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tutorny@gmail.com 03-26-2007 04:36 PM

Questions about spam.
 
Somebody emailed to tell me that they reported me to the authorities
for illegal spam. I didn't know that what I was doing was illegal, or
even considered spam. I always thought that spamming involved using
automatic ways of sending email to large quantities of people.

Obviously, I should have done my research instead of falling for a
scam. But I wasn't thinking, and I forwarded message to several
newsgroups (4, to be exact) to see if it would work. As soon as I got
the reply saying that what I was doing was illegal, I immediately
deleted the messages through google groups.

I have the following questions -

1) What are some good resources for figuring out whether the various
get-rich schemes that we are constantly being emailed about are
illegal, or simply ineffective. (Obviously they are ineffective, but
sometimes the temptation is too great, and you just want to try to see
if it can work).

2) What can I do to alert my ISP when I get such messages in email?
What about the messages that I get through various forums? The
particular one that I fell for was posted on "43 things" a forum that
I've come to trust.

3) Should I get in touch with my ISP and let them know that somebody
reported me for spam? What are the repercussions?

I've never committed any such offenses, and I obviously don't want to
start now.

Thanks so much for your advice.


John Holmes 03-26-2007 05:26 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 
"contributed" in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

> Somebody emailed to tell me that they reported me to the authorities
> for illegal spam. I didn't know that what I was doing was illegal, or
> even considered spam. I always thought that spamming involved using
> automatic ways of sending email to large quantities of people.
>
> Obviously, I should have done my research instead of falling for a
> scam. But I wasn't thinking, and I forwarded message to several
> newsgroups (4, to be exact) to see if it would work. As soon as I got
> the reply saying that what I was doing was illegal, I immediately
> deleted the messages through google groups.
>
> I have the following questions -
>
> 1) What are some good resources for figuring out whether the various
> get-rich schemes that we are constantly being emailed about are
> illegal, or simply ineffective. (Obviously they are ineffective, but
> sometimes the temptation is too great, and you just want to try to see
> if it can work).
>
> 2) What can I do to alert my ISP when I get such messages in email?
> What about the messages that I get through various forums? The
> particular one that I fell for was posted on "43 things" a forum that
> I've come to trust.
>
> 3) Should I get in touch with my ISP and let them know that somebody
> reported me for spam? What are the repercussions?
>
> I've never committed any such offenses, and I obviously don't want to
> start now.
>
> Thanks so much for your advice.
>
>


Complaint sent to groups-abuse@google.com

--
Your mother was a foreign gypsy who drank heavily under the sink.



























tutorny@gmail.com 03-26-2007 05:33 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 
On Mar 26, 1:26 pm, John Holmes <nospam.13i...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "contributed" in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:


I completely don't understand. Did I ask the wrong question, or is
this the wrong forum?



Aardvark 03-26-2007 05:33 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:36:27 -0700, tutorny wrote:

> Somebody emailed to tell me that they reported me to the authorities
> for illegal spam. I didn't know that what I was doing was illegal,


Well, you won't do that again, will you? Ignorance of the law is no
defence.

>or
> even considered spam. I always thought that spamming involved using
> automatic ways of sending email to large quantities of people.
>


Unsolicited Commercial Email (spam for short) is, as it says, commercial
email that wasn't asked for. Even if you sent it to a good friend or even
a family member and they haven't given you prior permission to send it to
them, it's spam by definition. Spam can be one million emails sent
automatically or one email sent manually.

> Obviously, I should have done my research instead of falling for a
> scam. But I wasn't thinking, and I forwarded message to several
> newsgroups (4, to be exact) to see if it would work. As soon as I got
> the reply saying that what I was doing was illegal, I immediately
> deleted the messages through google groups.
>


It'll probably still be there for all the world to see (at least those of
us who use newsreaders) for some time to come.

> I have the following questions -
>
> 1) What are some good resources for figuring out whether the various
> get-rich schemes that we are constantly being emailed about are
> illegal, or simply ineffective. (Obviously they are ineffective, but
> sometimes the temptation is too great, and you just want to try to see
> if it can work).
>


No resources needed. If it looks too good to be true, it is. As a matter
of principle I will never buy or sign up for anything that I haven't
specifically searched for myself.

