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=?Utf-8?B?RGF2aWVuQw==?= 12-10-2005 02:21 PM

Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Questi
 
I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my ranting
before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end.... (feel free as
I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good laugh from my
complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also for the length of
these first parts of this post before the questions which are essentially
useless except for the table of contents so you can use "Find" perhaps to get
to a question easier and know what its about beforehand .... I also hope im
forgiven for long sections with runalong scentences and other grammatical
errors ....

BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE if
the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE 48hr and
12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below to be
affordable or avalible to me.

Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even the
simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I really
should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just frequent
music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's Sonar
forum a lot... So.. ) :

Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
into account my configurations and application for 64x)

hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced into
making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I will love
or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your screename (which might
not be long unless I stay here posting with what help I may offer to people
now or in the future or one of the article writers answers me lol).


* = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES

---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
Questions
--1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full version ?

*--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable. If I
should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the right
specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components mentioned for
cheap.

--3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2 800FSB
Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling Options for
Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more intense)

--4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?

--5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not require
a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.

-III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the progression of
my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
decision and less than 48 for the others)


I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom takes
time to answer some or all of these questions.


__________________________________________________ _______________
Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x

its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and VST
plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read cakewalk's
article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of 64x
used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a 4.xx
with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::

Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft also
has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I think its
linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only 64bit Professional
Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio version) and mid-level
to million dollar major label rented or owned studios with PCs instead of
crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment, hence why protools is migrating
more to windows than it has since the 90s and its fairly recent first windows
versions period.

Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz ...
in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth (64bit
offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on yet, large
manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring ( ; ), 24bit
48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of the virtual
instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is dithered down with
top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of that quality (as you
hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the extreme digital coldness of
the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or broadcast .wav format as standard
for CD Audio.

The Main things Sonar relies on:

- Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program for
Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ... or
SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this. However
Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the ones that
combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar because
many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends it be installed
on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So backups via mass
quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer seriously or Bluray
needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk drive exclusive for
backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough space to hold a daily
incremental or other style of backup of only your audio projects, they are
not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas will stick in memory if they
arent frequently heard and the perfect take may never happen again) ... its
expensive for datarecovery from a bad disk .. and prevention is the best
investment.

- Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware and
my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card) has
64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for windows
recording hardware hands down.

- RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for the
style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that there are
rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled plugins), sampling (a
lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this greatly...
they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More Ram the Less CPU
stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU + 25% of the second to
100% of both when doing something such as Time Stretching or when several
tracks are involved... the problem also stems from resource hogs like
anti-virus, services for programs I installed that cant be killed, and
selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when I'm idle 84% is what I get
with only the necessary processes before Sonar is run ... Right now even with
WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster and the Delta's contyrol panels in
the system tray, diskeepers service, AOL's stupid unkillable processes like
hostmanager, port magic, my lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a fax and
answering machine program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro says I
have 83% RAM Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs almost
never use the Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority ...
nothing changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM usage
spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on when ram
drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing them
because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be stopped
because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless I luck out
and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure the process
ended after explorer crashed as it often does).

- CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated to
memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good for lots
of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks with lots
of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and simeltaneous audio
playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So in short the more CPU
the better.

NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their personal
benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds with
each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz 2mb L2
Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
Processors.

I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more out of
them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual 3.80ghz
or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if AMD becomes
signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be very biased with
either brand from what ive read despite AMDs endorsements from never heard of
b level signed artists/engineers/producers)
__________________________________________________ ________________


Question #1

I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when buying
a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if it's
OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.

I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am in
the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to 8 -
16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5 Producer
Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and only 64bit
Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda need to know the
price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't seem to find it
anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.

__________________________________________________ _______________
2nd Question.

I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped shipping
them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with lights and such.
Alienware's support team tried talking me into upgrading my motherboard,
processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron System but it would cost more than
selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it + maybe
a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont allow me to
upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system simply because of
the different case they are promoting even though the chasis is identical and
the cooling system fits my system's case (there isnt really much of a
difference at all). They've given me so much grief over not allowing me to
upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support tickets to get my warranty
voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and though the system runs great
aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot stand Alienware anymore.

The Current System I have has
- 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
- 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
- 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively for
2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense they
are on resources.
-Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
(spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
- 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
- Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE Channels,
SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com or under info
in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed specs..
- 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
- Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
- M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card

and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to the
question.

Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a Dell
Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell motherboard
and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there btw because of the
cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):
- 1 2.80ghz 2mb L2 800 FSB Pentium Xeon (which I will sell and replace with
the 2 Xeons from the Alienware)
- 2GB (2 DIMMS) of DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz (which I will combine with the
RAM from the Alienware to total 4 for the time being) .. The System can Hold
16mb total RAM however at the time buying it with that much costs an extra
$18,000 so we're not going to go that route needless to say.

- A Free 19 inch Ultra Sharp (i think those are the plasma flatscreens for
dell) with the computer I plan to sell or to replace my 17inch LCD screen
with and sell that ... either would make me around 3 or 4 hundred bucks.
(which makes the system really worth it imo because that money can be put
into more RAM or other components)

- 1 160GB SATA 16mb Databurst (what is databurst btw) Cache 7200rpm HD
- Generic CD Drive I will replace along with the empty slots with my Burners
from the alienware (which originally came from a Dell Dimension 84000 anyway).

- The Case is supposively quiet, but ive heard a Dimension XPS before and
those sound like an F'n Airplane. But I have Vantec Silent Fans I could steal
out the Alienware and put into the case if needed not like they are expensive
anyway.

- It has PCI Express and other high end card slots, I think about the same
amount as the alienware (several more USB and Firewire ports though).

- a 2TB Total SATA Storage Capacity

and plenty of other nice features... I could also go with the Dell Precision
670 nicknamed with a MT64 after it, no differences other than the options you
can have installed with the system (such as the maximum amount of RAM,
different software) except for one reallyyyyy big turn off and thats they
dont honor the free 19inch with that one just because it's in the catagory
for large buisnesses instead of Small to Medium Buisnesses. So Instead I'm
going with the Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 O/S option instead, of
course I'm going to Dual Boot, and also add another 400GB or maybe a 500GB
SATA drive or so to my system as well.

Do you think that buying the dell is worth it or is there a motherboard out
there that would fit inside the alienware (i beleive the size of the board is
ATX Extended , Some people have simply called it Full Tower ... Alienware
refuses to provide me with the dimensions b/c they dont want to assist me in
voiding my warranty that ends in april ::rolls eyes:: )... Or Lets just say
Motherboard that will not be a downgrade from either of those system's
boards. The alienware may be limited to 4GB of Ram but it does have 6 SATA
ch. , 2 IDE ch., and SLI support ... The Dell has 4 SATA channels im unsure
about the IDE .. That isnt really important to me anyway, I plan on getting 2
SATA hot swap bays to make storage of projects and backups easier .. and
Windows 64bit stuff easier.

I have searched and Searched for a motherboard compatible with either Dual
3.80ghz Xeons which run faster than 2.80ghz Dualcore Xeons according to
benchmarks by many companies including dell, Same for the 3.60ghz Xeons. That
takes the same Ram type I have and holds at least 8GB - 16GB of RAM .. Has
the same amount and types of Card Slots as my X2 Motherboard occupied by the
Delta 1010, Video Card w/ SLI or whatever connecting 2 of them together is
called if not that, the Soundblaster audigy zs 2, and that does not have less
USB & Firewire ports than the Alienware b/c I already have to use a USB 2.0
Hub for certain things that are connected and disconnected often and other
things that shouldn't be ever disconnected b/c of their consistent use.

But my searches are either gotten confusing or returned nothing I can use.

But if I found such a board, I would have plenty of money for other items,
such as better processors, more ram, and some other cool stuff.

Or do you think I should simply wait on a new system holding more than 4GB
of RAM, Keep my Current Alienware System as is, Spend the money on 2 More GB
of RAM, a few more fast SATA Drives and or the hotswaps, maybe a lightscribe
compatible burner, and a cooling system that's quieter and universal ??

I think that with whatever is left over after taking what I need from the
Alienware to put on the Dell's Board and in whatever case ends up being used
... I would basically have another computer sans only RAM and a large HD. I
could probably make a profit off of buying this sell and selling the left
overs.

What do you guys think ?

I know some of you are far more superior in computer knowledge than myself
so any help would be greatly valued and appreciated.

Just keep in mind that Sonar 5 Producer Edition, All of My Hardware I will
be using, and some other applications (graphic design, photography, etc..)
would be used in 64bit too ... But I will be heavily using 32bit for Gaming &
Entertainment ... which is ideal ... I could have a hot Swap, external, or
internal Drive for Booting up either another Windows 32bit deticated to
creativity applications, no internet, no resource hogs ... 1 such drive for
64bit Windows when I need it, both of those Operating systems could acsess my
storage drives easily ... and Then My Main System, finally my precisious Disk
0 400GB Drive would be free to be exclusively for everything else without
interupting my programs that rely on precious CPU and RAM.
__________________________________________________ ________________
3rd Question - Potential Problems w/ RAM, 1MB Cache CPU Q's, and Cooling

Will using Dual 3.20ghz Xeons with an 1mb cache instead of a 2mb cache make
a huge difference in 64bit , at least until I can save up the $2000 or so it
will take to either get Dual Dual-core Xeons, or Dual 3.80ghz Xeons with a
2mb l2 cache. The Dell doesn't list that it supports a 1mb Cache however I
have seen plenty for sale on ebay with 1mb Cache processors that are 100%
legit refurbished systems. And will 4GB in 64bit and the 3GB 32bit uses
sometimes improve 32bit windows performance noticably at all ? I was also
warned by Aleinware that there might be potential problems when using more
than 4GB in a system with 32bit Windows but I think they're full of crap and
trying to hassel me into the expensive AMD upgrade they want me to take them
up and overpay them for.

Considering that I'm looking for more RAM and Higher Processors do you know
of trustworthy online stores with well priced used or brand new Xeons of
those types and anywhere that sells my type of ram for cheaper than nearly
$300 a stick of ECC registered. My Friend who works at infeneon can only get
me 512mb Dimms for free rarely of the right type, also I have 1 DIMM 1GB
sticks currently (this will later change when I need 1 Dimm 2GB - 4GB sticks
to get to 8, 12, or 16 GB of RAM)

And for my current Xeons and System im considering and or the alienware.
What is the best cost effective way to keep the system cool and quiet. The
systems fans and drives are already quiet and acoustic dampening makes them
inaudible ... But the Fans on my Xeons are so loud they can be picked up in
an almost soundproof Dead Room / Isolation Booth for recording vocals, amps,
and acoustic instruments that's about 5 feet away facing the side, part of my
desk, speakers, and studio monitors inbetween it.... If I use speedfan for
instance to lower the speed to 50% on each or slightly above they are silent
but I am afraid to see if the cooling in the case without the 100% fan rate
on the processors heatsinks will keep them cool enough when using intense
applications.

If you have questions about the current cooling of either system im
considering you can (please do so, I dont want to make this any longer) refer
to the alienware MJ12 7550i specs and dell percision 670 specs for fans (note
i cannot upgrade to the liquid cooling system alienware offers despite my
system being identical, its absurd, its made for my chasis, they just made a
new case for the same computer and discontinued the option for my case (which
is bigger, a full tower case, the big alienware signature ones)

If Fans are the option please elaborate on what fans, where to get them, or
their name/model. If Liquid cooling is the best option please do so as well
if you know of any. Or any solution at all is appreciated, I need it to be
quiet so I dont have to use isolation headphones to listen to music at a
reasonable level, or have bleedthrough on my mic even in the isolation booth.
Aside from Quiet it has to be as cool as it can be with the silence. I simply
don't know where to begin with a solution for this. I can't seem to find a
specific silent cooling system for a xeon and liquid cooling worried me
slightly about the chance of a leak. The fans with liquid fillaments seem
more viable but i think they are AMD exclusive.

__________________________________________________ __________________
4th Question

Can you mix DDR2 RAM in mixed pairs i.e. 2 1GB DIMMS , 4 512mb DIMMS, 1 4GB
DIMM ... And is all DDR2 ram Dual Channel, Dell's tech layout for the
percision say something about Dual Ranked Ram and lists it DDR2 PC23000 ECC
SDRAM like that without Dual Channel like other brands, but the specs also
say it supports Dual Channel DDR2 RAM PC3200 RAM ... One comment on it
confuses me however maybe you can clear it up for me along with the mixed
DIMMS.

__________________________________________________ _______________
These last few Questions are rather simple ..

5) Is this worth buying if its cheaper than the price it takes to purchase
it at the trial end
http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+X...aign=ZAT-00007
... There are also OEM and not OEM 3 versions for $110 on ebay ... all of
them are legit, but what is the difference ? There are boxed versions at more
like $400 as well. (and people trying to trick people into windows xp 32bit
pro with a 64x on the end but the description says it supports computers with
64bit technology and is really WinXP Pro SP2. Another ploy is trying to pass
Server 3000 off as 64x WinXP Pro... How dispicable)

6) I'm not sure if I asked, sorry if I did. Does anyone know if the power
supply and Dell Dimension 670's motherboard will fit in the alienware MJ12
7550i's chasis ?

7) If you found a motherboard for me so buying a new computer isn't
necessary for swapping parts then can you suggest some cases for it ? Also
where to look ? Or know if it will fit in my alienware case ATX Extended I
think is the size reference the chasis is a Full Tower if that helps at all.

8) If you didnt read the upgrade question and come across this. Do you think
an upgrade is necessary as far as a new board or PC goes or should I consider
buying processors and the 2 GB left out of the Maximum 4GB my current system
has ... as well as drives and acessories ... And wait for the 64bit systems
to become more mainstream ??? Will 4GB be that big of an improvement for such
a RAM intensive application im using ?

9) Where should I look for 64bit drivers besides 64AMD (or whatever that
sites name is I keep forgetting) , official sites, and for updates such as DX
plugins being avalible in 64x, Rewire as well, and when mp3s will be able to
be made in 64x. I beleive only WMA and WAV are supported formats for
rendering audio in 64x or with Sonar 5 in 64x.

10) Are there any other brands of computers that are reliable and cheaper
that may have what im looking for thats equal or a step or so up from the
system im looking at from dell ?

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] 12-10-2005 03:52 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Questi
 
You are not gonna get any answers with this. If the Trial expires, purchase
the full OEM version, boot from the CD and do a repair upgrade after
accepting the F8 License agreement.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

