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=?Utf-8?B?VVdSRlJFUE9SVEVSMDQ=?= 08-20-2007 12:30 AM

Question on which books to study with?
 
I've been doing some research and I have found many opinions on which self
training books are the best to prepare for the exams, both the core MSCE and
elective exams.

I've read bad opinions about the microsoft self paced training kit and
average opinions on sybex books among a few others.

I don't want to go spending some $100, $200, etc on exam books or materials
and need some recommendations on a training book that will help me pass the
exam if I take my time and read through the materials properly.

I currently have textbooks for 70-270 and 290 from microsoft IT academy
used in a couple of my college courses.

Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.] 08-20-2007 01:01 AM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
"UWRFREPORTER04" <UWRFREPORTER04@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:6172687D-15D9-4067-830F-204F3FD89D48@microsoft.com:

> I've been doing some research and I have found many opinions on which self
> training books are the best to prepare for the exams, both the core MSCE and
> elective exams.
>
> I've read bad opinions about the microsoft self paced training kit and
> average opinions on sybex books among a few others.
>
> I don't want to go spending some $100, $200, etc on exam books or materials
> and need some recommendations on a training book that will help me pass the
> exam if I take my time and read through the materials properly.
>
> I currently have textbooks for 70-270 and 290 from microsoft IT academy
> used in a couple of my college courses.


Fortunately there is no exclusive, guaranteed training kit on the market
for these exams. The trouble with opinions is that they are opinionated
:-) I would guess that half the people who give reviews about training
kits failed the exam after using it. Is this the kits fault? Perhaps.
But I bet that is all they used to try to pass the exam. I have been
thinking lately if training kits or study guides are a great idea to
have on the market. I am leaning toward no. The reason is that
certification exams by default are based on recommended experience. What
good is there in having a training kit or 5 day class if the
certification program recommends experience in passing the exams? There
are tons of resource kits and other books on technology. Why do we need
a specific book on exam content when this content is available online
and in printed form in other books (resource kits and such). Answer:
MONEY. Nothing wrong with this, it is what makes the world go around and
what we all work to achieve. But to me, training kits or certification
prep guides are fading fast with me. I do not need a book outlining the
exam content -- the Microsoft learning site informs me what I will be
tested on for any particular exam. I do not need the kit to learn about
the technology that I will be tested on -- my experience with the
technology, other resource kits I own for research about the covered
technology, and http://www.microsoft.com/technet assist me with that
part. I do not need the training kits for the evaluation software -- I
should already know it, or at the very least worked on it before if I
plan on testing out on it! And I sure don't need the training kit for
the practice exams. In my personal opinionated view, practice exams are
a waste of time. They are riddled with errors, give the person a false
sense of security or worse, make them afraid to take the real exam and
doubt their abilities.

So again I ask, why do we need training kits or exam preparation guides?

--
Michael D. Alligood,
MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com



=?Utf-8?B?VVdSRlJFUE9SVEVSMDQ=?= 08-20-2007 02:14 AM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
I understand with what you are saying. The majority of the things I've
learned from Server 2003 is by doing it and learning things with group policy
and permissions as I go along and getting numerous help from technet and
various 2003 newsgroups. I know a little bit about everything, but not an
expert on any. I know enough about exchange server to create and manage
mailboxes, recipient policies, installing exchange, basically the things I
needed to do to set up exchange and server 2003 for my organization. Most of
this stuff I did by reading online and learning as I go.

I agree with the opinions is based on they passed the test or not. If you
haven't had actual experience and read a book for all your knowledge, I'm
going to assume it's going to be very hard to pass a test.

With that said I would like to use a book to further my knowledge and help
me understand some areas I'm confused on. I may have set up DNS, Wins,
Active directory, but I don't understand the fine details or understanding of
why it works.

I took a free practice exam from preplogic and discovered I know nothing
about shadow copies and dymanic disks, which may not even be on the exam.

So to make a long story short, I'm looking more for a book that will fine
tune the areas I understand and go into some detail the areas I don't.
Considering I work on (actually designed myself) a server 2003 network should
help.

I was considering a MS press book, mainly for the material and maybe see how
the questions might be laid out on the exam.

If you think is a good or bad idea I would like to hear your thoughts after
you know a little bit of my background.

"Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" wrote:

> "UWRFREPORTER04" <UWRFREPORTER04@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:6172687D-15D9-4067-830F-204F3FD89D48@microsoft.com:
>
> > I've been doing some research and I have found many opinions on which self
> > training books are the best to prepare for the exams, both the core MSCE and
> > elective exams.
> >
> > I've read bad opinions about the microsoft self paced training kit and
> > average opinions on sybex books among a few others.
> >
> > I don't want to go spending some $100, $200, etc on exam books or materials
> > and need some recommendations on a training book that will help me pass the
> > exam if I take my time and read through the materials properly.
> >
> > I currently have textbooks for 70-270 and 290 from microsoft IT academy
> > used in a couple of my college courses.

>
> Fortunately there is no exclusive, guaranteed training kit on the market
> for these exams. The trouble with opinions is that they are opinionated
> :-) I would guess that half the people who give reviews about training
> kits failed the exam after using it. Is this the kits fault? Perhaps.
> But I bet that is all they used to try to pass the exam. I have been
> thinking lately if training kits or study guides are a great idea to
> have on the market. I am leaning toward no. The reason is that
> certification exams by default are based on recommended experience. What
> good is there in having a training kit or 5 day class if the
> certification program recommends experience in passing the exams? There
> are tons of resource kits and other books on technology. Why do we need
> a specific book on exam content when this content is available online
> and in printed form in other books (resource kits and such). Answer:
> MONEY. Nothing wrong with this, it is what makes the world go around and
> what we all work to achieve. But to me, training kits or certification
> prep guides are fading fast with me. I do not need a book outlining the
> exam content -- the Microsoft learning site informs me what I will be
> tested on for any particular exam. I do not need the kit to learn about
> the technology that I will be tested on -- my experience with the
> technology, other resource kits I own for research about the covered
> technology, and http://www.microsoft.com/technet assist me with that
> part. I do not need the training kits for the evaluation software -- I
> should already know it, or at the very least worked on it before if I
> plan on testing out on it! And I sure don't need the training kit for
> the practice exams. In my personal opinionated view, practice exams are
> a waste of time. They are riddled with errors, give the person a false
> sense of security or worse, make them afraid to take the real exam and
> doubt their abilities.
>
> So again I ask, why do we need training kits or exam preparation guides?
>
> --
> Michael D. Alligood,
> MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
> The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
> CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com
>
>
>


Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.] 08-20-2007 04:08 AM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
"UWRFREPORTER04" <UWRFREPORTER04@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:3DDCB747-7793-4FB9-8B6F-7E6FC25E36A2@microsoft.com:

> I understand with what you are saying. The majority of the things I've
> learned from Server 2003 is by doing it and learning things with group policy
> and permissions as I go along and getting numerous help from technet and
> various 2003 newsgroups. I know a little bit about everything, but not an
> expert on any. I know enough about exchange server to create and manage
> mailboxes, recipient policies, installing exchange, basically the things I
> needed to do to set up exchange and server 2003 for my organization. Most of
> this stuff I did by reading online and learning as I go.
>
> I agree with the opinions is based on they passed the test or not. If you
> haven't had actual experience and read a book for all your knowledge, I'm
> going to assume it's going to be very hard to pass a test.
>
> With that said I would like to use a book to further my knowledge and help
> me understand some areas I'm confused on. I may have set up DNS, Wins,
> Active directory, but I don't understand the fine details or understanding of
> why it works.
>
> I took a free practice exam from preplogic and discovered I know nothing
> about shadow copies and dymanic disks, which may not even be on the exam.
>
> So to make a long story short, I'm looking more for a book that will fine
> tune the areas I understand and go into some detail the areas I don't.
> Considering I work on (actually designed myself) a server 2003 network should
> help.
>
> I was considering a MS press book, mainly for the material and maybe see how
> the questions might be laid out on the exam.
>
> If you think is a good or bad idea I would like to hear your thoughts after
> you know a little bit of my background.
>
> "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" wrote:
>
> > "UWRFREPORTER04" <UWRFREPORTER04@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> > message news:6172687D-15D9-4067-830F-204F3FD89D48@microsoft.com:
> >
> > > I've been doing some research and I have found many opinions on which self
> > > training books are the best to prepare for the exams, both the core MSCE and
> > > elective exams.
> > >
> > > I've read bad opinions about the microsoft self paced training kit and
> > > average opinions on sybex books among a few others.
> > >
> > > I don't want to go spending some $100, $200, etc on exam books or materials
> > > and need some recommendations on a training book that will help me pass the
> > > exam if I take my time and read through the materials properly.
> > >
> > > I currently have textbooks for 70-270 and 290 from microsoft IT academy
> > > used in a couple of my college courses.