> 2) What can I do to alert my ISP when I get such messages in email?


Not much

> What about the messages that I get through various forums? The
> particular one that I fell for was posted on "43 things" a forum that
> I've come to trust.
>


Ignore them.

> 3) Should I get in touch with my ISP and let them know that somebody
> reported me for spam? What are the repercussions?
>


That'd be a really bad idea. Unless of course you have another ISP waiting
in the wings to take you on when your present ISP drops you like a hot
potato.

> I've never committed any such offenses, and I obviously don't want to
> start now.


Seems you dabbled your toes in those murky waters but didn't take the final
plunge. BTW 'offence' is not spelled with an 's'. Come to think of it,
neither is 'defence' (waste of time telling an American I know, but what
the **** :-) )

>
> Thanks so much for your advice.



Right! Now that all the breast-beating and 'mea culpa' **** is over can we
all just get on with our lives?



--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

WhzzKdd 03-26-2007 05:34 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 
<tutorny@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174926987.387638.295810@l75g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> Somebody emailed to tell me that they reported me to the authorities
> for illegal spam. I didn't know that what I was doing was illegal, or
> even considered spam. I always thought that spamming involved using
> automatic ways of sending email to large quantities of people.
>
> Obviously, I should have done my research instead of falling for a
> scam. But I wasn't thinking, and I forwarded message to several
> newsgroups (4, to be exact) to see if it would work. As soon as I got
> the reply saying that what I was doing was illegal, I immediately
> deleted the messages through google groups.
>
> I have the following questions -
>
> 1) What are some good resources for figuring out whether the various
> get-rich schemes that we are constantly being emailed about are
> illegal, or simply ineffective. (Obviously they are ineffective, but
> sometimes the temptation is too great, and you just want to try to see
> if it can work).
>


If it SOUNDS too good to be true, it is. Also, try www.snopes.com, and
contact the companies that are involved to find out what THEY have to say.

> 2) What can I do to alert my ISP when I get such messages in email?
> What about the messages that I get through various forums? The
> particular one that I fell for was posted on "43 things" a forum that
> I've come to trust.
>

You need to learn how to report the abuse to the authorities at the sending
end. Telling your ISP is going to do nothing: they only receive the crap -
someone else sent it.

> 3) Should I get in touch with my ISP and let them know that somebody
> reported me for spam? What are the repercussions?
>

Unless your ISP contacts you to follow-up on the complaint, I wouldn't
stress out over it.

> I've never committed any such offenses, and I obviously don't want to
> start now.
>
> Thanks so much for your advice.
>




Aardvark 03-26-2007 05:35 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:26:41 +0200, John Holmes wrote:

> "contributed" in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:
>
>> Somebody emailed to tell me that they reported me to the authorities
>> for illegal spam. I didn't know that what I was doing was illegal, or
>> even considered spam. I always thought that spamming involved using
>> automatic ways of sending email to large quantities of people.
>>
>> Obviously, I should have done my research instead of falling for a
>> scam. But I wasn't thinking, and I forwarded message to several
>> newsgroups (4, to be exact) to see if it would work. As soon as I got
>> the reply saying that what I was doing was illegal, I immediately
>> deleted the messages through google groups.
>>
>> I have the following questions -
>>
>> 1) What are some good resources for figuring out whether the various
>> get-rich schemes that we are constantly being emailed about are
>> illegal, or simply ineffective. (Obviously they are ineffective, but
>> sometimes the temptation is too great, and you just want to try to see
>> if it can work).
>>
>> 2) What can I do to alert my ISP when I get such messages in email?
>> What about the messages that I get through various forums? The
>> particular one that I fell for was posted on "43 things" a forum that
>> I've come to trust.
>>
>> 3) Should I get in touch with my ISP and let them know that somebody
>> reported me for spam? What are the repercussions?
>>
>> I've never committed any such offenses, and I obviously don't want to
>> start now.
>>
>> Thanks so much for your advice.
>>
>>

>
> Complaint sent to groups-abuse@google.com
>


LOL That's nasty.