"DavienC" <DavienC@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:AA31B726-BAE9-4A6D-8EC6-2A72AC795C85@microsoft.com...
>I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
>ranting
> before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end.... (feel free
> as
> I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good laugh from my
> complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also for the length
> of
> these first parts of this post before the questions which are essentially
> useless except for the table of contents so you can use "Find" perhaps to
> get
> to a question easier and know what its about beforehand .... I also hope
> im
> forgiven for long sections with runalong scentences and other grammatical
> errors ....
>
> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE if
> the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE 48hr
> and
> 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below to be
> affordable or avalible to me.
>
> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even the
> simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I really
> should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just frequent
> music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's
> Sonar
> forum a lot... So.. ) :
>
> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
> into account my configurations and application for 64x)
>
> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
> into
> making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I will
> love
> or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your screename (which
> might
> not be long unless I stay here posting with what help I may offer to
> people
> now or in the future or one of the article writers answers me lol).
>
>
> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
>
> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
> Questions
> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full version
> ?
>
> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable. If
> I
> should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the right
> specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components mentioned
> for
> cheap.
>
> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
> 800FSB
> Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling Options for
> Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more intense)
>
> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
>
> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
> require
> a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
>
> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the progression
> of
> my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
> decision and less than 48 for the others)
>
>
> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
> takes
> time to answer some or all of these questions.
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>
> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and VST
> plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read cakewalk's
> article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of 64x
> used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a 4.xx
> with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::
>
> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft
> also
> has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I think its
> linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only 64bit
> Professional
> Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio version) and
> mid-level
> to million dollar major label rented or owned studios with PCs instead of
> crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment, hence why protools is
> migrating
> more to windows than it has since the 90s and its fairly recent first
> windows
> versions period.
>
> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz
> ...
> in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth (64bit
> offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on yet, large
> manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring ( ; ), 24bit
> 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of the virtual
> instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is dithered down
> with
> top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of that quality (as you
> hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the extreme digital coldness
> of
> the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or broadcast .wav format as standard
> for CD Audio.
>
> The Main things Sonar relies on:
>
> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program for
> Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
> Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ... or
> SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this. However
> Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the ones
> that
> combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar because
> many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends it be
> installed
> on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So backups via
> mass
> quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer seriously or
> Bluray
> needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk drive exclusive for
> backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough space to hold a
> daily
> incremental or other style of backup of only your audio projects, they are
> not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas will stick in memory if
> they
> arent frequently heard and the perfect take may never happen again) ...
> its
> expensive for datarecovery from a bad disk .. and prevention is the best
> investment.
>
> - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware
> and
> my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card) has
> 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for windows
> recording hardware hands down.
>
> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for the
> style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that there are
> rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled plugins), sampling
> (a
> lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this
> greatly...
> they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More Ram the Less
> CPU
> stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU + 25% of the second to
> 100% of both when doing something such as Time Stretching or when several
> tracks are involved... the problem also stems from resource hogs like
> anti-virus, services for programs I installed that cant be killed, and
> selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when I'm idle 84% is what I
> get
> with only the necessary processes before Sonar is run ... Right now even
> with
> WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster and the Delta's contyrol panels
> in
> the system tray, diskeepers service, AOL's stupid unkillable processes
> like
> hostmanager, port magic, my lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a fax
> and
> answering machine program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro says I
> have 83% RAM Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs almost
> never use the Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority ...
> nothing changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM
> usage
> spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on when
> ram
> drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing them
> because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be stopped
> because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless I luck
> out
> and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure the process
> ended after explorer crashed as it often does).
>
> - CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated to
> memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good for
> lots
> of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks with
> lots
> of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and simeltaneous audio
> playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So in short the more
> CPU
> the better.
>
> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their personal
> benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds with
> each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz 2mb
> L2
> Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
> Processors.
>
> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more out
> of
> them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual
> 3.80ghz
> or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if AMD becomes
> signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be very biased
> with
> either brand from what ive read despite AMDs endorsements from never heard
> of
> b level signed artists/engineers/producers)
> __________________________________________________ ________________
>
>
> Question #1
>
> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
> buying
> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if
> it's
> OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
>
> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am
> in
> the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to 8 -
> 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
> Producer
> Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and only 64bit
> Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda need to know
> the
> price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't seem to find it
> anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> 2nd Question.
>
> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped shipping
> them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with lights and such.
> Alienware's support team tried talking me into upgrading my motherboard,
> processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron System but it would cost more
> than
> selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it +
> maybe
> a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont allow me
> to
> upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system simply because of
> the different case they are promoting even though the chasis is identical
> and
> the cooling system fits my system's case (there isnt really much of a
> difference at all). They've given me so much grief over not allowing me to
> upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support tickets to get my warranty
> voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and though the system runs great
> aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot stand Alienware anymore.
>
> The Current System I have has
> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively
> for
> 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense they
> are on resources.
> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
> Channels,
> SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com or under
> info
> in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed specs..
> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
>
> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to the
> question.
>
> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
> Dell
> Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
> motherboard
> and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there btw because of
> the
> cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):
> - 1 2.80ghz 2mb L2 800 FSB Pentium Xeon (which I will sell and replace
> with
> the 2 Xeons from the Alienware)
> - 2GB (2 DIMMS) of DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz (which I will combine with the
> RAM from the Alienware to total 4 for the time being) .. The System can
> Hold
> 16mb total RAM however at the time buying it with that much costs an extra
> $18,000 so we're not going to go that route needless to say.
>
> - A Free 19 inch Ultra Sharp (i think those are the plasma flatscreens for
> dell) with the computer I plan to sell or to replace my 17inch LCD screen
> with and sell that ... either would make me around 3 or 4 hundred bucks.
> (which makes the system really worth it imo because that money can be put
> into more RAM or other components)
>
> - 1 160GB SATA 16mb Databurst (what is databurst btw) Cache 7200rpm HD
> - Generic CD Drive I will replace along with the empty slots with my
> Burners
> from the alienware (which originally came from a Dell Dimension 84000
> anyway).
>
> - The Case is supposively quiet, but ive heard a Dimension XPS before and
> those sound like an F'n Airplane. But I have Vantec Silent Fans I could
> steal
> out the Alienware and put into the case if needed not like they are
> expensive
> anyway.
>
> - It has PCI Express and other high end card slots, I think about the same
> amount as the alienware (several more USB and Firewire ports though).
>
> - a 2TB Total SATA Storage Capacity
>
> and plenty of other nice features... I could also go with the Dell
> Precision
> 670 nicknamed with a MT64 after it, no differences other than the options
> you
> can have installed with the system (such as the maximum amount of RAM,
> different software) except for one reallyyyyy big turn off and thats they
> dont honor the free 19inch with that one just because it's in the catagory
> for large buisnesses instead of Small to Medium Buisnesses. So Instead I'm
> going with the Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 O/S option instead,
> of
> course I'm going to Dual Boot, and also add another 400GB or maybe a 500GB
> SATA drive or so to my system as well.
>
> Do you think that buying the dell is worth it or is there a motherboard
> out
> there that would fit inside the alienware (i beleive the size of the board
> is
> ATX Extended , Some people have simply called it Full Tower ... Alienware
> refuses to provide me with the dimensions b/c they dont want to assist me
> in
> voiding my warranty that ends in april ::rolls eyes:: )... Or Lets just
> say
> Motherboard that will not be a downgrade from either of those system's
> boards. The alienware may be limited to 4GB of Ram but it does have 6 SATA
> ch. , 2 IDE ch., and SLI support ... The Dell has 4 SATA channels im
> unsure
> about the IDE .. That isnt really important to me anyway, I plan on
> getting 2
> SATA hot swap bays to make storage of projects and backups easier .. and
> Windows 64bit stuff easier.
>
> I have searched and Searched for a motherboard compatible with either Dual
> 3.80ghz Xeons which run faster than 2.80ghz Dualcore Xeons according to
> benchmarks by many companies including dell, Same for the 3.60ghz Xeons.
> That
> takes the same Ram type I have and holds at least 8GB - 16GB of RAM .. Has
> the same amount and types of Card Slots as my X2 Motherboard occupied by
> the
> Delta 1010, Video Card w/ SLI or whatever connecting 2 of them together is
> called if not that, the Soundblaster audigy zs 2, and that does not have
> less
> USB & Firewire ports than the Alienware b/c I already have to use a USB
> 2.0
> Hub for certain things that are connected and disconnected often and other
> things that shouldn't be ever disconnected b/c of their consistent use.
>
> But my searches are either gotten confusing or returned nothing I can use.
>
> But if I found such a board, I would have plenty of money for other items,
> such as better processors, more ram, and some other cool stuff.
>
> Or do you think I should simply wait on a new system holding more than 4GB
> of RAM, Keep my Current Alienware System as is, Spend the money on 2 More
> GB
> of RAM, a few more fast SATA Drives and or the hotswaps, maybe a
> lightscribe
> compatible burner, and a cooling system that's quieter and universal ??
>
> I think that with whatever is left over after taking what I need from the
> Alienware to put on the Dell's Board and in whatever case ends up being
> used
> .. I would basically have another computer sans only RAM and a large HD. I
> could probably make a profit off of buying this sell and selling the left
> overs.
>
> What do you guys think ?
>
> I know some of you are far more superior in computer knowledge than myself
> so any help would be greatly valued and appreciated.
>
> Just keep in mind that Sonar 5 Producer Edition, All of My Hardware I will
> be using, and some other applications (graphic design, photography, etc..)
> would be used in 64bit too ... But I will be heavily using 32bit for
> Gaming &
> Entertainment ... which is ideal ... I could have a hot Swap, external, or
> internal Drive for Booting up either another Windows 32bit deticated to
> creativity applications, no internet, no resource hogs ... 1 such drive
> for
> 64bit Windows when I need it, both of those Operating systems could acsess
> my
> storage drives easily ... and Then My Main System, finally my precisious
> Disk
> 0 400GB Drive would be free to be exclusively for everything else without
> interupting my programs that rely on precious CPU and RAM.
> __________________________________________________ ________________
> 3rd Question - Potential Problems w/ RAM, 1MB Cache CPU Q's, and Cooling
>
> Will using Dual 3.20ghz Xeons with an 1mb cache instead of a 2mb cache
> make
> a huge difference in 64bit , at least until I can save up the $2000 or so
> it
> will take to either get Dual Dual-core Xeons, or Dual 3.80ghz Xeons with a
> 2mb l2 cache. The Dell doesn't list that it supports a 1mb Cache however I
> have seen plenty for sale on ebay with 1mb Cache processors that are 100%
> legit refurbished systems. And will 4GB in 64bit and the 3GB 32bit uses
> sometimes improve 32bit windows performance noticably at all ? I was also
> warned by Aleinware that there might be potential problems when using more
> than 4GB in a system with 32bit Windows but I think they're full of crap
> and
> trying to hassel me into the expensive AMD upgrade they want me to take
> them
> up and overpay them for.
>
> Considering that I'm looking for more RAM and Higher Processors do you
> know
> of trustworthy online stores with well priced used or brand new Xeons of
> those types and anywhere that sells my type of ram for cheaper than nearly
> $300 a stick of ECC registered. My Friend who works at infeneon can only
> get
> me 512mb Dimms for free rarely of the right type, also I have 1 DIMM 1GB
> sticks currently (this will later change when I need 1 Dimm 2GB - 4GB
> sticks
> to get to 8, 12, or 16 GB of RAM)
>
> And for my current Xeons and System im considering and or the alienware.
> What is the best cost effective way to keep the system cool and quiet. The
> systems fans and drives are already quiet and acoustic dampening makes
> them
> inaudible ... But the Fans on my Xeons are so loud they can be picked up
> in
> an almost soundproof Dead Room / Isolation Booth for recording vocals,
> amps,
> and acoustic instruments that's about 5 feet away facing the side, part of
> my
> desk, speakers, and studio monitors inbetween it.... If I use speedfan for
> instance to lower the speed to 50% on each or slightly above they are
> silent
> but I am afraid to see if the cooling in the case without the 100% fan
> rate
> on the processors heatsinks will keep them cool enough when using intense
> applications.
>
> If you have questions about the current cooling of either system im
> considering you can (please do so, I dont want to make this any longer)
> refer
> to the alienware MJ12 7550i specs and dell percision 670 specs for fans
> (note
> i cannot upgrade to the liquid cooling system alienware offers despite my
> system being identical, its absurd, its made for my chasis, they just made
> a
> new case for the same computer and discontinued the option for my case
> (which
> is bigger, a full tower case, the big alienware signature ones)
>
> If Fans are the option please elaborate on what fans, where to get them,
> or
> their name/model. If Liquid cooling is the best option please do so as
> well
> if you know of any. Or any solution at all is appreciated, I need it to be
> quiet so I dont have to use isolation headphones to listen to music at a
> reasonable level, or have bleedthrough on my mic even in the isolation
> booth.
> Aside from Quiet it has to be as cool as it can be with the silence. I
> simply
> don't know where to begin with a solution for this. I can't seem to find a
> specific silent cooling system for a xeon and liquid cooling worried me
> slightly about the chance of a leak. The fans with liquid fillaments seem
> more viable but i think they are AMD exclusive.
>
> __________________________________________________ __________________
> 4th Question
>
> Can you mix DDR2 RAM in mixed pairs i.e. 2 1GB DIMMS , 4 512mb DIMMS, 1
> 4GB
> DIMM ... And is all DDR2 ram Dual Channel, Dell's tech layout for the
> percision say something about Dual Ranked Ram and lists it DDR2 PC23000
> ECC
> SDRAM like that without Dual Channel like other brands, but the specs also
> say it supports Dual Channel DDR2 RAM PC3200 RAM ... One comment on it
> confuses me however maybe you can clear it up for me along with the mixed
> DIMMS.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> These last few Questions are rather simple ..
>
> 5) Is this worth buying if its cheaper than the price it takes to purchase
> it at the trial end
> http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+X...aign=ZAT-00007
> ... There are also OEM and not OEM 3 versions for $110 on ebay ... all of
> them are legit, but what is the difference ? There are boxed versions at
> more
> like $400 as well. (and people trying to trick people into windows xp
> 32bit
> pro with a 64x on the end but the description says it supports computers
> with
> 64bit technology and is really WinXP Pro SP2. Another ploy is trying to
> pass
> Server 3000 off as 64x WinXP Pro... How dispicable)
>
> 6) I'm not sure if I asked, sorry if I did. Does anyone know if the power
> supply and Dell Dimension 670's motherboard will fit in the alienware MJ12
> 7550i's chasis ?
>
> 7) If you found a motherboard for me so buying a new computer isn't
> necessary for swapping parts then can you suggest some cases for it ? Also
> where to look ? Or know if it will fit in my alienware case ATX Extended I
> think is the size reference the chasis is a Full Tower if that helps at
> all.
>
> 8) If you didnt read the upgrade question and come across this. Do you
> think
> an upgrade is necessary as far as a new board or PC goes or should I
> consider
> buying processors and the 2 GB left out of the Maximum 4GB my current
> system
> has ... as well as drives and acessories ... And wait for the 64bit
> systems
> to become more mainstream ??? Will 4GB be that big of an improvement for
> such
> a RAM intensive application im using ?
>
> 9) Where should I look for 64bit drivers besides 64AMD (or whatever that
> sites name is I keep forgetting) , official sites, and for updates such as
> DX
> plugins being avalible in 64x, Rewire as well, and when mp3s will be able
> to
> be made in 64x. I beleive only WMA and WAV are supported formats for
> rendering audio in 64x or with Sonar 5 in 64x.
>
> 10) Are there any other brands of computers that are reliable and cheaper
> that may have what im looking for thats equal or a step or so up from the
> system im looking at from dell ?




Charlie Russel - MVP 12-10-2005 04:13 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Questi
 
Frankly, with an attitude like that, I have no interest in helping you. Try
asking a simple question, one to a message, without attitude, and you'll
find that there are lots of helpful people here.

There is no "trial version registration to full version". You buy x64
Edition and do an in place upgrade from the trial, or if the trial has
expired, a repair install. You get your x64 Edition from your favourite
system builder, or online at an outlet that also builds systems such as:
www.ncix.com
www.directron.com
www.newegg.com
www.zipzoomfly.com

All have been reported by those here to provide good service and good
prices.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64

