and more restricted computational
services like Hadoop which can run Jython.

Neil

PatrickMinnesota 01-02-2008 01:46 AM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 
On Jan 1, 7:12 pm, Neil Hodgson <nyamatongwe+thun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cloud computing is mostly about scalability. You do not need to be
> concerned so much about low level infrastructure details such as
> purchasing servers, configuring and maintaining them, hiring space in
> data centres, linking up data centres, etc. It converts a lot of fixed
> costs into lower recurring costs so makes it easier for a start up with
> limited capital to start operating.
>
> There are Python libraries for accessing some of the cloud computing
> services and you can also host Python application code on some services
> that allow code execution. This includes services that can run arbitrary
> code on virtual machines such as EC2 and more restricted computational
> services like Hadoop which can run Jython.
>
> Neil


I would say that cloud computing to an implementor or company
providing cloud
computing is all about scalability and stuff like S3 and EC3. There
are
other options for this BTW.

But to the end user, it's about having your data and applications on a
disk
served by a network and server that is somewhere out there on the net
and
accessible from anywhere that you have connectivity. You might travel
with
a laptop, but generally, when in Hong Kong, you'll be screwed if a
chunk of
data is sitting on a disk inside a desktop in your home office and
isn't on
your laptop. With the 'cloud' concept, it wouldn't matter where you
are,
as long as you have a connection to the internet, you can run the apps
and
access the data.

Issues: and yes, they are big, who has control over the data, is it
being
backed up and protected, and is your private data being mined without
your approval. Oh,
and what happens if you use Zoho's system and they go out of
business?

Michael Sparks 01-02-2008 03:06 PM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 
Aaron Watters wrote: (from a gmail account)
> So cloud computing is java diskless workstations warmed over but less
> flexible?
>
> I'm having trouble understanding why people would want
> to buy in to this.


Why do you like gmail - since you appear to use it? (I can think of several
possibilities) The reason I ask Gmail is a an example of computing in the
cloud. Specifically it's an application in the cloud.

You get several classes of things "in the cloud" - one possible break up:
* Applications - gmail, amazon, hotmail, facebook widgets, writely,
blogger, flickr, etc.
* Components - YUI, EC2, S3
* Frameworks - open social, facebook

etc. Each has benefits. Some examples:
* gmail, hotmail, yahoomail - spam filtering, access your mail anywhere.
You rent the application by paying with attention (or paying money - I
think hotmail still do that)
* S3 - scalable storage in the cloud WITH scalable serving. The trade off
here is "how much does it cost you to run a colo box or dedicated
server" vs "how much to rent the space". You rent capacity on demand.
(a bit like "why buy storage at a self-storage place rather than buy a
garage?" - there are good reasons both ways round :-)
* EC2 - Similar, but to do with computing capacity.
EC2 & S3 allow you to scale for example in line _and in time_ with the
size of your userbase - assuming your business model (if you have
one :-) matches
* open social, facebook - rather than build your own social graph, you
can attach yourself to an existing one to simplify take-up.

I must admit I feel a hint of amusement though at your comment above, when
it's sent from precisely the sort of setup you appear bemused by - since
you appear to have already bought into it without realising ! :-D

Have fun :-)


Michael.


Aaron Watters 01-02-2008 03:33 PM

Re: cloud computing (and python)?
 

> I must admit I feel a hint of amusement though at your comment above, when
> it's sent from precisely the sort of setup you appear bemused by - since
> you appear to have already bought into it without realising ! :-D


Ok, so if we include yahoo mail and gmail in "cloud computing" then I
guess
usenet is also cloud computing. How about ftp? ssh? nfs? Oh I get
it. It's
another meaningless marketing buzz phrase.

I mean, really, I've been using web-mail and various varieties of
remote
storage for over a decade. What is *new* about the concept? (I see
some
hints above, but it's mixed in with a lot of other stuff...)

-- Aaron Watters

===
http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydis...o?FREETEXT=fud


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