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

Mike Easter 03-26-2007 05:50 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 
tutorny@gmail.com wrote:
> Somebody emailed to tell me that they reported me to the authorities
> for illegal spam.


Below it sounds like you fell for and propagated some kind of
chainletter scam/spam. It is illegal and it is usenet spam -- altho' I
haven't found the/your example yet.

http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/chainlet.htm U.S. Postal
Inspectors investigate any crime in which the U.S. Mail is used to
further a scheme--whether it originated in the mail, by telephone, or on
the Internet.

> I didn't know that what I was doing was illegal, or
> even considered spam.


There is all kinds of spam which is very much spam but not illegal,
there is all kinds of illegal that is very much illegal but not spam,
and there is all kinds of illegal spam.

> I always thought that spamming involved using
> automatic ways of sending email to large quantities of people.


Just because your style of doing something wrong isn't the same as
someone else's style of doing something wrong doesn't make it right.

> Obviously, I should have done my research instead of falling for a
> scam.


To be sure.

> But I wasn't thinking, and I forwarded message to several
> newsgroups (4, to be exact) to see if it would work.


That is the illegal and spam part.

> As soon as I got
> the reply saying that what I was doing was illegal, I immediately
> deleted the messages through google groups.


The google group deletion doesn't delete the messages which were
propagated all over the world to newsservers and people's newsagents.

> I have the following questions -
>
> 1) What are some good resources for figuring out whether the various
> get-rich schemes that we are constantly being emailed about are
> illegal, or simply ineffective. (Obviously they are ineffective, but
> sometimes the temptation is too great, and you just want to try to see
> if it can work).


Fundamentally, you should not be doing anything to benefit anything
which has to do with email spam or usenet spam. Ideally you wouldn't
even read it, much less think about responding to it.

> 2) What can I do to alert my ISP when I get such messages in email?


Your ISP doesn't want to hear about your email spam.

> What about the messages that I get through various forums? The
> particular one that I fell for was posted on "43 things" a forum that
> I've come to trust.


If you use google for reading news, you have no way of filtering what
you read. If you were using a real newsreader and a real newsagent
filter, you could make the spamscam disappear.

> 3) Should I get in touch with my ISP and let them know that somebody
> reported me for spam? What are the repercussions?


It is generally against your provider's terms of service to be spamming
or scamming or doing other illegal or rude activity.

Columbia has a whole section of pages about what you should and
shouldn't be doing at http://www.columbia.edu/cu/policy/ Columbia
University maintains certain policies with regard to the use and
security of its computer systems, networks and information resources.
All users of these facilities are expected to be familiar with these
policies and the consequences of violation.


--
Mike Easter


Whiskers 03-26-2007 05:51 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 
On 2007-03-26, tutorny@gmail.com <tutorny@gmail.com> wrote:
> Somebody emailed to tell me that they reported me to the authorities
> for illegal spam. I didn't know that what I was doing was illegal, or
> even considered spam. I always thought that spamming involved using
> automatic ways of sending email to large quantities of people.
>
> Obviously, I should have done my research instead of falling for a
> scam. But I wasn't thinking, and I forwarded message to several
> newsgroups (4, to be exact) to see if it would work. As soon as I got
> the reply saying that what I was doing was illegal, I immediately
> deleted the messages through google groups.
>
> I have the following questions -
>
> 1) What are some good resources for figuring out whether the various
> get-rich schemes that we are constantly being emailed about are
> illegal, or simply ineffective. (Obviously they are ineffective, but
> sometimes the temptation is too great, and you just want to try to see
> if it can work).


<http://www.snopes.com/> <http://members.impulse.net/~thebob/Pyramid.html>
<http://www.scambusters.org/>
<http://antivirus.about.com/od/emailhoaxes/l/blenhoax.htm>

> 2) What can I do to alert my ISP when I get such messages in email?


Don't bother, it has nothing to do with them. You could try complaining
to the email service provider whose service was used to send the message
(not the 'from' address; that is easily faked and proves nothing; learn to
read the 'headers' of email and usenet messages).