DavienC wrote:
> I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
> ranting before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end....
> (feel free as I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good
> laugh from my complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also
> for the length of these first parts of this post before the questions
> which are essentially useless except for the table of contents so you can
> use "Find" perhaps to get to a question easier and know what its about
> beforehand .... I also hope im forgiven for long sections with runalong
> scentences and other grammatical errors ....
>
> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE if
> the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE 48hr
> and 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below
> to be affordable or avalible to me.
>
> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even the
> simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I really
> should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just frequent
> music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's
> Sonar forum a lot... So.. ) :
>
> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
> into account my configurations and application for 64x)
>
> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
> into making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I
> will love or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your
> screename (which might not be long unless I stay here posting with what
> help I may offer to people now or in the future or one of the article
> writers answers me lol).
>
>
> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
>
> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
> Questions
> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full
> version ?
>
> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable.
> If I should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the
> right specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components
> mentioned for cheap.
>
> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
> 800FSB Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling
> Options for Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more
> intense)
>
> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
>
> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
> require a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
>
> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the progression
> of my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
> decision and less than 48 for the others)
>
>
> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
> takes time to answer some or all of these questions.
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>
> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and VST
> plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read cakewalk's
> article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of 64x
> used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a 4.xx
> with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::
>
> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft
> also has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I
> think its linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only
> 64bit Professional Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio
> version) and mid-level to million dollar major label rented or owned
> studios with PCs instead of crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment,
> hence why protools is migrating more to windows than it has since the 90s
> and its fairly recent first windows versions period.
>
> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz
> ... in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth
> (64bit offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on
> yet, large manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring (
> ; ), 24bit 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of
> the virtual instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is
> dithered down with top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of
> that quality (as you hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the
> extreme digital coldness of the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or
> broadcast .wav format as standard for CD Audio.
>
> The Main things Sonar relies on:
>
> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program for
> Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
> Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ... or
> SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this. However
> Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the ones
> that combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar
> because many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends it
> be installed on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So
> backups via mass quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer
> seriously or Bluray needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk
> drive exclusive for backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough
> space to hold a daily incremental or other style of backup of only your
> audio projects, they are not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas
> will stick in memory if they arent frequently heard and the perfect take
> may never happen again) ... its expensive for datarecovery from a bad
> disk .. and prevention is the best investment.
>
> - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware
> and my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card)
> has 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for
> windows recording hardware hands down.
>
> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for the
> style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that there are
> rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled plugins), sampling
> (a lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this
> greatly... they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More
> Ram the Less CPU stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU +
> 25% of the second to 100% of both when doing something such as Time
> Stretching or when several tracks are involved... the problem also stems
> from resource hogs like anti-virus, services for programs I installed
> that cant be killed, and selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when
> I'm idle 84% is what I get with only the necessary processes before Sonar
> is run ... Right now even with WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster
> and the Delta's contyrol panels in the system tray, diskeepers service,
> AOL's stupid unkillable processes like hostmanager, port magic, my
> lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a fax and answering machine
> program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro says I have 83% RAM
> Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs almost never use the
> Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority ... nothing
> changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM usage
> spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on when
> ram drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing
> them because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be
> stopped because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless
> I luck out and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure
> the process ended after explorer crashed as it often does).
>
> - CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated to
> memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good for
> lots of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks
> with lots of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and
> simeltaneous audio playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So
> in short the more CPU the better.
>
> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their personal
> benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds with
> each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz 2mb
> L2 Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
> Processors.
>
> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more out
> of them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual
> 3.80ghz or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if
> AMD becomes signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be
> very biased with either brand from what ive read despite AMDs
> endorsements from never heard of b level signed
> artists/engineers/producers)
> __________________________________________________ ________________
>
>
> Question #1
>
> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
> buying
> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if
> it's OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
>
> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am
> in the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to
> 8 - 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
> Producer Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and
> only 64bit Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda
> need to know the price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't
> seem to find it anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> 2nd Question.
>
> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped shipping
> them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with lights and such.
> Alienware's support team tried talking me into upgrading my motherboard,
> processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron System but it would cost more
> than selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it
> + maybe a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont
> allow me to upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system
> simply because of the different case they are promoting even though the
> chasis is identical and the cooling system fits my system's case (there
> isnt really much of a difference at all). They've given me so much grief
> over not allowing me to upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support
> tickets to get my warranty voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and
> though the system runs great aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot
> stand Alienware anymore.
>
> The Current System I have has
> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively
> for 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense
> they are on resources.
> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
> Channels, SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com
> or under info in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed
> specs..
> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
>
> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to the
> question.
>
> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
> Dell Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
> motherboard and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there
> btw because of the cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):
> - 1 2.80ghz 2mb L2 800 FSB Pentium Xeon (which I will sell and replace
> with the 2 Xeons from the Alienware)
> - 2GB (2 DIMMS) of DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz (which I will combine with the
> RAM from the Alienware to total 4 for the time being) .. The System can
> Hold 16mb total RAM however at the time buying it with that much costs an
> extra $18,000 so we're not going to go that route needless to say.
>
> - A Free 19 inch Ultra Sharp (i think those are the plasma flatscreens for
> dell) with the computer I plan to sell or to replace my 17inch LCD screen
> with and sell that ... either would make me around 3 or 4 hundred bucks.
> (which makes the system really worth it imo because that money can be put
> into more RAM or other components)
>
> - 1 160GB SATA 16mb Databurst (what is databurst btw) Cache 7200rpm HD
> - Generic CD Drive I will replace along with the empty slots with my
> Burners from the alienware (which originally came from a Dell Dimension
> 84000 anyway).
>
> - The Case is supposively quiet, but ive heard a Dimension XPS before and
> those sound like an F'n Airplane. But I have Vantec Silent Fans I could
> steal out the Alienware and put into the case if needed not like they are
> expensive anyway.
>
> - It has PCI Express and other high end card slots, I think about the same
> amount as the alienware (several more USB and Firewire ports though).
>
> - a 2TB Total SATA Storage Capacity
>
> and plenty of other nice features... I could also go with the Dell
> Precision 670 nicknamed with a MT64 after it, no differences other than
> the options you can have installed with the system (such as the maximum
> amount of RAM, different software) except for one reallyyyyy big turn off
> and thats they dont honor the free 19inch with that one just because it's
> in the catagory for large buisnesses instead of Small to Medium
> Buisnesses. So Instead I'm going with the Windows XP Professional Service
> Pack 2 O/S option instead, of course I'm going to Dual Boot, and also add
> another 400GB or maybe a 500GB SATA drive or so to my system as well.
>
> Do you think that buying the dell is worth it or is there a motherboard
> out there that would fit inside the alienware (i beleive the size of the
> board is ATX Extended , Some people have simply called it Full Tower ...
> Alienware refuses to provide me with the dimensions b/c they dont want to
> assist me in voiding my warranty that ends in april ::rolls eyes:: )...
> Or Lets just say Motherboard that will not be a downgrade from either of
> those system's boards. The alienware may be limited to 4GB of Ram but it
> does have 6 SATA ch. , 2 IDE ch., and SLI support ... The Dell has 4
> SATA channels im unsure about the IDE .. That isnt really important to me
> anyway, I plan on getting 2 SATA hot swap bays to make storage of
> projects and backups easier .. and Windows 64bit stuff easier.
>
> I have searched and Searched for a motherboard compatible with either Dual
> 3.80ghz Xeons which run faster than 2.80ghz Dualcore Xeons according to
> benchmarks by many companies including dell, Same for the 3.60ghz Xeons.
> That takes the same Ram type I have and holds at least 8GB - 16GB of RAM
> .. Has the same amount and types of Card Slots as my X2 Motherboard
> occupied by the Delta 1010, Video Card w/ SLI or whatever connecting 2 of
> them together is called if not that, the Soundblaster audigy zs 2, and
> that does not have less USB & Firewire ports than the Alienware b/c I
> already have to use a USB 2.0 Hub for certain things that are connected
> and disconnected often and other things that shouldn't be ever
> disconnected b/c of their consistent use.
>
> But my searches are either gotten confusing or returned nothing I can use.
>
> But if I found such a board, I would have plenty of money for other items,
> such as better processors, more ram, and some other cool stuff.
>
> Or do you think I should simply wait on a new system holding more than 4GB
> of RAM, Keep my Current Alienware System as is, Spend the money on 2 More
> GB of RAM, a few more fast SATA Drives and or the hotswaps, maybe a
> lightscribe compatible burner, and a cooling system that's quieter and
> universal ??
>
> I think that with whatever is left over after taking what I need from the
> Alienware to put on the Dell's Board and in whatever case ends up being
> used .. I would basically have another computer sans only RAM and a large
> HD. I could probably make a profit off of buying this sell and selling
> the left overs.
>
> What do you guys think ?
>
> I know some of you are far more superior in computer knowledge than myself
> so any help would be greatly valued and appreciated.
>
> Just keep in mind that Sonar 5 Producer Edition, All of My Hardware I will
> be using, and some other applications (graphic design, photography, etc..)
> would be used in 64bit too ... But I will be heavily using 32bit for
> Gaming & Entertainment ... which is ideal ... I could have a hot Swap,
> external, or internal Drive for Booting up either another Windows 32bit
> deticated to creativity applications, no internet, no resource hogs ... 1
> such drive for 64bit Windows when I need it, both of those Operating
> systems could acsess my storage drives easily ... and Then My Main
> System, finally my precisious Disk 0 400GB Drive would be free to be
> exclusively for everything else without interupting my programs that rely
> on precious CPU and RAM.
> __________________________________________________ ________________ 3rd
> Question - Potential Problems w/ RAM, 1MB Cache CPU Q's, and Cooling
>
> Will using Dual 3.20ghz Xeons with an 1mb cache instead of a 2mb cache
> make
> a huge difference in 64bit , at least until I can save up the $2000 or so
> it will take to either get Dual Dual-core Xeons, or Dual 3.80ghz Xeons
> with a 2mb l2 cache. The Dell doesn't list that it supports a 1mb Cache
> however I have seen plenty for sale on ebay with 1mb Cache processors
> that are 100% legit refurbished systems. And will 4GB in 64bit and the
> 3GB 32bit uses sometimes improve 32bit windows performance noticably at
> all ? I was also warned by Aleinware that there might be potential
> problems when using more than 4GB in a system with 32bit Windows but I
> think they're full of crap and trying to hassel me into the expensive AMD
> upgrade they want me to take them up and overpay them for.
>
> Considering that I'm looking for more RAM and Higher Processors do you
> know of trustworthy online stores with well priced used or brand new
> Xeons of those types and anywhere that sells my type of ram for cheaper
> than nearly $300 a stick of ECC registered. My Friend who works at
> infeneon can only get me 512mb Dimms for free rarely of the right type,
> also I have 1 DIMM 1GB sticks currently (this will later change when I
> need 1 Dimm 2GB - 4GB sticks to get to 8, 12, or 16 GB of RAM)
>
> And for my current Xeons and System im considering and or the alienware.
> What is the best cost effective way to keep the system cool and quiet. The
> systems fans and drives are already quiet and acoustic dampening makes
> them inaudible ... But the Fans on my Xeons are so loud they can be
> picked up in an almost soundproof Dead Room / Isolation Booth for
> recording vocals, amps, and acoustic instruments that's about 5 feet away
> facing the side, part of my desk, speakers, and studio monitors inbetween
> it.... If I use speedfan for instance to lower the speed to 50% on each
> or slightly above they are silent but I am afraid to see if the cooling
> in the case without the 100% fan rate on the processors heatsinks will
> keep them cool enough when using intense applications.
>
> If you have questions about the current cooling of either system im
> considering you can (please do so, I dont want to make this any longer)
> refer to the alienware MJ12 7550i specs and dell percision 670 specs for
> fans (note i cannot upgrade to the liquid cooling system alienware offers
> despite my system being identical, its absurd, its made for my chasis,
> they just made a new case for the same computer and discontinued the
> option for my case (which is bigger, a full tower case, the big alienware
> signature ones)
>
> If Fans are the option please elaborate on what fans, where to get them,
> or their name/model. If Liquid cooling is the best option please do so
> as well if you know of any. Or any solution at all is appreciated, I need
> it to be quiet so I dont have to use isolation headphones to listen to
> music at a reasonable level, or have bleedthrough on my mic even in the
> isolation booth. Aside from Quiet it has to be as cool as it can be with
> the silence. I simply don't know where to begin with a solution for this.
> I can't seem to find a specific silent cooling system for a xeon and
> liquid cooling worried me slightly about the chance of a leak. The fans
> with liquid fillaments seem more viable but i think they are AMD
> exclusive.
>
> __________________________________________________ __________________
> 4th Question
>
> Can you mix DDR2 RAM in mixed pairs i.e. 2 1GB DIMMS , 4 512mb DIMMS, 1
> 4GB DIMM ... And is all DDR2 ram Dual Channel, Dell's tech layout for the
> percision say something about Dual Ranked Ram and lists it DDR2 PC23000
> ECC SDRAM like that without Dual Channel like other brands, but the specs
> also say it supports Dual Channel DDR2 RAM PC3200 RAM ... One comment on
> it confuses me however maybe you can clear it up for me along with the
> mixed DIMMS.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> These last few Questions are rather simple ..
>
> 5) Is this worth buying if its cheaper than the price it takes to purchase
> it at the trial end
> http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+X...aign=ZAT-00007
> ... There are also OEM and not OEM 3 versions for $110 on ebay ... all of
> them are legit, but what is the difference ? There are boxed versions at
> more like $400 as well. (and people trying to trick people into windows
> xp 32bit pro with a 64x on the end but the description says it supports
> computers with 64bit technology and is really WinXP Pro SP2. Another ploy
> is trying to pass Server 3000 off as 64x WinXP Pro... How dispicable)
>
> 6) I'm not sure if I asked, sorry if I did. Does anyone know if the power
> supply and Dell Dimension 670's motherboard will fit in the alienware MJ12
> 7550i's chasis ?
>
> 7) If you found a motherboard for me so buying a new computer isn't
> necessary for swapping parts then can you suggest some cases for it ? Also
> where to look ? Or know if it will fit in my alienware case ATX Extended I
> think is the size reference the chasis is a Full Tower if that helps at
> all.
>
> 8) If you didnt read the upgrade question and come across this. Do you
> think an upgrade is necessary as far as a new board or PC goes or should
> I consider buying processors and the 2 GB left out of the Maximum 4GB my
> current system has ... as well as drives and acessories ... And wait for
> the 64bit systems to become more mainstream ??? Will 4GB be that big of
> an improvement for such a RAM intensive application im using ?
>
> 9) Where should I look for 64bit drivers besides 64AMD (or whatever that
> sites name is I keep forgetting) , official sites, and for updates such
> as DX plugins being avalible in 64x, Rewire as well, and when mp3s will
> be able to be made in 64x. I beleive only WMA and WAV are supported
> formats for rendering audio in 64x or with Sonar 5 in 64x.
>
> 10) Are there any other brands of computers that are reliable and cheaper
> that may have what im looking for thats equal or a step or so up from the
> system im looking at from dell ?




John Barnes 12-10-2005 04:17 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Questi
 
:-)