> >
> > Fortunately there is no exclusive, guaranteed training kit on the market
> > for these exams. The trouble with opinions is that they are opinionated
> > :-) I would guess that half the people who give reviews about training
> > kits failed the exam after using it. Is this the kits fault? Perhaps.
> > But I bet that is all they used to try to pass the exam. I have been
> > thinking lately if training kits or study guides are a great idea to
> > have on the market. I am leaning toward no. The reason is that
> > certification exams by default are based on recommended experience. What
> > good is there in having a training kit or 5 day class if the
> > certification program recommends experience in passing the exams? There
> > are tons of resource kits and other books on technology. Why do we need
> > a specific book on exam content when this content is available online
> > and in printed form in other books (resource kits and such). Answer:
> > MONEY. Nothing wrong with this, it is what makes the world go around and
> > what we all work to achieve. But to me, training kits or certification
> > prep guides are fading fast with me. I do not need a book outlining the
> > exam content -- the Microsoft learning site informs me what I will be
> > tested on for any particular exam. I do not need the kit to learn about
> > the technology that I will be tested on -- my experience with the
> > technology, other resource kits I own for research about the covered
> > technology, and http://www.microsoft.com/technet assist me with that
> > part. I do not need the training kits for the evaluation software -- I
> > should already know it, or at the very least worked on it before if I
> > plan on testing out on it! And I sure don't need the training kit for
> > the practice exams. In my personal opinionated view, practice exams are
> > a waste of time. They are riddled with errors, give the person a false
> > sense of security or worse, make them afraid to take the real exam and
> > doubt their abilities.
> >
> > So again I ask, why do we need training kits or exam preparation guides?
> >
> > --
> > Michael D. Alligood,
> > MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
> > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
> > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com
> >
> >
> >


I find the Microsoft Resource Kits to be very concise. However, I
recommend browsing thru your local bookstore and choosing several
different publishers/authors on a technology (Microsoft Windows Server
2003). Take note how the books are laid out, worded, and detailed. Your
mind will immediately adapt to a certain style it is comfortable with.
The hard part is not necessarily to go with that book however. Let's
face it, these books are not cheap. You have to decide what you are
looking for in a book. Here is a homework assignment for you: Pick 3-4
books on Windows Server 2003. Pick a topic such as DNS or a technology
that you are unfamiliar with. Read the different approaches in the 3-4
different books concerning the subject and see which book is more
concise. Make your own decision. And remember that all books are not
perfect. Whichever publisher you chose, remember to visit the company's
website to download corrections to errors. Good luck!

--
Michael D. Alligood,
MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com



Syed Shah 08-20-2007 11:04 AM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
the microsoft books are not that bad as some reviews
i passed all exams with them but its always useful to know everything there
is in the software and so use some other materials too


"UWRFREPORTER04" <UWRFREPORTER04@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6172687D-15D9-4067-830F-204F3FD89D48@microsoft.com...
> I've been doing some research and I have found many opinions on which self
> training books are the best to prepare for the exams, both the core MSCE
> and
> elective exams.
>
> I've read bad opinions about the microsoft self paced training kit and
> average opinions on sybex books among a few others.
>
> I don't want to go spending some $100, $200, etc on exam books or
> materials
> and need some recommendations on a training book that will help me pass
> the
> exam if I take my time and read through the materials properly.
>
> I currently have textbooks for 70-270 and 290 from microsoft IT academy
> used in a couple of my college courses.



catwalker63 08-20-2007 04:21 PM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
"Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <mdalligood@bellsouth.net>
prattled ceaselessly in news:eAFXWXs4HHA.5724@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