> What about the messages that I get through various forums?


Look for 'Terms or Use' or similar notices, and 'contact us' or 'report
abuse here' links, if you are in a web forum. In usenet newsgroups such
as this one, you are on your own.

> The
> particular one that I fell for was posted on "43 things" a forum that
> I've come to trust.


Why would you trust stuff you chance across on a public web site where
who-knows-who can post God-knows-what?

They do seem to offer a personal 'block this user' option
<http://www.43things.com/about/view/faq#block-a-user> but they don't seem
to be interested in dealing with 'abuse reports' or 'complaints' - nor do
they accept any responsibility for harm you may come to in connection with
use of their site. See their 'Terms of Use' and 'Privacy Policy'. (Looks
to me as though that particular operation is really a front for collecting
information for use by 'marketing companies' such as Amazon, who appear to
be the main investors).

> 3) Should I get in touch with my ISP and let them know that somebody
> reported me for spam? What are the repercussions?
>
> I've never committed any such offenses, and I obviously don't want to
> start now.
>
> Thanks so much for your advice.


Wait and see if your ISP contacts you, or your internet connection stops
working. From what you've said here, your ISP will probably put you down
as 'just another sucker' and take no action unless they get lots of
complaints about you doing the same sort of thing in lot of places.

Whether what you did was 'illegal' depends on where you were when you did
it, or which country's or state's laws apply to your contract with your
ISP - it probaby wasn't illegal anywhere, but would be widely considered
'a nuisance' and individuals might have chosen to add you to their
personal list of 'blocked senders'. Particularly if you posted your dodgy
messages in usenet newsgroups that you don't normally take part in.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

tutorny@gmail.com 03-26-2007 06:22 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 

> Columbia has a whole section of pages about what you should and
> shouldn't be doing athttp://www.columbia.edu/cu/policy/ Columbia
> University maintains certain policies with regard to the use and
> security of its computer systems, networks and information resources.
> All users of these facilities are expected to be familiar with these
> policies and the consequences of violation.


Thank you very much for your advice.

Columbia is my employer, and therefore my ISP at work, where I
currently am. I am fully aware of the policies, and would never do
anything to defy that. Work responsibilities leave little time for
answering, or even reading, spam messages. Columbia also does a good
job filtering messages for us.

The ISP that I use at home is OptOnline. I'll check out their pages
to see if they have any info.

Thanks again.


Tester 03-26-2007 07:12 PM

Re: Questions about spam.
 
First, you should know that when you post through Google groups people
can see your location. You are at 128.59.101.129 which belongs to
Columbia University according to http://www.arin.net/whois

(arin.net manages IP's in North America)

If you were posting one of those chain letter-type schemes where you
pay and then get paid primarily for recruiting new suckers into the
scheme - that is called a "pyramid scam". It is illegal nearly
everywhere in the world.

If thousands pay one, then millions will pay thousands, billions (if
it actually got that far) pay millions and the bulk of the suckers
will be at the bottom of the pyramid and get cheated.

It works for you if you start it and don't get caught.

It doesn't really matter if something is being sold UNLESS it is being
sold to people who aren't joining the scheme. The money picture
doesn't change. No new money comes in except from new recruits and the
scheme is doomed to collapse.

There are legal multilevel schemes. For example, if you're an Avon
saleslady (most of them are female) and you recruit a new Avon
saleslady you will get paid a cut of your recruit's sales if your
recruit is good at selling Avon cosmetics to cosmetic users.

You are not getting paid because your recruit is good at recruiting
new salesladies who are going to buy cosmetics as part of their
membership kit who will recruit new salesladies who will...

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/c44/a49.html

New York State investment fraud laws including section 359-fff,
banning the promotion of "chain distributor schemes". (e.g. chain
letter postings)

http://www.usps.com/websites/depart/...d/chainlet.htm

If you send the money through the U.S. mails, by the way, the Postal
Inspection Service says it is an illegal lottery - you pay for what
ammounts to a tiny chance to win lots of money.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/200...feb27a_07.html

New York State Attorney General busts a pyramid scam in the Bronx.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



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