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" <andred25@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%234dquGa$FHA.208@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> You are not gonna get any answers with this. If the Trial expires,
> purchase the full OEM version, boot from the CD and do a repair upgrade
> after accepting the F8 License agreement.
> --
> Andre
> Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
> Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
> http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
> FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
>
> "DavienC" <DavienC@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:AA31B726-BAE9-4A6D-8EC6-2A72AC795C85@microsoft.com...
>>I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
>>ranting
>> before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end.... (feel
>> free as
>> I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good laugh from my
>> complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also for the length
>> of
>> these first parts of this post before the questions which are essentially
>> useless except for the table of contents so you can use "Find" perhaps to
>> get
>> to a question easier and know what its about beforehand .... I also hope
>> im
>> forgiven for long sections with runalong scentences and other grammatical
>> errors ....
>>
>> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE if
>> the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE 48hr
>> and
>> 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below to be
>> affordable or avalible to me.
>>
>> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even
>> the
>> simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I really
>> should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just
>> frequent
>> music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's
>> Sonar
>> forum a lot... So.. ) :
>>
>> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
>> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
>> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
>> into account my configurations and application for 64x)
>>
>> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
>> into
>> making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I will
>> love
>> or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your screename (which
>> might
>> not be long unless I stay here posting with what help I may offer to
>> people
>> now or in the future or one of the article writers answers me lol).
>>
>>
>> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
>>
>> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
>> Questions
>> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full
>> version ?
>>
>> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable.
>> If I
>> should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the right
>> specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components mentioned
>> for
>> cheap.
>>
>> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
>> 800FSB
>> Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling Options for
>> Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more intense)
>>
>> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
>>
>> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
>> require
>> a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
>>
>> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the progression
>> of
>> my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
>> decision and less than 48 for the others)
>>
>>
>> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
>> takes
>> time to answer some or all of these questions.
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>>
>> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
>> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and VST
>> plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read cakewalk's
>> article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of 64x
>> used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a
>> 4.xx
>> with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::
>>
>> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
>> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft
>> also
>> has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I think
>> its
>> linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only 64bit
>> Professional
>> Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio version) and
>> mid-level
>> to million dollar major label rented or owned studios with PCs instead of
>> crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment, hence why protools is
>> migrating
>> more to windows than it has since the 90s and its fairly recent first
>> windows
>> versions period.
>>
>> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz
>> ...
>> in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth (64bit
>> offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on yet, large
>> manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring ( ; ), 24bit
>> 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of the virtual
>> instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is dithered down
>> with
>> top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of that quality (as
>> you
>> hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the extreme digital coldness
>> of
>> the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or broadcast .wav format as
>> standard
>> for CD Audio.
>>
>> The Main things Sonar relies on:
>>
>> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program for
>> Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
>> Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ... or
>> SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this. However
>> Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the ones
>> that
>> combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar
>> because
>> many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends it be
>> installed
>> on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So backups via
>> mass
>> quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer seriously or
>> Bluray
>> needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk drive exclusive for
>> backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough space to hold a
>> daily
>> incremental or other style of backup of only your audio projects, they
>> are
>> not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas will stick in memory if
>> they
>> arent frequently heard and the perfect take may never happen again) ...
>> its
>> expensive for datarecovery from a bad disk .. and prevention is the best
>> investment.
>>
>> - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
>> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware
>> and
>> my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card) has
>> 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for
>> windows
>> recording hardware hands down.
>>
>> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for
>> the
>> style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that there are
>> rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled plugins), sampling
>> (a
>> lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this
>> greatly...
>> they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More Ram the Less
>> CPU
>> stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU + 25% of the second
>> to
>> 100% of both when doing something such as Time Stretching or when
>> several
>> tracks are involved... the problem also stems from resource hogs like
>> anti-virus, services for programs I installed that cant be killed, and
>> selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when I'm idle 84% is what I
>> get
>> with only the necessary processes before Sonar is run ... Right now even
>> with
>> WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster and the Delta's contyrol
>> panels in
>> the system tray, diskeepers service, AOL's stupid unkillable processes
>> like
>> hostmanager, port magic, my lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a fax
>> and
>> answering machine program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro says I
>> have 83% RAM Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs almost
>> never use the Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority ...
>> nothing changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM
>> usage
>> spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on when
>> ram
>> drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing them
>> because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be stopped
>> because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless I luck
>> out
>> and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure the
>> process
>> ended after explorer crashed as it often does).
>>
>> - CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
>> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated
>> to
>> memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good for
>> lots
>> of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks with
>> lots
>> of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and simeltaneous
>> audio
>> playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So in short the more
>> CPU
>> the better.
>>
>> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their personal
>> benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds with
>> each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz 2mb
>> L2
>> Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
>> Processors.
>>
>> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more out
>> of
>> them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual
>> 3.80ghz
>> or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if AMD
>> becomes
>> signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be very biased
>> with
>> either brand from what ive read despite AMDs endorsements from never
>> heard of
>> b level signed artists/engineers/producers)
>> __________________________________________________ ________________
>>
>>
>> Question #1
>>
>> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
>> buying
>> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if
>> it's
>> OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
>>
>> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am
>> in
>> the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to 8 -
>> 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
>> Producer
>> Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and only 64bit
>> Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda need to know
>> the
>> price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't seem to find it
>> anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> 2nd Question.
>>
>> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped
>> shipping
>> them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with lights and
>> such.
>> Alienware's support team tried talking me into upgrading my motherboard,
>> processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron System but it would cost more
>> than
>> selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it +
>> maybe
>> a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont allow me
>> to
>> upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system simply because
>> of
>> the different case they are promoting even though the chasis is identical
>> and
>> the cooling system fits my system's case (there isnt really much of a
>> difference at all). They've given me so much grief over not allowing me
>> to
>> upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support tickets to get my
>> warranty
>> voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and though the system runs
>> great
>> aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot stand Alienware anymore.
>>
>> The Current System I have has
>> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
>> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
>> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively
>> for
>> 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense
>> they
>> are on resources.
>> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
>> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
>> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
>> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
>> Channels,
>> SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com or under
>> info
>> in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed specs..
>> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
>> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
>> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
>>
>> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to
>> the
>> question.
>>
>> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
>> Dell
>> Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
>> motherboard
>> and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there btw because of
>> the
>> cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):
>> - 1 2.80ghz 2mb L2 800 FSB Pentium Xeon (which I will sell and replace
>> with
>> the 2 Xeons from the Alienware)
>> - 2GB (2 DIMMS) of DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz (which I will combine with
>> the
>> RAM from the Alienware to total 4 for the time being) .. The System can
>> Hold
>> 16mb total RAM however at the time buying it with that much costs an
>> extra
>> $18,000 so we're not going to go that route needless to say.
>>
>> - A Free 19 inch Ultra Sharp (i think those are the plasma flatscreens
>> for
>> dell) with the computer I plan to sell or to replace my 17inch LCD screen
>> with and sell that ... either would make me around 3 or 4 hundred bucks.
>> (which makes the system really worth it imo because that money can be put
>> into more RAM or other components)
>>
>> - 1 160GB SATA 16mb Databurst (what is databurst btw) Cache 7200rpm HD
>> - Generic CD Drive I will replace along with the empty slots with my
>> Burners
>> from the alienware (which originally came from a Dell Dimension 84000
>> anyway).
>>
>> - The Case is supposively quiet, but ive heard a Dimension XPS before and
>> those sound like an F'n Airplane. But I have Vantec Silent Fans I could
>> steal
>> out the Alienware and put into the case if needed not like they are
>> expensive
>> anyway.
>>
>> - It has PCI Express and other high end card slots, I think about the
>> same
>> amount as the alienware (several more USB and Firewire ports though).
>>
>> - a 2TB Total SATA Storage Capacity
>>
>> and plenty of other nice features... I could also go with the Dell
>> Precision
>> 670 nicknamed with a MT64 after it, no differences other than the options
>> you
>> can have installed with the system (such as the maximum amount of RAM,
>> different software) except for one reallyyyyy big turn off and thats they
>> dont honor the free 19inch with that one just because it's in the
>> catagory
>> for large buisnesses instead of Small to Medium Buisnesses. So Instead
>> I'm
>> going with the Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 O/S option instead,
>> of
>> course I'm going to Dual Boot, and also add another 400GB or maybe a
>> 500GB
>> SATA drive or so to my system as well.
>>
>> Do you think that buying the dell is worth it or is there a motherboard
>> out
>> there that would fit inside the alienware (i beleive the size of the
>> board is
>> ATX Extended , Some people have simply called it Full Tower ...
>> Alienware
>> refuses to provide me with the dimensions b/c they dont want to assist me
>> in
>> voiding my warranty that ends in april ::rolls eyes:: )... Or Lets just
>> say
>> Motherboard that will not be a downgrade from either of those system's
>> boards. The alienware may be limited to 4GB of Ram but it does have 6
>> SATA
>> ch. , 2 IDE ch., and SLI support ... The Dell has 4 SATA channels im
>> unsure
>> about the IDE .. That isnt really important to me anyway, I plan on
>> getting 2
>> SATA hot swap bays to make storage of projects and backups easier .. and
>> Windows 64bit stuff easier.
>>
>> I have searched and Searched for a motherboard compatible with either
>> Dual
>> 3.80ghz Xeons which run faster than 2.80ghz Dualcore Xeons according to
>> benchmarks by many companies including dell, Same for the 3.60ghz Xeons.
>> That
>> takes the same Ram type I have and holds at least 8GB - 16GB of RAM ..
>> Has
>> the same amount and types of Card Slots as my X2 Motherboard occupied by
>> the
>> Delta 1010, Video Card w/ SLI or whatever connecting 2 of them together
>> is
>> called if not that, the Soundblaster audigy zs 2, and that does not have
>> less
>> USB & Firewire ports than the Alienware b/c I already have to use a USB
>> 2.0
>> Hub for certain things that are connected and disconnected often and
>> other
>> things that shouldn't be ever disconnected b/c of their consistent use.
>>
>> But my searches are either gotten confusing or returned nothing I can
>> use.
>>
>> But if I found such a board, I would have plenty of money for other
>> items,
>> such as better processors, more ram, and some other cool stuff.
>>
>> Or do you think I should simply wait on a new system holding more than
>> 4GB
>> of RAM, Keep my Current Alienware System as is, Spend the money on 2 More
>> GB
>> of RAM, a few more fast SATA Drives and or the hotswaps, maybe a
>> lightscribe
>> compatible burner, and a cooling system that's quieter and universal ??
>>
>> I think that with whatever is left over after taking what I need from the
>> Alienware to put on the Dell's Board and in whatever case ends up being
>> used
>> .. I would basically have another computer sans only RAM and a large HD.
>> I
>> could probably make a profit off of buying this sell and selling the left
>> overs.
>>
>> What do you guys think ?
>>
>> I know some of you are far more superior in computer knowledge than
>> myself
>> so any help would be greatly valued and appreciated.
>>
>> Just keep in mind that Sonar 5 Producer Edition, All of My Hardware I
>> will
>> be using, and some other applications (graphic design, photography,
>> etc..)
>> would be used in 64bit too ... But I will be heavily using 32bit for
>> Gaming &
>> Entertainment ... which is ideal ... I could have a hot Swap, external,
>> or
>> internal Drive for Booting up either another Windows 32bit deticated to
>> creativity applications, no internet, no resource hogs ... 1 such drive
>> for
>> 64bit Windows when I need it, both of those Operating systems could
>> acsess my
>> storage drives easily ... and Then My Main System, finally my precisious
>> Disk
>> 0 400GB Drive would be free to be exclusively for everything else without
>> interupting my programs that rely on precious CPU and RAM.
>> __________________________________________________ ________________
>> 3rd Question - Potential Problems w/ RAM, 1MB Cache CPU Q's, and Cooling
>>
>> Will using Dual 3.20ghz Xeons with an 1mb cache instead of a 2mb cache
>> make
>> a huge difference in 64bit , at least until I can save up the $2000 or so
>> it
>> will take to either get Dual Dual-core Xeons, or Dual 3.80ghz Xeons with
>> a
>> 2mb l2 cache. The Dell doesn't list that it supports a 1mb Cache however
>> I
>> have seen plenty for sale on ebay with 1mb Cache processors that are 100%
>> legit refurbished systems. And will 4GB in 64bit and the 3GB 32bit uses
>> sometimes improve 32bit windows performance noticably at all ? I was also
>> warned by Aleinware that there might be potential problems when using
>> more
>> than 4GB in a system with 32bit Windows but I think they're full of crap
>> and
>> trying to hassel me into the expensive AMD upgrade they want me to take
>> them
>> up and overpay them for.
>>
>> Considering that I'm looking for more RAM and Higher Processors do you
>> know
>> of trustworthy online stores with well priced used or brand new Xeons of
>> those types and anywhere that sells my type of ram for cheaper than
>> nearly
>> $300 a stick of ECC registered. My Friend who works at infeneon can only
>> get
>> me 512mb Dimms for free rarely of the right type, also I have 1 DIMM 1GB
>> sticks currently (this will later change when I need 1 Dimm 2GB - 4GB
>> sticks
>> to get to 8, 12, or 16 GB of RAM)
>>
>> And for my current Xeons and System im considering and or the alienware.
>> What is the best cost effective way to keep the system cool and quiet.
>> The
>> systems fans and drives are already quiet and acoustic dampening makes
>> them
>> inaudible ... But the Fans on my Xeons are so loud they can be picked up
>> in
>> an almost soundproof Dead Room / Isolation Booth for recording vocals,
>> amps,
>> and acoustic instruments that's about 5 feet away facing the side, part
>> of my
>> desk, speakers, and studio monitors inbetween it.... If I use speedfan
>> for
>> instance to lower the speed to 50% on each or slightly above they are
>> silent
>> but I am afraid to see if the cooling in the case without the 100% fan
>> rate
>> on the processors heatsinks will keep them cool enough when using intense
>> applications.
>>
>> If you have questions about the current cooling of either system im
>> considering you can (please do so, I dont want to make this any longer)
>> refer
>> to the alienware MJ12 7550i specs and dell percision 670 specs for fans
>> (note
>> i cannot upgrade to the liquid cooling system alienware offers despite my
>> system being identical, its absurd, its made for my chasis, they just
>> made a
>> new case for the same computer and discontinued the option for my case
>> (which
>> is bigger, a full tower case, the big alienware signature ones)
>>
>> If Fans are the option please elaborate on what fans, where to get them,
>> or
>> their name/model. If Liquid cooling is the best option please do so as
>> well
>> if you know of any. Or any solution at all is appreciated, I need it to
>> be
>> quiet so I dont have to use isolation headphones to listen to music at a
>> reasonable level, or have bleedthrough on my mic even in the isolation
>> booth.
>> Aside from Quiet it has to be as cool as it can be with the silence. I
>> simply
>> don't know where to begin with a solution for this. I can't seem to find
>> a
>> specific silent cooling system for a xeon and liquid cooling worried me
>> slightly about the chance of a leak. The fans with liquid fillaments seem
>> more viable but i think they are AMD exclusive.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ __________________
>> 4th Question
>>
>> Can you mix DDR2 RAM in mixed pairs i.e. 2 1GB DIMMS , 4 512mb DIMMS, 1
>> 4GB
>> DIMM ... And is all DDR2 ram Dual Channel, Dell's tech layout for the
>> percision say something about Dual Ranked Ram and lists it DDR2 PC23000
>> ECC
>> SDRAM like that without Dual Channel like other brands, but the specs
>> also
>> say it supports Dual Channel DDR2 RAM PC3200 RAM ... One comment on it
>> confuses me however maybe you can clear it up for me along with the mixed
>> DIMMS.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> These last few Questions are rather simple ..
>>
>> 5) Is this worth buying if its cheaper than the price it takes to
>> purchase
>> it at the trial end
>> http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+X...aign=ZAT-00007
>> ... There are also OEM and not OEM 3 versions for $110 on ebay ... all of
>> them are legit, but what is the difference ? There are boxed versions at
>> more
>> like $400 as well. (and people trying to trick people into windows xp
>> 32bit
>> pro with a 64x on the end but the description says it supports computers
>> with
>> 64bit technology and is really WinXP Pro SP2. Another ploy is trying to
>> pass
>> Server 3000 off as 64x WinXP Pro... How dispicable)
>>
>> 6) I'm not sure if I asked, sorry if I did. Does anyone know if the power
>> supply and Dell Dimension 670's motherboard will fit in the alienware
>> MJ12
>> 7550i's chasis ?
>>
>> 7) If you found a motherboard for me so buying a new computer isn't
>> necessary for swapping parts then can you suggest some cases for it ?
>> Also
>> where to look ? Or know if it will fit in my alienware case ATX Extended
>> I
>> think is the size reference the chasis is a Full Tower if that helps at
>> all.
>>
>> 8) If you didnt read the upgrade question and come across this. Do you
>> think
>> an upgrade is necessary as far as a new board or PC goes or should I
>> consider
>> buying processors and the 2 GB left out of the Maximum 4GB my current
>> system
>> has ... as well as drives and acessories ... And wait for the 64bit
>> systems
>> to become more mainstream ??? Will 4GB be that big of an improvement for
>> such
>> a RAM intensive application im using ?
>>
>> 9) Where should I look for 64bit drivers besides 64AMD (or whatever that
>> sites name is I keep forgetting) , official sites, and for updates such
>> as DX
>> plugins being avalible in 64x, Rewire as well, and when mp3s will be able
>> to
>> be made in 64x. I beleive only WMA and WAV are supported formats for
>> rendering audio in 64x or with Sonar 5 in 64x.
>>
>> 10) Are there any other brands of computers that are reliable and cheaper
>> that may have what im looking for thats equal or a step or so up from the
>> system im looking at from dell ?

>
>




Colin Barnhorst 12-10-2005 04:43 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Questi
 
No way are volunteers in the newsgroup going to read this waste of
bandwidth. What is your question in a single sentence?