> I would guess that half the people who give reviews about training
> kits failed the exam after using it. Is this the kits fault? Perhaps.
> But I bet that is all they used to try to pass the exam. I have been
> thinking lately if training kits or study guides are a great idea to
> have on the market. I am leaning toward no. The reason is that
> certification exams by default are based on recommended experience.
> What good is there in having a training kit or 5 day class if the
> certification program recommends experience in passing the exams?
> There are tons of resource kits and other books on technology. Why do
> we need a specific book on exam content when this content is available
> online and in printed form in other books (resource kits and such).
> Answer: MONEY. Nothing wrong with this, it is what makes the world go
> around and what we all work to achieve. But to me, training kits or
> certification prep guides are fading fast with me. I do not need a
> book outlining the exam content -- the Microsoft learning site informs
> me what I will be tested on for any particular exam. I do not need the
> kit to learn about the technology that I will be tested on -- my
> experience with the technology, other resource kits I own for research
> about the covered technology, and http://www.microsoft.com/technet
> assist me with that part. I do not need the training kits for the
> evaluation software -- I should already know it, or at the very least
> worked on it before if I plan on testing out on it! And I sure don't
> need the training kit for the practice exams. In my personal
> opinionated view, practice exams are a waste of time. They are riddled
> with errors, give the person a false sense of security or worse, make
> them afraid to take the real exam and doubt their abilities.
>



I agree that no one should attempt to gain the certs without experience.
That said, I don't think they will have every experience with everything
being examined in the real world. Training kits give you a framework to
learn a new version and to learn all about it. That's their value. If I
have a year or more experience administering and building with Windows
2000 Server and I'm about to be supporting 2003, I have the experience to
attempt to certify because it's just a new version. The Training Kit
will get me up to speed quicker than reading the whole resource kit and
if I actually do in a lab what I'm learning, I should have sufficient
experience to work in the real world.

The experience does not have to be with a specific product. I could go
from Novel or Linux Server OS's with the training kits. It doesn't mean
I'll get a job or that I should attempt the certification until I have
some on the job experience but the training kits are designed to get me
through the technology fairly quickly and efficiently.

The longer I'm in IT and the more varied my experience, the less I have
to have in one specific item in order to get up to speed quickly. Lots
of what I know already will transfer. The people I'm concerned about
with regard to experience are the hobbiests or the career switchers.
They will find it impossible to really get any value from the
certification or training kit process until they have some experience.

--
Catwalker
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"Definitely not wearing any underwear."

Neil 08-20-2007 04:31 PM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
did you hear =?Utf-8?B?VVdSRlJFUE9SVEVSMDQ=?= <UWRFREPORTER04
@discussions.microsoft.com> say in news:6172687D-15D9-4067-830F-
204F3FD89D48@microsoft.com:

> Question on which books to study with?


books on-line? (the help file? you know, like using the product...)

--
The InterNeil "V2 w/tabbed browsing & decreased verbosity" MCNGP Triple X

- This space for rent.

=?Utf-8?B?VVdSRlJFUE9SVEVSMDQ=?= 08-20-2007 08:26 PM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
Thanks for your help. I did look at a book store, but there selection was
slim at best and found more options through amazon. I was going to do all my
studying through a program called Testout, but my college isn't continuing
the program.

"Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" wrote:

> "UWRFREPORTER04" <UWRFREPORTER04@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:3DDCB747-7793-4FB9-8B6F-7E6FC25E36A2@microsoft.com:
>
> > I understand with what you are saying. The majority of the things I've
> > learned from Server 2003 is by doing it and learning things with group policy
> > and permissions as I go along and getting numerous help from technet and
> > various 2003 newsgroups. I know a little bit about everything, but not an
> > expert on any. I know enough about exchange server to create and manage
> > mailboxes, recipient policies, installing exchange, basically the things I
> > needed to do to set up exchange and server 2003 for my organization. Most of
> > this stuff I did by reading online and learning as I go.
> >
> > I agree with the opinions is based on they passed the test or not. If you
> > haven't had actual experience and read a book for all your knowledge, I'm
> > going to assume it's going to be very hard to pass a test.
> >
> > With that said I would like to use a book to further my knowledge and help
> > me understand some areas I'm confused on. I may have set up DNS, Wins,
> > Active directory, but I don't understand the fine details or understanding of
> > why it works.
> >
> > I took a free practice exam from preplogic and discovered I know nothing
> > about shadow copies and dymanic disks, which may not even be on the exam.
> >
> > So to make a long story short, I'm looking more for a book that will fine
> > tune the areas I understand and go into some detail the areas I don't.
> > Considering I work on (actually designed myself) a server 2003 network should
> > help.
> >
> > I was considering a MS press book, mainly for the material and maybe see how
> > the questions might be laid out on the exam.
> >
> > If you think is a good or bad idea I would like to hear your thoughts after
> > you know a little bit of my background.
> >
> > "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" wrote:
> >
> > > "UWRFREPORTER04" <UWRFREPORTER04@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> > > message news:6172687D-15D9-4067-830F-204F3FD89D48@microsoft.com:
> > >
> > > > I've been doing some research and I have found many opinions on which self
> > > > training books are the best to prepare for the exams, both the core MSCE and
> > > > elective exams.
> > > >
> > > > I've read bad opinions about the microsoft self paced training kit and
> > > > average opinions on sybex books among a few others.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to go spending some $100, $200, etc on exam books or materials
> > > > and need some recommendations on a training book that will help me pass the
> > > > exam if I take my time and read through the materials properly.
> > > >
> > > > I currently have textbooks for 70-270 and 290 from microsoft IT academy
> > > > used in a couple of my college courses.
> > >
> > > Fortunately there is no exclusive, guaranteed training kit on the market
> > > for these exams. The trouble with opinions is that they are opinionated
> > > :-) I would guess that half the people who give reviews about training
> > > kits failed the exam after using it. Is this the kits fault? Perhaps.
> > > But I bet that is all they used to try to pass the exam. I have been
> > > thinking lately if training kits or study guides are a great idea to
> > > have on the market. I am leaning toward no. The reason is that
> > > certification exams by default are based on recommended experience. What
> > > good is there in having a training kit or 5 day class if the
> > > certification program recommends experience in passing the exams? There
> > > are tons of resource kits and other books on technology. Why do we need
> > > a specific book on exam content when this content is available online
> > > and in printed form in other books (resource kits and such). Answer:
> > > MONEY. Nothing wrong with this, it is what makes the world go around and
> > > what we all work to achieve. But to me, training kits or certification
> > > prep guides are fading fast with me. I do not need a book outlining the
> > > exam content -- the Microsoft learning site informs me what I will be
> > > tested on for any particular exam. I do not need the kit to learn about
> > > the technology that I will be tested on -- my experience with the
> > > technology, other resource kits I own for research about the covered
> > > technology, and http://www.microsoft.com/technet assist me with that
> > > part. I do not need the training kits for the evaluation software -- I
> > > should already know it, or at the very least worked on it before if I
> > > plan on testing out on it! And I sure don't need the training kit for
> > > the practice exams. In my personal opinionated view, practice exams are
> > > a waste of time. They are riddled with errors, give the person a false
> > > sense of security or worse, make them afraid to take the real exam and
> > > doubt their abilities.
> > >
> > > So again I ask, why do we need training kits or exam preparation guides?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael D. Alligood,
> > > MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
> > > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
> > > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com
> > >
> > >
> > >

>
> I find the Microsoft Resource Kits to be very concise. However, I
> recommend browsing thru your local bookstore and choosing several
> different publishers/authors on a technology (Microsoft Windows Server
> 2003). Take note how the books are laid out, worded, and detailed. Your
> mind will immediately adapt to a certain style it is comfortable with.
> The hard part is not necessarily to go with that book however. Let's
> face it, these books are not cheap. You have to decide what you are
> looking for in a book. Here is a homework assignment for you: Pick 3-4
> books on Windows Server 2003. Pick a topic such as DNS or a technology
> that you are unfamiliar with. Read the different approaches in the 3-4
> different books concerning the subject and see which book is more
> concise. Make your own decision. And remember that all books are not
> perfect. Whichever publisher you chose, remember to visit the company's
> website to download corrections to errors. Good luck!
>
> --
> Michael D. Alligood,
> MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
> The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
> CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com
>
>
>


LRM 08-21-2007 12:10 AM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
"Neil" <guess!!!@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99927F6A8D285neilmcsegmailcom@207.46.248.1 6...
> did you hear =?Utf-8?B?VVdSRlJFUE9SVEVSMDQ=?= <UWRFREPORTER04
> @discussions.microsoft.com> say in news:6172687D-15D9-4067-830F-
> 204F3FD89D48@microsoft.com:
>
>> Question on which books to study with?

>
> books on-line? (the help file? you know, like using the product...)
>


No, I don't get it.

--
LRM
MCNGP 7^2
www.mcngp.com home of the bogosity singularity.



Neil 08-21-2007 12:47 PM

Re: Question on which books to study with?
 
did you hear "LRM" <Fskspam@friedspam.com> say in news:eaad$e44HHA.5316
@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:

> No, I don't get it.
>


come closer, I'll give it to you...

--
The InterNeil "V2 w/tabbed browsing & decreased verbosity" MCNGP Triple X

- What do you mean? You actually read this Tagline?!?


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