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
"DavienC" <DavienC@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:AA31B726-BAE9-4A6D-8EC6-2A72AC795C85@microsoft.com...
>I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
>ranting
> before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end.... (feel free
> as
> I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good laugh from my
> complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also for the length
> of
> these first parts of this post before the questions which are essentially
> useless except for the table of contents so you can use "Find" perhaps to
> get
> to a question easier and know what its about beforehand .... I also hope
> im
> forgiven for long sections with runalong scentences and other grammatical
> errors ....
>
> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE if
> the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE 48hr
> and
> 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below to be
> affordable or avalible to me.
>
> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even the
> simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I really
> should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just frequent
> music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's
> Sonar
> forum a lot... So.. ) :
>
> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
> into account my configurations and application for 64x)
>
> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
> into
> making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I will
> love
> or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your screename (which
> might
> not be long unless I stay here posting with what help I may offer to
> people
> now or in the future or one of the article writers answers me lol).
>
>
> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
>
> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
> Questions
> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full version
> ?
>
> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable. If
> I
> should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the right
> specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components mentioned
> for
> cheap.
>
> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
> 800FSB
> Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling Options for
> Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more intense)
>
> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
>
> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
> require
> a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
>
> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the progression
> of
> my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
> decision and less than 48 for the others)
>
>
> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
> takes
> time to answer some or all of these questions.
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>
> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and VST
> plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read cakewalk's
> article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of 64x
> used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a 4.xx
> with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::
>
> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft
> also
> has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I think its
> linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only 64bit
> Professional
> Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio version) and
> mid-level
> to million dollar major label rented or owned studios with PCs instead of
> crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment, hence why protools is
> migrating
> more to windows than it has since the 90s and its fairly recent first
> windows
> versions period.
>
> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz
> ...
> in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth (64bit
> offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on yet, large
> manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring ( ; ), 24bit
> 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of the virtual
> instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is dithered down
> with
> top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of that quality (as you
> hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the extreme digital coldness
> of
> the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or broadcast .wav format as standard
> for CD Audio.
>
> The Main things Sonar relies on:
>
> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program for
> Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
> Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ... or
> SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this. However
> Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the ones
> that
> combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar because
> many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends it be
> installed
> on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So backups via
> mass
> quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer seriously or
> Bluray
> needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk drive exclusive for
> backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough space to hold a
> daily
> incremental or other style of backup of only your audio projects, they are
> not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas will stick in memory if
> they
> arent frequently heard and the perfect take may never happen again) ...
> its
> expensive for datarecovery from a bad disk .. and prevention is the best
> investment.
>
> - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware
> and
> my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card) has
> 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for windows
> recording hardware hands down.
>
> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for the
> style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that there are
> rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled plugins), sampling
> (a
> lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this
> greatly...
> they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More Ram the Less
> CPU
> stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU + 25% of the second to
> 100% of both when doing something such as Time Stretching or when several
> tracks are involved... the problem also stems from resource hogs like
> anti-virus, services for programs I installed that cant be killed, and
> selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when I'm idle 84% is what I
> get
> with only the necessary processes before Sonar is run ... Right now even
> with
> WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster and the Delta's contyrol panels
> in
> the system tray, diskeepers service, AOL's stupid unkillable processes
> like
> hostmanager, port magic, my lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a fax
> and
> answering machine program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro says I
> have 83% RAM Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs almost
> never use the Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority ...
> nothing changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM
> usage
> spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on when
> ram
> drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing them
> because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be stopped
> because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless I luck
> out
> and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure the process
> ended after explorer crashed as it often does).
>
> - CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated to
> memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good for
> lots
> of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks with
> lots
> of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and simeltaneous audio
> playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So in short the more
> CPU
> the better.
>
> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their personal
> benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds with
> each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz 2mb
> L2
> Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
> Processors.
>
> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more out
> of
> them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual
> 3.80ghz
> or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if AMD becomes
> signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be very biased
> with
> either brand from what ive read despite AMDs endorsements from never heard
> of
> b level signed artists/engineers/producers)
> __________________________________________________ ________________
>
>
> Question #1
>
> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
> buying
> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if
> it's
> OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
>
> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am
> in
> the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to 8 -
> 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
> Producer
> Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and only 64bit
> Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda need to know
> the
> price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't seem to find it
> anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> 2nd Question.
>
> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped shipping
> them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with lights and such.
> Alienware's support team tried talking me into upgrading my motherboard,
> processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron System but it would cost more
> than
> selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it +
> maybe
> a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont allow me
> to
> upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system simply because of
> the different case they are promoting even though the chasis is identical
> and
> the cooling system fits my system's case (there isnt really much of a
> difference at all). They've given me so much grief over not allowing me to
> upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support tickets to get my warranty
> voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and though the system runs great
> aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot stand Alienware anymore.
>
> The Current System I have has
> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively
> for
> 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense they
> are on resources.
> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
> Channels,
> SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com or under
> info
> in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed specs..
> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
>
> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to the
> question.
>
> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
> Dell
> Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
> motherboard
> and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there btw because of
> the
> cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):
> - 1 2.80ghz 2mb L2 800 FSB Pentium Xeon (which I will sell and replace
> with
> the 2 Xeons from the Alienware)
> - 2GB (2 DIMMS) of DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz (which I will combine with the
> RAM from the Alienware to total 4 for the time being) .. The System can
> Hold
> 16mb total RAM however at the time buying it with that much costs an extra
> $18,000 so we're not going to go that route needless to say.
>
> - A Free 19 inch Ultra Sharp (i think those are the plasma flatscreens for
> dell) with the computer I plan to sell or to replace my 17inch LCD screen
> with and sell that ... either would make me around 3 or 4 hundred bucks.
> (which makes the system really worth it imo because that money can be put
> into more RAM or other components)
>
> - 1 160GB SATA 16mb Databurst (what is databurst btw) Cache 7200rpm HD
> - Generic CD Drive I will replace along with the empty slots with my
> Burners
> from the alienware (which originally came from a Dell Dimension 84000
> anyway).
>
> - The Case is supposively quiet, but ive heard a Dimension XPS before and
> those sound like an F'n Airplane. But I have Vantec Silent Fans I could
> steal
> out the Alienware and put into the case if needed not like they are
> expensive
> anyway.
>
> - It has PCI Express and other high end card slots, I think about the same
> amount as the alienware (several more USB and Firewire ports though).
>
> - a 2TB Total SATA Storage Capacity
>
> and plenty of other nice features... I could also go with the Dell
> Precision
> 670 nicknamed with a MT64 after it, no differences other than the options
> you
> can have installed with the system (such as the maximum amount of RAM,
> different software) except for one reallyyyyy big turn off and thats they
> dont honor the free 19inch with that one just because it's in the catagory
> for large buisnesses instead of Small to Medium Buisnesses. So Instead I'm
> going with the Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 O/S option instead,
> of
> course I'm going to Dual Boot, and also add another 400GB or maybe a 500GB
> SATA drive or so to my system as well.
>
> Do you think that buying the dell is worth it or is there a motherboard
> out
> there that would fit inside the alienware (i beleive the size of the board
> is
> ATX Extended , Some people have simply called it Full Tower ... Alienware
> refuses to provide me with the dimensions b/c they dont want to assist me
> in
> voiding my warranty that ends in april ::rolls eyes:: )... Or Lets just
> say
> Motherboard that will not be a downgrade from either of those system's
> boards. The alienware may be limited to 4GB of Ram but it does have 6 SATA
> ch. , 2 IDE ch., and SLI support ... The Dell has 4 SATA channels im
> unsure
> about the IDE .. That isnt really important to me anyway, I plan on
> getting 2
> SATA hot swap bays to make storage of projects and backups easier .. and
> Windows 64bit stuff easier.
>
> I have searched and Searched for a motherboard compatible with either Dual
> 3.80ghz Xeons which run faster than 2.80ghz Dualcore Xeons according to
> benchmarks by many companies including dell, Same for the 3.60ghz Xeons.
> That
> takes the same Ram type I have and holds at least 8GB - 16GB of RAM .. Has
> the same amount and types of Card Slots as my X2 Motherboard occupied by
> the
> Delta 1010, Video Card w/ SLI or whatever connecting 2 of them together is
> called if not that, the Soundblaster audigy zs 2, and that does not have
> less
> USB & Firewire ports than the Alienware b/c I already have to use a USB
> 2.0
> Hub for certain things that are connected and disconnected often and other
> things that shouldn't be ever disconnected b/c of their consistent use.
>
> But my searches are either gotten confusing or returned nothing I can use.
>
> But if I found such a board, I would have plenty of money for other items,
> such as better processors, more ram, and some other cool stuff.
>
> Or do you think I should simply wait on a new system holding more than 4GB
> of RAM, Keep my Current Alienware System as is, Spend the money on 2 More
> GB
> of RAM, a few more fast SATA Drives and or the hotswaps, maybe a
> lightscribe
> compatible burner, and a cooling system that's quieter and universal ??
>
> I think that with whatever is left over after taking what I need from the
> Alienware to put on the Dell's Board and in whatever case ends up being
> used
> .. I would basically have another computer sans only RAM and a large HD. I
> could probably make a profit off of buying this sell and selling the left
> overs.
>
> What do you guys think ?
>
> I know some of you are far more superior in computer knowledge than myself
> so any help would be greatly valued and appreciated.
>
> Just keep in mind that Sonar 5 Producer Edition, All of My Hardware I will
> be using, and some other applications (graphic design, photography, etc..)
> would be used in 64bit too ... But I will be heavily using 32bit for
> Gaming &
> Entertainment ... which is ideal ... I could have a hot Swap, external, or
> internal Drive for Booting up either another Windows 32bit deticated to
> creativity applications, no internet, no resource hogs ... 1 such drive
> for
> 64bit Windows when I need it, both of those Operating systems could acsess
> my
> storage drives easily ... and Then My Main System, finally my precisious
> Disk
> 0 400GB Drive would be free to be exclusively for everything else without
> interupting my programs that rely on precious CPU and RAM.
> __________________________________________________ ________________
> 3rd Question - Potential Problems w/ RAM, 1MB Cache CPU Q's, and Cooling
>
> Will using Dual 3.20ghz Xeons with an 1mb cache instead of a 2mb cache
> make
> a huge difference in 64bit , at least until I can save up the $2000 or so
> it
> will take to either get Dual Dual-core Xeons, or Dual 3.80ghz Xeons with a
> 2mb l2 cache. The Dell doesn't list that it supports a 1mb Cache however I
> have seen plenty for sale on ebay with 1mb Cache processors that are 100%
> legit refurbished systems. And will 4GB in 64bit and the 3GB 32bit uses
> sometimes improve 32bit windows performance noticably at all ? I was also
> warned by Aleinware that there might be potential problems when using more
> than 4GB in a system with 32bit Windows but I think they're full of crap
> and
> trying to hassel me into the expensive AMD upgrade they want me to take
> them
> up and overpay them for.
>
> Considering that I'm looking for more RAM and Higher Processors do you
> know
> of trustworthy online stores with well priced used or brand new Xeons of
> those types and anywhere that sells my type of ram for cheaper than nearly
> $300 a stick of ECC registered. My Friend who works at infeneon can only
> get
> me 512mb Dimms for free rarely of the right type, also I have 1 DIMM 1GB
> sticks currently (this will later change when I need 1 Dimm 2GB - 4GB
> sticks
> to get to 8, 12, or 16 GB of RAM)
>
> And for my current Xeons and System im considering and or the alienware.
> What is the best cost effective way to keep the system cool and quiet. The
> systems fans and drives are already quiet and acoustic dampening makes
> them
> inaudible ... But the Fans on my Xeons are so loud they can be picked up
> in
> an almost soundproof Dead Room / Isolation Booth for recording vocals,
> amps,
> and acoustic instruments that's about 5 feet away facing the side, part of
> my
> desk, speakers, and studio monitors inbetween it.... If I use speedfan for
> instance to lower the speed to 50% on each or slightly above they are
> silent
> but I am afraid to see if the cooling in the case without the 100% fan
> rate
> on the processors heatsinks will keep them cool enough when using intense
> applications.
>
> If you have questions about the current cooling of either system im
> considering you can (please do so, I dont want to make this any longer)
> refer
> to the alienware MJ12 7550i specs and dell percision 670 specs for fans
> (note
> i cannot upgrade to the liquid cooling system alienware offers despite my
> system being identical, its absurd, its made for my chasis, they just made
> a
> new case for the same computer and discontinued the option for my case
> (which
> is bigger, a full tower case, the big alienware signature ones)
>
> If Fans are the option please elaborate on what fans, where to get them,
> or
> their name/model. If Liquid cooling is the best option please do so as
> well
> if you know of any. Or any solution at all is appreciated, I need it to be
> quiet so I dont have to use isolation headphones to listen to music at a
> reasonable level, or have bleedthrough on my mic even in the isolation
> booth.
> Aside from Quiet it has to be as cool as it can be with the silence. I
> simply
> don't know where to begin with a solution for this. I can't seem to find a
> specific silent cooling system for a xeon and liquid cooling worried me
> slightly about the chance of a leak. The fans with liquid fillaments seem
> more viable but i think they are AMD exclusive.
>
> __________________________________________________ __________________
> 4th Question
>
> Can you mix DDR2 RAM in mixed pairs i.e. 2 1GB DIMMS , 4 512mb DIMMS, 1
> 4GB
> DIMM ... And is all DDR2 ram Dual Channel, Dell's tech layout for the
> percision say something about Dual Ranked Ram and lists it DDR2 PC23000
> ECC
> SDRAM like that without Dual Channel like other brands, but the specs also
> say it supports Dual Channel DDR2 RAM PC3200 RAM ... One comment on it
> confuses me however maybe you can clear it up for me along with the mixed
> DIMMS.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> These last few Questions are rather simple ..
>
> 5) Is this worth buying if its cheaper than the price it takes to purchase
> it at the trial end
> http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+X...aign=ZAT-00007
> ... There are also OEM and not OEM 3 versions for $110 on ebay ... all of
> them are legit, but what is the difference ? There are boxed versions at
> more
> like $400 as well. (and people trying to trick people into windows xp
> 32bit
> pro with a 64x on the end but the description says it supports computers
> with
> 64bit technology and is really WinXP Pro SP2. Another ploy is trying to
> pass
> Server 3000 off as 64x WinXP Pro... How dispicable)
>
> 6) I'm not sure if I asked, sorry if I did. Does anyone know if the power
> supply and Dell Dimension 670's motherboard will fit in the alienware MJ12
> 7550i's chasis ?
>
> 7) If you found a motherboard for me so buying a new computer isn't
> necessary for swapping parts then can you suggest some cases for it ? Also
> where to look ? Or know if it will fit in my alienware case ATX Extended I
> think is the size reference the chasis is a Full Tower if that helps at
> all.
>
> 8) If you didnt read the upgrade question and come across this. Do you
> think
> an upgrade is necessary as far as a new board or PC goes or should I
> consider
> buying processors and the 2 GB left out of the Maximum 4GB my current
> system
> has ... as well as drives and acessories ... And wait for the 64bit
> systems
> to become more mainstream ??? Will 4GB be that big of an improvement for
> such
> a RAM intensive application im using ?
>
> 9) Where should I look for 64bit drivers besides 64AMD (or whatever that
> sites name is I keep forgetting) , official sites, and for updates such as
> DX
> plugins being avalible in 64x, Rewire as well, and when mp3s will be able
> to
> be made in 64x. I beleive only WMA and WAV are supported formats for
> rendering audio in 64x or with Sonar 5 in 64x.
>
> 10) Are there any other brands of computers that are reliable and cheaper
> that may have what im looking for thats equal or a step or so up from the
> system im looking at from dell ?




Andre Da Costa [Extended64] 12-10-2005 04:46 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Questi
 
Colin told me about this one: http://www.planetamd64.com/catalog
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message
news:uzEUhTa$FHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Frankly, with an attitude like that, I have no interest in helping you.
> Try asking a simple question, one to a message, without attitude, and
> you'll find that there are lots of helpful people here.
>
> There is no "trial version registration to full version". You buy x64
> Edition and do an in place upgrade from the trial, or if the trial has
> expired, a repair install. You get your x64 Edition from your favourite
> system builder, or online at an outlet that also builds systems such as:
> www.ncix.com
> www.directron.com
> www.newegg.com
> www.zipzoomfly.com
>
> All have been reported by those here to provide good service and good
> prices.
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
>
> DavienC wrote:
>> I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
>> ranting before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end....
>> (feel free as I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good
>> laugh from my complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also
>> for the length of these first parts of this post before the questions
>> which are essentially useless except for the table of contents so you can
>> use "Find" perhaps to get to a question easier and know what its about
>> beforehand .... I also hope im forgiven for long sections with runalong
>> scentences and other grammatical errors ....
>>
>> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE if
>> the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE 48hr
>> and 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below
>> to be affordable or avalible to me.
>>
>> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even
>> the
>> simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I really
>> should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just
>> frequent
>> music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's
>> Sonar forum a lot... So.. ) :
>>
>> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
>> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
>> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
>> into account my configurations and application for 64x)
>>
>> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
>> into making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I
>> will love or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your
>> screename (which might not be long unless I stay here posting with what
>> help I may offer to people now or in the future or one of the article
>> writers answers me lol).
>>
>>
>> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
>>
>> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
>> Questions
>> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full
>> version ?
>>
>> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable.
>> If I should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the
>> right specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components
>> mentioned for cheap.
>>
>> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
>> 800FSB Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling
>> Options for Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more
>> intense)
>>
>> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
>>
>> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
>> require a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
>>
>> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the progression
>> of my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
>> decision and less than 48 for the others)
>>
>>
>> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
>> takes time to answer some or all of these questions.
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>>
>> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
>> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and VST
>> plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read cakewalk's
>> article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of 64x
>> used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a
>> 4.xx
>> with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::
>>
>> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
>> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft
>> also has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I
>> think its linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only
>> 64bit Professional Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio
>> version) and mid-level to million dollar major label rented or owned
>> studios with PCs instead of crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment,
>> hence why protools is migrating more to windows than it has since the 90s
>> and its fairly recent first windows versions period.
>>
>> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz
>> ... in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth
>> (64bit offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on
>> yet, large manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring (
>> ; ), 24bit 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of
>> the virtual instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is
>> dithered down with top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of
>> that quality (as you hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the
>> extreme digital coldness of the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or
>> broadcast .wav format as standard for CD Audio.
>>
>> The Main things Sonar relies on:
>>
>> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program for
>> Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
>> Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ... or
>> SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this. However
>> Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the ones
>> that combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar
>> because many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends it
>> be installed on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So
>> backups via mass quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer
>> seriously or Bluray needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk
>> drive exclusive for backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough
>> space to hold a daily incremental or other style of backup of only your
>> audio projects, they are not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas
>> will stick in memory if they arent frequently heard and the perfect take
>> may never happen again) ... its expensive for datarecovery from a bad
>> disk .. and prevention is the best investment.
>>
>> - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
>> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware
>> and my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card)
>> has 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for
>> windows recording hardware hands down.
>>
>> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for
>> the
>> style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that there are
>> rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled plugins), sampling
>> (a lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this
>> greatly... they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More
>> Ram the Less CPU stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU +
>> 25% of the second to 100% of both when doing something such as Time
>> Stretching or when several tracks are involved... the problem also stems
>> from resource hogs like anti-virus, services for programs I installed
>> that cant be killed, and selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when
>> I'm idle 84% is what I get with only the necessary processes before Sonar
>> is run ... Right now even with WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster
>> and the Delta's contyrol panels in the system tray, diskeepers service,
>> AOL's stupid unkillable processes like hostmanager, port magic, my
>> lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a fax and answering machine
>> program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro says I have 83% RAM
>> Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs almost never use the
>> Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority ... nothing
>> changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM usage
>> spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on when
>> ram drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing
>> them because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be
>> stopped because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless
>> I luck out and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure
>> the process ended after explorer crashed as it often does).
>>
>> - CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
>> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated
>> to
>> memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good for
>> lots of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks
>> with lots of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and
>> simeltaneous audio playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So
>> in short the more CPU the better.
>>
>> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their personal
>> benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds with
>> each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz 2mb
>> L2 Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
>> Processors.
>>
>> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more out
>> of them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual
>> 3.80ghz or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if
>> AMD becomes signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be
>> very biased with either brand from what ive read despite AMDs
>> endorsements from never heard of b level signed
>> artists/engineers/producers)
>> __________________________________________________ ________________
>>
>>
>> Question #1
>>
>> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
>> buying
>> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if
>> it's OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
>>
>> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am
>> in the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to
>> 8 - 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
>> Producer Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and
>> only 64bit Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda
>> need to know the price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't
>> seem to find it anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> 2nd Question.
>>
>> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped
>> shipping
>> them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with lights and
>> such.
>> Alienware's support team tried talking me into upgrading my motherboard,
>> processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron System but it would cost more
>> than selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it
>> + maybe a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont
>> allow me to upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system
>> simply because of the different case they are promoting even though the
>> chasis is identical and the cooling system fits my system's case (there
>> isnt really much of a difference at all). They've given me so much grief
>> over not allowing me to upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support
>> tickets to get my warranty voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and
>> though the system runs great aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot
>> stand Alienware anymore.
>>
>> The Current System I have has
>> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
>> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
>> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively
>> for 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense
>> they are on resources.
>> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
>> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
>> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
>> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
>> Channels, SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com
>> or under info in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed
>> specs..
>> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
>> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
>> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
>>
>> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to
>> the
>> question.
>>
>> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
>> Dell Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
>> motherboard and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there
>> btw because of the cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):
>> - 1 2.80ghz 2mb L2 800 FSB Pentium Xeon (which I will sell and replace
>> with the 2 Xeons from the Alienware)
>> - 2GB (2 DIMMS) of DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz (which I will combine with
>> the
>> RAM from the Alienware to total 4 for the time being) .. The System can
>> Hold 16mb total RAM however at the time buying it with that much costs an
>> extra $18,000 so we're not going to go that route needless to say.
>>
>> - A Free 19 inch Ultra Sharp (i think those are the plasma flatscreens
>> for
>> dell) with the computer I plan to sell or to replace my 17inch LCD screen
>> with and sell that ... either would make me around 3 or 4 hundred bucks.
>> (which makes the system really worth it imo because that money can be put
>> into more RAM or other components)
>>
>> - 1 160GB SATA 16mb Databurst (what is databurst btw) Cache 7200rpm HD
>> - Generic CD Drive I will replace along with the empty slots with my
>> Burners from the alienware (which originally came from a Dell Dimension
>> 84000 anyway).
>>
>> - The Case is supposively quiet, but ive heard a Dimension XPS before and
>> those sound like an F'n Airplane. But I have Vantec Silent Fans I could
>> steal out the Alienware and put into the case if needed not like they are
>> expensive anyway.
>>
>> - It has PCI Express and other high end card slots, I think about the
>> same
>> amount as the alienware (several more USB and Firewire ports though).
>>
>> - a 2TB Total SATA Storage Capacity
>>
>> and plenty of other nice features... I could also go with the Dell
>> Precision 670 nicknamed with a MT64 after it, no differences other than
>> the options you can have installed with the system (such as the maximum
>> amount of RAM, different software) except for one reallyyyyy big turn off
>> and thats they dont honor the free 19inch with that one just because it's
>> in the catagory for large buisnesses instead of Small to Medium
>> Buisnesses. So Instead I'm going with the Windows XP Professional Service
>> Pack 2 O/S option instead, of course I'm going to Dual Boot, and also add
>> another 400GB or maybe a 500GB SATA drive or so to my system as well.
>>
>> Do you think that buying the dell is worth it or is there a motherboard
>> out there that would fit inside the alienware (i beleive the size of the
>> board is ATX Extended , Some people have simply called it Full Tower ...
>> Alienware refuses to provide me with the dimensions b/c they dont want to
>> assist me in voiding my warranty that ends in april ::rolls eyes:: )...
>> Or Lets just say Motherboard that will not be a downgrade from either of
>> those system's boards. The alienware may be limited to 4GB of Ram but it
>> does have 6 SATA ch. , 2 IDE ch., and SLI support ... The Dell has 4
>> SATA channels im unsure about the IDE .. That isnt really important to me
>> anyway, I plan on getting 2 SATA hot swap bays to make storage of
>> projects and backups easier .. and Windows 64bit stuff easier.
>>
>> I have searched and Searched for a motherboard compatible with either
>> Dual
>> 3.80ghz Xeons which run faster than 2.80ghz Dualcore Xeons according to
>> benchmarks by many companies including dell, Same for the 3.60ghz Xeons.
>> That takes the same Ram type I have and holds at least 8GB - 16GB of RAM
>> .. Has the same amount and types of Card Slots as my X2 Motherboard
>> occupied by the Delta 1010, Video Card w/ SLI or whatever connecting 2 of
>> them together is called if not that, the Soundblaster audigy zs 2, and
>> that does not have less USB & Firewire ports than the Alienware b/c I
>> already have to use a USB 2.0 Hub for certain things that are connected
>> and disconnected often and other things that shouldn't be ever
>> disconnected b/c of their consistent use.
>>
>> But my searches are either gotten confusing or returned nothing I can
>> use.
>>
>> But if I found such a board, I would have plenty of money for other
>> items,
>> such as better processors, more ram, and some other cool stuff.
>>
>> Or do you think I should simply wait on a new system holding more than
>> 4GB
>> of RAM, Keep my Current Alienware System as is, Spend the money on 2 More
>> GB of RAM, a few more fast SATA Drives and or the hotswaps, maybe a
>> lightscribe compatible burner, and a cooling system that's quieter and
>> universal ??
>>
>> I think that with whatever is left over after taking what I need from the
>> Alienware to put on the Dell's Board and in whatever case ends up being
>> used .. I would basically have another computer sans only RAM and a large
>> HD. I could probably make a profit off of buying this sell and selling
>> the left overs.
>>
>> What do you guys think ?
>>
>> I know some of you are far more superior in computer knowledge than
>> myself
>> so any help would be greatly valued and appreciated.
>>
>> Just keep in mind that Sonar 5 Producer Edition, All of My Hardware I
>> will
>> be using, and some other applications (graphic design, photography,
>> etc..)
>> would be used in 64bit too ... But I will be heavily using 32bit for
>> Gaming & Entertainment ... which is ideal ... I could have a hot Swap,
>> external, or internal Drive for Booting up either another Windows 32bit
>> deticated to creativity applications, no internet, no resource hogs ... 1
>> such drive for 64bit Windows when I need it, both of those Operating
>> systems could acsess my storage drives easily ... and Then My Main
>> System, finally my precisious Disk 0 400GB Drive would be free to be
>> exclusively for everything else without interupting my programs that rely
>> on precious CPU and RAM.
>> __________________________________________________ ________________ 3rd
>> Question - Potential Problems w/ RAM, 1MB Cache CPU Q's, and Cooling
>>
>> Will using Dual 3.20ghz Xeons with an 1mb cache instead of a 2mb cache
>> make
>> a huge difference in 64bit , at least until I can save up the $2000 or so
>> it will take to either get Dual Dual-core Xeons, or Dual 3.80ghz Xeons
>> with a 2mb l2 cache. The Dell doesn't list that it supports a 1mb Cache
>> however I have seen plenty for sale on ebay with 1mb Cache processors
>> that are 100% legit refurbished systems. And will 4GB in 64bit and the
>> 3GB 32bit uses sometimes improve 32bit windows performance noticably at
>> all ? I was also warned by Aleinware that there might be potential
>> problems when using more than 4GB in a system with 32bit Windows but I
>> think they're full of crap and trying to hassel me into the expensive AMD
>> upgrade they want me to take them up and overpay them for.
>>
>> Considering that I'm looking for more RAM and Higher Processors do you
>> know of trustworthy online stores with well priced used or brand new
>> Xeons of those types and anywhere that sells my type of ram for cheaper
>> than nearly $300 a stick of ECC registered. My Friend who works at
>> infeneon can only get me 512mb Dimms for free rarely of the right type,
>> also I have 1 DIMM 1GB sticks currently (this will later change when I
>> need 1 Dimm 2GB - 4GB sticks to get to 8, 12, or 16 GB of RAM)
>>
>> And for my current Xeons and System im considering and or the alienware.
>> What is the best cost effective way to keep the system cool and quiet.
>> The
>> systems fans and drives are already quiet and acoustic dampening makes
>> them inaudible ... But the Fans on my Xeons are so loud they can be
>> picked up in an almost soundproof Dead Room / Isolation Booth for
>> recording vocals, amps, and acoustic instruments that's about 5 feet away
>> facing the side, part of my desk, speakers, and studio monitors inbetween
>> it.... If I use speedfan for instance to lower the speed to 50% on each
>> or slightly above they are silent but I am afraid to see if the cooling
>> in the case without the 100% fan rate on the processors heatsinks will
>> keep them cool enough when using intense applications.
>>
>> If you have questions about the current cooling of either system im
>> considering you can (please do so, I dont want to make this any longer)
>> refer to the alienware MJ12 7550i specs and dell percision 670 specs for
>> fans (note i cannot upgrade to the liquid cooling system alienware offers
>> despite my system being identical, its absurd, its made for my chasis,
>> they just made a new case for the same computer and discontinued the
>> option for my case (which is bigger, a full tower case, the big alienware
>> signature ones)
>>
>> If Fans are the option please elaborate on what fans, where to get them,
>> or their name/model. If Liquid cooling is the best option please do so
>> as well if you know of any. Or any solution at all is appreciated, I need
>> it to be quiet so I dont have to use isolation headphones to listen to
>> music at a reasonable level, or have bleedthrough on my mic even in the
>> isolation booth. Aside from Quiet it has to be as cool as it can be with
>> the silence. I simply don't know where to begin with a solution for this.
>> I can't seem to find a specific silent cooling system for a xeon and
>> liquid cooling worried me slightly about the chance of a leak. The fans
>> with liquid fillaments seem more viable but i think they are AMD
>> exclusive.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ __________________
>> 4th Question
>>
>> Can you mix DDR2 RAM in mixed pairs i.e. 2 1GB DIMMS , 4 512mb DIMMS, 1
>> 4GB DIMM ... And is all DDR2 ram Dual Channel, Dell's tech layout for the
>> percision say something about Dual Ranked Ram and lists it DDR2 PC23000
>> ECC SDRAM like that without Dual Channel like other brands, but the specs
>> also say it supports Dual Channel DDR2 RAM PC3200 RAM ... One comment on
>> it confuses me however maybe you can clear it up for me along with the
>> mixed DIMMS.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> These last few Questions are rather simple ..
>>
>> 5) Is this worth buying if its cheaper than the price it takes to
>> purchase
>> it at the trial end
>> http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+X...aign=ZAT-00007
>> ... There are also OEM and not OEM 3 versions for $110 on ebay ... all of
>> them are legit, but what is the difference ? There are boxed versions at
>> more like $400 as well. (and people trying to trick people into windows
>> xp 32bit pro with a 64x on the end but the description says it supports
>> computers with 64bit technology and is really WinXP Pro SP2. Another ploy
>> is trying to pass Server 3000 off as 64x WinXP Pro... How dispicable)
>>
>> 6) I'm not sure if I asked, sorry if I did. Does anyone know if the power
>> supply and Dell Dimension 670's motherboard will fit in the alienware
>> MJ12
>> 7550i's chasis ?
>>
>> 7) If you found a motherboard for me so buying a new computer isn't
>> necessary for swapping parts then can you suggest some cases for it ?
>> Also
>> where to look ? Or know if it will fit in my alienware case ATX Extended
>> I
>> think is the size reference the chasis is a Full Tower if that helps at
>> all.
>>
>> 8) If you didnt read the upgrade question and come across this. Do you
>> think an upgrade is necessary as far as a new board or PC goes or should
>> I consider buying processors and the 2 GB left out of the Maximum 4GB my
>> current system has ... as well as drives and acessories ... And wait for
>> the 64bit systems to become more mainstream ??? Will 4GB be that big of
>> an improvement for such a RAM intensive application im using ?
>>
>> 9) Where should I look for 64bit drivers besides 64AMD (or whatever that
>> sites name is I keep forgetting) , official sites, and for updates such
>> as DX plugins being avalible in 64x, Rewire as well, and when mp3s will
>> be able to be made in 64x. I beleive only WMA and WAV are supported
>> formats for rendering audio in 64x or with Sonar 5 in 64x.
>>
>> 10) Are there any other brands of computers that are reliable and cheaper
>> that may have what im looking for thats equal or a step or so up from the
>> system im looking at from dell ?

>
>




Charlie Russel - MVP 12-10-2005 05:14 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Questi
 
Yeah, I'm sure there are hundreds. Nay, thousands. Those are all my fingers
could remember this morning. ;)



--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:
> Colin told me about this one: http://www.planetamd64.com/catalog
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message
> news:uzEUhTa$FHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> Frankly, with an attitude like that, I have no interest in helping you.
>> Try asking a simple question, one to a message, without attitude, and
>> you'll find that there are lots of helpful people here.
>>
>> There is no "trial version registration to full version". You buy x64
>> Edition and do an in place upgrade from the trial, or if the trial has
>> expired, a repair install. You get your x64 Edition from your favourite
>> system builder, or online at an outlet that also builds systems such as:
>> www.ncix.com
>> www.directron.com
>> www.newegg.com
>> www.zipzoomfly.com
>>
>> All have been reported by those here to provide good service and good
>> prices.
>>
>> --
>> Charlie.
>> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
>>
>> DavienC wrote:
>>> I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
>>> ranting before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end....
>>> (feel free as I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good
>>> laugh from my complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also
>>> for the length of these first parts of this post before the questions
>>> which are essentially useless except for the table of contents so you
>>> can use "Find" perhaps to get to a question easier and know what its
>>> about beforehand .... I also hope im forgiven for long sections with
>>> runalong scentences and other grammatical errors ....
>>>
>>> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE
>>> if the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE
>>> 48hr and 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions
>>> below to be affordable or avalible to me.
>>>
>>> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even
>>> the
>>> simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I
>>> really should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just
>>> frequent
>>> music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's
>>> Sonar forum a lot... So.. ) :
>>>
>>> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
>>> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
>>> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't
>>> taken into account my configurations and application for 64x)
>>>
>>> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
>>> into making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I
>>> will love or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your
>>> screename (which might not be long unless I stay here posting with what
>>> help I may offer to people now or in the future or one of the article
>>> writers answers me lol).
>>>
>>>
>>> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
>>>
>>> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>>> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
>>> Questions
>>> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full
>>> version ?
>>>
>>> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable.
>>> If I should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the
>>> right specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components
>>> mentioned for cheap.
>>>
>>> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
>>> 800FSB Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling
>>> Options for Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more
>>> intense)
>>>
>>> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
>>>
>>> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
>>> require a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
>>>
>>> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the
>>> progression of my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3
>>> hours to make a decision and less than 48 for the others)
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
>>> takes time to answer some or all of these questions.
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>>> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>>>
>>> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
>>> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and
>>> VST plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read
>>> cakewalk's article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed
>>> account of 64x used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors
>>> runs more like a 4.xx
>>> with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::
>>>
>>> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
>>> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft
>>> also has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I
>>> think its linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only
>>> 64bit Professional Recording Software used by homestudios (usually
>>> studio version) and mid-level to million dollar major label rented or
>>> owned studios with PCs instead of crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the
>>> moment, hence why protools is migrating more to windows than it has
>>> since the 90s and its fairly recent first windows versions period.
>>>
>>> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz
>>> ... in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth
>>> (64bit offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on
>>> yet, large manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring (
>>> ; ), 24bit 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of
>>> the virtual instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is
>>> dithered down with top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of
>>> that quality (as you hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the
>>> extreme digital coldness of the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or
>>> broadcast .wav format as standard for CD Audio.
>>>
>>> The Main things Sonar relies on:
>>>
>>> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program
>>> for Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB
>>> 2.0, Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb
>>> ... or SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for
>>> this. However Video applications benefit from different types of RAID
>>> such as the ones that combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not
>>> the case with Sonar because many plugins even suggest a deticated
>>> drive, Sonar recommends it be installed on a disk seperate from the OS,
>>> and other such factors. So backups via mass quanities of DVD-RWs (I
>>> need to get a dual layer writer seriously or Bluray needs to come out
>>> lol), external drives, or a disk drive exclusive for backups, even an
>>> PATA drive, as long as it has enough space to hold a daily incremental
>>> or other style of backup of only your audio projects, they are not
>>> re-installable or replacable (not all ideas will stick in memory if
>>> they arent frequently heard and the perfect take may never happen
>>> again) ... its expensive for datarecovery from a bad disk .. and
>>> prevention is the best investment. - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being
>>> the best. I can get 1ms latency in
>>> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware
>>> and my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card)
>>> has 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for
>>> windows recording hardware hands down.
>>>
>>> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for
>>> the
>>> style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that there
>>> are rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled plugins),
>>> sampling (a lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely
>>> on this greatly... they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ...
>>> The More Ram the Less CPU stress, trust me it can already use 100% of
>>> one CPU + 25% of the second to 100% of both when doing something such
>>> as Time Stretching or when several tracks are involved... the problem
>>> also stems from resource hogs like anti-virus, services for programs I
>>> installed that cant be killed, and selective startup only frees up 4%
>>> more RAM when I'm idle 84% is what I get with only the necessary
>>> processes before Sonar is run ... Right now even with WMP10, Norton,
>>> Avant Browser, Soundblaster and the Delta's contyrol panels in the
>>> system tray, diskeepers service, AOL's stupid unkillable processes like
>>> hostmanager, port magic, my lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a
>>> fax and answering machine program, amongst other useless things
>>> FreeRAMPro says I have 83% RAM Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and
>>> several programs almost never use the Pagingfile, which I have on a
>>> seperate disk in majority ... nothing changes when it is disabled
>>> either except for a crash when RAM usage spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's
>>> setting for auto-matic freeing is on when ram drops below 128
>>> incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing them because of the
>>> infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be stopped because of
>>> the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless I luck out and
>>> only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure the process
>>> ended after explorer crashed as it often does). - CPU Cakewalk would
>>> say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
>>> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated
>>> to
>>> memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good for
>>> lots of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks
>>> with lots of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and
>>> simeltaneous audio playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So
>>> in short the more CPU the better.
>>>
>>> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their
>>> personal benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their
>>> minds with each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON
>>> 3.60Ghz 2mb L2 Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current
>>> highest Dualcore Processors.
>>>
>>> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more
>>> out of them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with
>>> dual 3.80ghz or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD
>>> if
>>> AMD becomes signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be
>>> very biased with either brand from what ive read despite AMDs
>>> endorsements from never heard of b level signed
>>> artists/engineers/producers)
>>> __________________________________________________ ________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Question #1
>>>
>>> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
>>> buying
>>> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if
>>> it's OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
>>>
>>> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am
>>> in the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to
>>> 8 - 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
>>> Producer Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and
>>> only 64bit Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda
>>> need to know the price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't
>>> seem to find it anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>>> 2nd Question.
>>>
>>> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped
>>> shipping
>>> them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with lights and
>>> such.
>>> Alienware's support team tried talking me into upgrading my motherboard,
>>> processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron System but it would cost more
>>> than selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to
>>> it + maybe a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they
>>> wont allow me to upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my
>>> system simply because of the different case they are promoting even
>>> though the chasis is identical and the cooling system fits my system's
>>> case (there isnt really much of a difference at all). They've given me
>>> so much grief over not allowing me to upgrade things, tried to misquote
>>> me in support tickets to get my warranty voided so I couldn't get my
>>> RAM replaced, and though the system runs great aside from the noisy
>>> xeon fans I cannot stand Alienware anymore.
>>>
>>> The Current System I have has
>>> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
>>> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
>>> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively
>>> for 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how
>>> intense they are on resources.
>>> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
>>> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
>>> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
>>> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
>>> Channels, SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com
>>> or under info in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed
>>> specs..
>>> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
>>> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
>>> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
>>>
>>> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to
>>> the
>>> question.
>>>
>>> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
>>> Dell Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
>>> motherboard and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there
>>> btw because of the cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):
>>> - 1 2.80ghz 2mb L2 800 FSB Pentium Xeon (which I will sell and replace
>>> with the 2 Xeons from the Alienware)
>>> - 2GB (2 DIMMS) of DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz (which I will combine with
>>> the
>>> RAM from the Alienware to total 4 for the time being) .. The System can
>>> Hold 16mb total RAM however at the time buying it with that much costs
>>> an extra $18,000 so we're not going to go that route needless to say.
>>>
>>> - A Free 19 inch Ultra Sharp (i think those are the plasma flatscreens
>>> for
>>> dell) with the computer I plan to sell or to replace my 17inch LCD
>>> screen with and sell that ... either would make me around 3 or 4
>>> hundred bucks. (which makes the system really worth it imo because that
>>> money can be put into more RAM or other components)
>>>
>>> - 1 160GB SATA 16mb Databurst (what is databurst btw) Cache 7200rpm HD
>>> - Generic CD Drive I will replace along with the empty slots with my
>>> Burners from the alienware (which originally came from a Dell Dimension
>>> 84000 anyway).
>>>
>>> - The Case is supposively quiet, but ive heard a Dimension XPS before
>>> and those sound like an F'n Airplane. But I have Vantec Silent Fans I
>>> could steal out the Alienware and put into the case if needed not like
>>> they are expensive anyway.
>>>
>>> - It has PCI Express and other high end card slots, I think about the
>>> same
>>> amount as the alienware (several more USB and Firewire ports though).
>>>
>>> - a 2TB Total SATA Storage Capacity
>>>
>>> and plenty of other nice features... I could also go with the Dell
>>> Precision 670 nicknamed with a MT64 after it, no differences other than
>>> the options you can have installed with the system (such as the maximum
>>> amount of RAM, different software) except for one reallyyyyy big turn
>>> off and thats they dont honor the free 19inch with that one just
>>> because it's in the catagory for large buisnesses instead of Small to
>>> Medium Buisnesses. So Instead I'm going with the Windows XP
>>> Professional Service Pack 2 O/S option instead, of course I'm going to
>>> Dual Boot, and also add another 400GB or maybe a 500GB SATA drive or so
>>> to my system as well. Do you think that buying the dell is worth it or
>>> is there a motherboard
>>> out there that would fit inside the alienware (i beleive the size of the
>>> board is ATX Extended , Some people have simply called it Full Tower ...
>>> Alienware refuses to provide me with the dimensions b/c they dont want
>>> to assist me in voiding my warranty that ends in april ::rolls eyes::
>>> )... Or Lets just say Motherboard that will not be a downgrade from
>>> either of those system's boards. The alienware may be limited to 4GB of
>>> Ram but it does have 6 SATA ch. , 2 IDE ch., and SLI support ... The
>>> Dell has 4 SATA channels im unsure about the IDE .. That isnt really
>>> important to me anyway, I plan on getting 2 SATA hot swap bays to make
>>> storage of projects and backups easier .. and Windows 64bit stuff
>>> easier. I have searched and Searched for a motherboard compatible with
>>> either
>>> Dual
>>> 3.80ghz Xeons which run faster than 2.80ghz Dualcore Xeons according to
>>> benchmarks by many companies including dell, Same for the 3.60ghz Xeons.
>>> That takes the same Ram type I have and holds at least 8GB - 16GB of RAM
>>> .. Has the same amount and types of Card Slots as my X2 Motherboard
>>> occupied by the Delta 1010, Video Card w/ SLI or whatever connecting 2
>>> of them together is called if not that, the Soundblaster audigy zs 2,
>>> and that does not have less USB & Firewire ports than the Alienware b/c
>>> I already have to use a USB 2.0 Hub for certain things that are
>>> connected and disconnected often and other things that shouldn't be ever
>>> disconnected b/c of their consistent use.
>>>
>>> But my searches are either gotten confusing or returned nothing I can
>>> use.
>>>
>>> But if I found such a board, I would have plenty of money for other
>>> items,
>>> such as better processors, more ram, and some other cool stuff.
>>>
>>> Or do you think I should simply wait on a new system holding more than
>>> 4GB
>>> of RAM, Keep my Current Alienware System as is, Spend the money on 2
>>> More GB of RAM, a few more fast SATA Drives and or the hotswaps, maybe a
>>> lightscribe compatible burner, and a cooling system that's quieter and
>>> universal ??
>>>
>>> I think that with whatever is left over after taking what I need from
>>> the Alienware to put on the Dell's Board and in whatever case ends up
>>> being used .. I would basically have another computer sans only RAM and
>>> a large HD. I could probably make a profit off of buying this sell and
>>> selling the left overs.
>>>
>>> What do you guys think ?
>>>
>>> I know some of you are far more superior in computer knowledge than
>>> myself
>>> so any help would be greatly valued and appreciated.
>>>
>>> Just keep in mind that Sonar 5 Producer Edition, All of My Hardware I
>>> will
>>> be using, and some other applications (graphic design, photography,
>>> etc..)
>>> would be used in 64bit too ... But I will be heavily using 32bit for
>>> Gaming & Entertainment ... which is ideal ... I could have a hot Swap,
>>> external, or internal Drive for Booting up either another Windows 32bit
>>> deticated to creativity applications, no internet, no resource hogs ...
>>> 1 such drive for 64bit Windows when I need it, both of those Operating
>>> systems could acsess my storage drives easily ... and Then My Main
>>> System, finally my precisious Disk 0 400GB Drive would be free to be
>>> exclusively for everything else without interupting my programs that
>>> rely on precious CPU and RAM.
>>> __________________________________________________ ________________ 3rd
>>> Question - Potential Problems w/ RAM, 1MB Cache CPU Q's, and Cooling
>>>
>>> Will using Dual 3.20ghz Xeons with an 1mb cache instead of a 2mb cache
>>> make
>>> a huge difference in 64bit , at least until I can save up the $2000 or
>>> so it will take to either get Dual Dual-core Xeons, or Dual 3.80ghz
>>> Xeons with a 2mb l2 cache. The Dell doesn't list that it supports a 1mb
>>> Cache however I have seen plenty for sale on ebay with 1mb Cache
>>> processors that are 100% legit refurbished systems. And will 4GB in
>>> 64bit and the 3GB 32bit uses sometimes improve 32bit windows
>>> performance noticably at all ? I was also warned by Aleinware that
>>> there might be potential problems when using more than 4GB in a system
>>> with 32bit Windows but I think they're full of crap and trying to
>>> hassel me into the expensive AMD upgrade they want me to take them up
>>> and overpay them for. Considering that I'm looking for more RAM and
>>> Higher Processors do you
>>> know of trustworthy online stores with well priced used or brand new
>>> Xeons of those types and anywhere that sells my type of ram for cheaper
>>> than nearly $300 a stick of ECC registered. My Friend who works at
>>> infeneon can only get me 512mb Dimms for free rarely of the right type,
>>> also I have 1 DIMM 1GB sticks currently (this will later change when I
>>> need 1 Dimm 2GB - 4GB sticks to get to 8, 12, or 16 GB of RAM)
>>>
>>> And for my current Xeons and System im considering and or the alienware.
>>> What is the best cost effective way to keep the system cool and quiet.
>>> The
>>> systems fans and drives are already quiet and acoustic dampening makes
>>> them inaudible ... But the Fans on my Xeons are so loud they can be
>>> picked up in an almost soundproof Dead Room / Isolation Booth for
>>> recording vocals, amps, and acoustic instruments that's about 5 feet
>>> away facing the side, part of my desk, speakers, and studio monitors
>>> inbetween it.... If I use speedfan for instance to lower the speed to
>>> 50% on each or slightly above they are silent but I am afraid to see if
>>> the cooling in the case without the 100% fan rate on the processors
>>> heatsinks will keep them cool enough when using intense applications.
>>>
>>> If you have questions about the current cooling of either system im
>>> considering you can (please do so, I dont want to make this any longer)
>>> refer to the alienware MJ12 7550i specs and dell percision 670 specs for
>>> fans (note i cannot upgrade to the liquid cooling system alienware
>>> offers despite my system being identical, its absurd, its made for my
>>> chasis, they just made a new case for the same computer and
>>> discontinued the option for my case (which is bigger, a full tower
>>> case, the big alienware signature ones)
>>>
>>> If Fans are the option please elaborate on what fans, where to get them,
>>> or their name/model. If Liquid cooling is the best option please do so
>>> as well if you know of any. Or any solution at all is appreciated, I
>>> need it to be quiet so I dont have to use isolation headphones to
>>> listen to music at a reasonable level, or have bleedthrough on my mic
>>> even in the isolation booth. Aside from Quiet it has to be as cool as
>>> it can be with the silence. I simply don't know where to begin with a
>>> solution for this. I can't seem to find a specific silent cooling
>>> system for a xeon and liquid cooling worried me slightly about the
>>> chance of a leak. The fans with liquid fillaments seem more viable but
>>> i think they are AMD exclusive.
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________ __________________
>>> 4th Question
>>>
>>> Can you mix DDR2 RAM in mixed pairs i.e. 2 1GB DIMMS , 4 512mb DIMMS, 1
>>> 4GB DIMM ... And is all DDR2 ram Dual Channel, Dell's tech layout for
>>> the percision say something about Dual Ranked Ram and lists it DDR2
>>> PC23000 ECC SDRAM like that without Dual Channel like other brands, but
>>> the specs also say it supports Dual Channel DDR2 RAM PC3200 RAM ... One
>>> comment on it confuses me however maybe you can clear it up for me
>>> along with the mixed DIMMS.
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>>> These last few Questions are rather simple ..
>>>
>>> 5) Is this worth buying if its cheaper than the price it takes to
>>> purchase
>>> it at the trial end
>>> http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+X...aign=ZAT-00007
>>> ... There are also OEM and not OEM 3 versions for $110 on ebay ... all
>>> of them are legit, but what is the difference ? There are boxed
>>> versions at more like $400 as well. (and people trying to trick people
>>> into windows xp 32bit pro with a 64x on the end but the description
>>> says it supports computers with 64bit technology and is really WinXP
>>> Pro SP2. Another ploy is trying to pass Server 3000 off as 64x WinXP
>>> Pro... How dispicable) 6) I'm not sure if I asked, sorry if I did. Does
>>> anyone know if the
>>> power supply and Dell Dimension 670's motherboard will fit in the
>>> alienware MJ12
>>> 7550i's chasis ?
>>>
>>> 7) If you found a motherboard for me so buying a new computer isn't
>>> necessary for swapping parts then can you suggest some cases for it ?
>>> Also
>>> where to look ? Or know if it will fit in my alienware case ATX Extended
>>> I
>>> think is the size reference the chasis is a Full Tower if that helps at
>>> all.
>>>
>>> 8) If you didnt read the upgrade question and come across this. Do you
>>> think an upgrade is necessary as far as a new board or PC goes or should
>>> I consider buying processors and the 2 GB left out of the Maximum 4GB my
>>> current system has ... as well as drives and acessories ... And wait for
>>> the 64bit systems to become more mainstream ??? Will 4GB be that big of
>>> an improvement for such a RAM intensive application im using ?
>>>
>>> 9) Where should I look for 64bit drivers besides 64AMD (or whatever that
>>> sites name is I keep forgetting) , official sites, and for updates such
>>> as DX plugins being avalible in 64x, Rewire as well, and when mp3s will
>>> be able to be made in 64x. I beleive only WMA and WAV are supported
>>> formats for rendering audio in 64x or with Sonar 5 in 64x.
>>>
>>> 10) Are there any other brands of computers that are reliable and
>>> cheaper that may have what im looking for thats equal or a step or so
>>> up from the system im looking at from dell ?




Charlie Russel - MVP 12-10-2005 05:26 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Questi
 
that would require that he actually come in with a positive attitude and use
his head for something other than a hat rack. He's got all he'll get from me
without a change, that's for sure.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64

Colin Barnhorst wrote:
> No way are volunteers in the newsgroup going to read this waste of
> bandwidth. What is your question in a single sentence?
>
>> I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
>> ranting
>> before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end.... (feel
>> free as
>> I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good laugh from my
>> complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also for the length
>> of
>> these first parts of this post before the questions which are essentially
>> useless except for the table of contents so you can use "Find" perhaps to
>> get
>> to a question easier and know what its about beforehand .... I also hope
>> im
>> forgiven for long sections with runalong scentences and other grammatical
>> errors ....
>>
>> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE if
>> the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE 48hr
>> and
>> 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below to be
>> affordable or avalible to me.
>>
>> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even
>> the simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I
>> really should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just
>> frequent music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and
>> Cakewalk.com's Sonar
>> forum a lot... So.. ) :
>>
>> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
>> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
>> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
>> into account my configurations and application for 64x)
>>
>> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
>> into
>> making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I will
>> love
>> or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your screename (which
>> might
>> not be long unless I stay here posting with what help I may offer to
>> people
>> now or in the future or one of the article writers answers me lol).
>>
>>
>> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
>>
>> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
>> Questions
>> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full
>> version ?
>>
>> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable.
>> If I
>> should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the right
>> specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components mentioned
>> for
>> cheap.
>>
>> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
>> 800FSB
>> Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling Options for
>> Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more intense)
>>
>> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
>>
>> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
>> require
>> a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
>>
>> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the progression
>> of
>> my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
>> decision and less than 48 for the others)
>>
>>
>> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
>> takes
>> time to answer some or all of these questions.
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>>
>> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
>> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and VST
>> plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read cakewalk's
>> article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of 64x
>> used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a
>> 4.xx with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::
>>
>> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
>> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft
>> also
>> has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I think
>> its linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only 64bit
>> Professional
>> Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio version) and
>> mid-level
>> to million dollar major label rented or owned studios with PCs instead of
>> crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment, hence why protools is
>> migrating
>> more to windows than it has since the 90s and its fairly recent first
>> windows
>> versions period.
>>
>> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz
>> ...
>> in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth (64bit
>> offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on yet, large
>> manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring ( ; ), 24bit
>> 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of the virtual
>> instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is dithered down
>> with
>> top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of that quality (as
>> you hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the extreme digital
>> coldness of
>> the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or broadcast .wav format as
>> standard for CD Audio.
>>
>> The Main things Sonar relies on:
>>
>> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program for
>> Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
>> Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ... or
>> SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this. However
>> Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the ones
>> that
>> combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar
>> because many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends it
>> be installed
>> on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So backups via
>> mass
>> quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer seriously or
>> Bluray
>> needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk drive exclusive for
>> backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough space to hold a
>> daily
>> incremental or other style of backup of only your audio projects, they
>> are not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas will stick in memory
>> if they
>> arent frequently heard and the perfect take may never happen again) ...
>> its
>> expensive for datarecovery from a bad disk .. and prevention is the best
>> investment.
>>
>> - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
>> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware
>> and
>> my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card) has
>> 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for
>> windows recording hardware hands down.
>>
>> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for
>> the style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that
>> there are rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled
>> plugins), sampling (a
>> lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this
>> greatly...
>> they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More Ram the Less
>> CPU
>> stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU + 25% of the second
>> to 100% of both when doing something such as Time Stretching or when
>> several tracks are involved... the problem also stems from resource hogs
>> like anti-virus, services for programs I installed that cant be killed,
>> and selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when I'm idle 84% is
>> what I get
>> with only the necessary processes before Sonar is run ... Right now even
>> with
>> WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster and the Delta's contyrol
>> panels in
>> the system tray, diskeepers service, AOL's stupid unkillable processes
>> like
>> hostmanager, port magic, my lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a fax
>> and
>> answering machine program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro says I
>> have 83% RAM Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs almost
>> never use the Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority ...
>> nothing changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM
>> usage
>> spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on when
>> ram
>> drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing them
>> because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be stopped
>> because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless I luck
>> out
>> and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure the
>> process ended after explorer crashed as it often does).
>>
>> - CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
>> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated
>> to memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good
>> for lots
>> of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks with
>> lots
>> of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and simeltaneous
>> audio playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So in short the
>> more CPU
>> the better.
>>
>> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their personal
>> benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds with
>> each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz 2mb
>> L2
>> Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
>> Processors.
>>
>> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more out
>> of
>> them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual
>> 3.80ghz
>> or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if AMD
>> becomes signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be
>> very biased with
>> either brand from what ive read despite AMDs endorsements from never
>> heard of
>> b level signed artists/engineers/producers)
>> __________________________________________________ ________________
>>
>>
>> Question #1
>>
>> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
>> buying
>> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if
>> it's
>> OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
>>
>> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am
>> in
>> the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to 8 -
>> 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
>> Producer
>> Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and only 64bit
>> Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda need to know
>> the
>> price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't seem to find it
>> anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> 2nd Question.
>>
>> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped
>> shipping them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with
>> lights and such. Alienware's support team tried talking me into
>> upgrading my motherboard, processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron
>> System but it would cost more than
>> selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it +
>> maybe
>> a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont allow me
>> to
>> upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system simply because
>> of the different case they are promoting even though the chasis is
>> identical and
>> the cooling system fits my system's case (there isnt really much of a
>> difference at all). They've given me so much grief over not allowing me
>> to upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support tickets to get my
>> warranty voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and though the system
>> runs great aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot stand Alienware
>> anymore. The Current System I have has
>> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
>> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
>> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively
>> for
>> 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense
>> they are on resources.
>> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
>> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
>> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
>> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
>> Channels,
>> SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com or under
>> info
>> in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed specs..
>> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
>> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
>> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
>>
>> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to
>> the question.
>>
>> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
>> Dell
>> Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
>> motherboard
>> and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there btw because of
>> the
>> cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):
>> - 1 2.80ghz 2mb L2 800 FSB Pentium Xeon (which I will sell and replace
>> with
>> the 2 Xeons from the Alienware)
>> - 2GB (2 DIMMS) of DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz (which I will combine with
>> the RAM from the Alienware to total 4 for the time being) .. The System
>> can Hold
>> 16mb total RAM however at the time buying it with that much costs an
>> extra $18,000 so we're not going to go that route needless to say.
>>
>> - A Free 19 inch Ultra Sharp (i think those are the plasma flatscreens
>> for dell) with the computer I plan to sell or to replace my 17inch LCD
>> screen with and sell that ... either would make me around 3 or 4 hundred
>> bucks. (which makes the system really worth it imo because that money
>> can be put into more RAM or other components)
>>
>> - 1 160GB SATA 16mb Databurst (what is databurst btw) Cache 7200rpm HD
>> - Generic CD Drive I will replace along with the empty slots with my
>> Burners
>> from the alienware (which originally came from a Dell Dimension 84000
>> anyway).
>>
>> - The Case is supposively quiet, but ive heard a Dimension XPS before and
>> those sound like an F'n Airplane. But I have Vantec Silent Fans I could
>> steal
>> out the Alienware and put into the case if needed not like they are
>> expensive
>> anyway.
>>
>> - It has PCI Express and other high end card slots, I think about the
>> same amount as the alienware (several more USB and Firewire ports
>> though). - a 2TB Total SATA Storage Capacity
>>
>> and plenty of other nice features... I could also go with the Dell
>> Precision
>> 670 nicknamed with a MT64 after it, no differences other than the options
>> you
>> can have installed with the system (such as the maximum amount of RAM,
>> different software) except for one reallyyyyy big turn off and thats they
>> dont honor the free 19inch with that one just because it's in the
>> catagory for large buisnesses instead of Small to Medium Buisnesses. So
>> Instead I'm going with the Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 O/S
>> option instead, of
>> course I'm going to Dual Boot, and also add another 400GB or maybe a
>> 500GB SATA drive or so to my system as well.
>>
>> Do you think that buying the dell is worth it or is there a motherboard
>> out
>> there that would fit inside the alienware (i beleive the size of the
>> board is
>> ATX Extended , Some people have simply called it Full Tower ... Alienware
>> refuses to provide me with the dimensions b/c they dont want
>> to assist me in
>> voiding my warranty that ends in april ::rolls eyes:: )... Or Lets just
>> say
>> Motherboard that will not be a downgrade from either of those system's
>> boards. The alienware may be limited to 4GB of Ram but it does have 6
>> SATA ch. , 2 IDE ch., and SLI support ... The Dell has 4 SATA channels
>> im unsure
>> about the IDE .. That isnt really important to me anyway, I plan on
>> getting 2
>> SATA hot swap bays to make storage of projects and backups easier .. and
>> Windows 64bit stuff easier.
>>
>> I have searched and Searched for a motherboard compatible with either
>> Dual 3.80ghz Xeons which run faster than 2.80ghz Dualcore Xeons according
>> to
>> benchmarks by many companies including dell, Same for the 3.60ghz Xeons.
>> That
>> takes the same Ram type I have and holds at least 8GB - 16GB of RAM ..
>> Has the same amount and types of Card Slots as my X2 Motherboard
>> occupied by the
>> Delta 1010, Video Card w/ SLI or whatever connecting 2 of them together
>> is called if not that, the Soundblaster audigy zs 2, and that does not
>> have less
>> USB & Firewire ports than the Alienware b/c I already have to use a USB
>> 2.0
>> Hub for certain things that are connected and disconnected often and
>> other things that shouldn't be ever disconnected b/c of their consistent
>> use. But my searches are either gotten confusing or returned nothing I
>> can
>> use. But if I found such a board, I would have plenty of money for other
>> items, such as better processors, more ram, and some other cool stuff.
>>
>> Or do you think I should simply wait on a new system holding more than
>> 4GB of RAM, Keep my Current Alienware System as is, Spend the money on 2
>> More GB
>> of RAM, a few more fast SATA Drives and or the hotswaps, maybe a
>> lightscribe
>> compatible burner, and a cooling system that's quieter and universal ??
>>
>> I think that with whatever is left over after taking what I need from the
>> Alienware to put on the Dell's Board and in whatever case ends up being
>> used
>> .. I would basically have another computer sans only RAM and a large HD.
>> I could probably make a profit off of buying this sell and selling the
>> left overs.
>>
>> What do you guys think ?
>>
>> I know some of you are far more superior in computer knowledge than
>> myself so any help would be greatly valued and appreciated.
>>
>> Just keep in mind that Sonar 5 Producer Edition, All of My Hardware I
>> will be using, and some other applications (graphic design, photography,
>> etc..) would be used in 64bit too ... But I will be heavily using 32bit
>> for Gaming &
>> Entertainment ... which is ideal ... I could have a hot Swap, external,
>> or internal Drive for Booting up either another Windows 32bit deticated
>> to creativity applications, no internet, no resource hogs ... 1 such
>> drive for
>> 64bit Windows when I need it, both of those Operating systems could
>> acsess my
>> storage drives easily ... and Then My Main System, finally my precisious
>> Disk
>> 0 400GB Drive would be free to be exclusively for everything else without
>> interupting my programs that rely on precious CPU and RAM.
>> __________________________________________________ ________________
>> 3rd Question - Potential Problems w/ RAM, 1MB Cache CPU Q's, and Cooling
>>
>> Will using Dual 3.20ghz Xeons with an 1mb cache instead of a 2mb cache
>> make
>> a huge difference in 64bit , at least until I can save up the $2000 or so
>> it
>> will take to either get Dual Dual-core Xeons, or Dual 3.80ghz Xeons with
>> a 2mb l2 cache. The Dell doesn't list that it supports a 1mb Cache
>> however I have seen plenty for sale on ebay with 1mb Cache processors
>> that are 100% legit refurbished systems. And will 4GB in 64bit and the
>> 3GB 32bit uses sometimes improve 32bit windows performance noticably at
>> all ? I was also warned by Aleinware that there might be potential
>> problems when using more than 4GB in a system with 32bit Windows but I
>> think they're full of crap and
>> trying to hassel me into the expensive AMD upgrade they want me to take
>> them
>> up and overpay them for.
>>
>> Considering that I'm looking for more RAM and Higher Processors do you
>> know
>> of trustworthy online stores with well priced used or brand new Xeons of
>> those types and anywhere that sells my type of ram for cheaper than
>> nearly $300 a stick of ECC registered. My Friend who works at infeneon
>> can only get
>> me 512mb Dimms for free rarely of the right type, also I have 1 DIMM 1GB
>> sticks currently (this will later change when I need 1 Dimm 2GB - 4GB
>> sticks
>> to get to 8, 12, or 16 GB of RAM)
>>
>> And for my current Xeons and System im considering and or the alienware.
>> What is the best cost effective way to keep the system cool and quiet.
>> The systems fans and drives are already quiet and acoustic dampening
>> makes them
>> inaudible ... But the Fans on my Xeons are so loud they can be picked up
>> in
>> an almost soundproof Dead Room / Isolation Booth for recording vocals,
>> amps,
>> and acoustic instruments that's about 5 feet away facing the side, part
>> of my
>> desk, speakers, and studio monitors inbetween it.... If I use speedfan
>> for instance to lower the speed to 50% on each or slightly above they are
>> silent
>> but I am afraid to see if the cooling in the case without the 100% fan
>> rate
>> on the processors heatsinks will keep them cool enough when using intense
>> applications.
>>
>> If you have questions about the current cooling of either system im
>> considering you can (please do so, I dont want to make this any longer)
>> refer
>> to the alienware MJ12 7550i specs and dell percision 670 specs for fans
>> (note
>> i cannot upgrade to the liquid cooling system alienware offers despite my
>> system being identical, its absurd, its made for my chasis, they just
>> made a
>> new case for the same computer and discontinued the option for my case
>> (which
>> is bigger, a full tower case, the big alienware signature ones)
>>
>> If Fans are the option please elaborate on what fans, where to get them,
>> or
>> their name/model. If Liquid cooling is the best option please do so as
>> well
>> if you know of any. Or any solution at all is appreciated, I need it to
>> be quiet so I dont have to use isolation headphones to listen to music
>> at a reasonable level, or have bleedthrough on my mic even in the
>> isolation booth.
>> Aside from Quiet it has to be as cool as it can be with the silence. I
>> simply
>> don't know where to begin with a solution for this. I can't seem to find
>> a specific silent cooling system for a xeon and liquid cooling worried me
>> slightly about the chance of a leak. The fans with liquid fillaments seem
>> more viable but i think they are AMD exclusive.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ __________________
>> 4th Question
>>
>> Can you mix DDR2 RAM in mixed pairs i.e. 2 1GB DIMMS , 4 512mb DIMMS, 1
>> 4GB
>> DIMM ... And is all DDR2 ram Dual Channel, Dell's tech layout for the
>> percision say something about Dual Ranked Ram and lists it DDR2 PC23000
>> ECC
>> SDRAM like that without Dual Channel like other brands, but the specs
>> also say it supports Dual Channel DDR2 RAM PC3200 RAM ... One comment on
>> it confuses me however maybe you can clear it up for me along with the
>> mixed DIMMS.
>>
>> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> These last few Questions are rather simple ..
>>
>> 5) Is this worth buying if its cheaper than the price it takes to
>> purchase it at the trial end
>> http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+X...aign=ZAT-00007
>> ... There are also OEM and not OEM 3 versions for $110 on ebay ... all of
>> them are legit, but what is the difference ? There are boxed versions at
>> more
>> like $400 as well. (and people trying to trick people into windows xp
>> 32bit
>> pro with a 64x on the end but the description says it supports computers
>> with
>> 64bit technology and is really WinXP Pro SP2. Another ploy is trying to
>> pass
>> Server 3000 off as 64x WinXP Pro... How dispicable)
>>
>> 6) I'm not sure if I asked, sorry if I did. Does anyone know if the power
>> supply and Dell Dimension 670's motherboard will fit in the alienware
>> MJ12 7550i's chasis ?
>>
>> 7) If you found a motherboard for me so buying a new computer isn't
>> necessary for swapping parts then can you suggest some cases for it ?
>> Also where to look ? Or know if it will fit in my alienware case ATX
>> Extended I think is the size reference the chasis is a Full Tower if
>> that helps at all.
>>
>> 8) If you didnt read the upgrade question and come across this. Do you
>> think
>> an upgrade is necessary as far as a new board or PC goes or should I
>> consider
>> buying processors and the 2 GB left out of the Maximum 4GB my current
>> system
>> has ... as well as drives and acessories ... And wait for the 64bit
>> systems
>> to become more mainstream ??? Will 4GB be that big of an improvement for
>> such
>> a RAM intensive application im using ?
>>
>> 9) Where should I look for 64bit drivers besides 64AMD (or whatever that
>> sites name is I keep forgetting) , official sites, and for updates such
>> as DX
>> plugins being avalible in 64x, Rewire as well, and when mp3s will be able
>> to
>> be made in 64x. I beleive only WMA and WAV are supported formats for
>> rendering audio in 64x or with Sonar 5 in 64x.
>>
>> 10) Are there any other brands of computers that are reliable and cheaper
>> that may have what im looking for thats equal or a step or so up from the
>> system im looking at from dell ?




=?Utf-8?B?RGF2aWVuQw==?= 12-10-2005 07:58 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Qu
 
I'm very confused as to how any of you mistook any of that as being rude. The
closest thing to being rude would be making light of my dilema with pure
cynical humor aimed at myself and some of the true morons at Alienware ive
delt with.

I was being very positive towards all of you and I quote myself

"I really
should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just frequent
music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's Sonar
forum a lot... So.. ) :"

And my thanks in advance to anyone willing to help.

"Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
into account my configurations and application for 64x) "

I only added the end part because I often get a reply that can be somewhat
cryptic to somone who doesn't know the brand of or where to look for
something. Let alone somone who is told to perform <insert the nickname of a
series of tasks here> to somone unfamilliar with the terminology or the
forums own evolved lingo and e-shorthand.


As far as asking your any help from people here at this forum, My posts were
all mildly toned desperation for help because despite even asking just 1 of
these questions on other forums noone seemed to know the answers or wished to
take the time to help me, despite how much I had helped them in the past with
my knowledge of various other technologies. Mainly Networking (I'm an MCP but
I don't want to bother spending money on the 2 or 3 exams I have left to be
an MCSE. There are absolutely no job openings other than 2 hours from here in
Washington D.C. or northern, VA. Richmond,VA is a technology industry
challenged area other than infeneon being in the outlying county. I 've given
my advice with Older PCs, Macs, Ethical Hacking & Security, and Hardware I am
familliar with. On top of that I have written tutorials for people such as
the Cakewalk.com forums on how to stabilize the 5.0.0 version of Sonar 5
before 5.0.1 came out which had around 280 serious bug fixes ... and I am
more than willing to offer to help with Web Design (HTML, Flash, Graphics,
etc.) as wel as my rusting near obsolete knowledge of Visual C++ and Visual
Basic 6.

Despite that the very same people reliant on some of my help, often going
out of my way as far as having configured a D.A.W. for them based on their
needs and Budget. Noone was willing to help me in return for the past 2
weeks, usually just stating they were too lazy to help search if they replied
at all.

Then I remembered this place, Where I once asked about Dual Booting back
when the promotional offer to trade in 32bit for 64x was around .. This time
I had several questions, I apologized for the length of the questions, Put
the trivial meant to be humorus story of my dilema at the end instead of the
begining as it was originally typed ... I even commented I should of came
here first because you guys know your stuff.

This Post:
"hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced into
making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ..."

hopefully was not taken as some sort of threat or blame on anyone, it was
fear I would not be able to find my answers or have somone answer them for me
before the end of a deal or auction that currently will allow me to afford
and profit off of buying certain systems such as the Dell Precision 670
Workstation because of swaping components. The Profit would go into the final
money needed to pay for more RAM, a Larger Drive(s) than the one coming with
the system, to add to my current. And well I think that explains my demeanor
there better than it may had looked/read.

The Bold text wasn't E-Shouting it was to draw your attention to the
important stuff as opposed to my Medication induced Rambling (a common side
effect of Adderall and Hypomania induced by Anti-Depressants before a
moodstabilizer and in my case an anti-anxiety medication kick in) I was very
serious about being very appreciative of any help you guys could offer me,
The whole thing about loving you forever or if you wanted me too (" or if you
wish") hate you in return for your help was an attempt at humor perhaps part
of what was mistaken.

I admit Question 2 was a bit sketchy, but im sure you guys can get the jist
of it. But Almost every other question was very simple and straight forward,
relating to the same things.

I tried to provide you with enough information about what I intend to use
64x for reference incase you were unfamilliar with Cakewalk Sonar 5 PE ,
Digital Audio Workstations (D.A.W.), and the demands of such
applications/systems.

If the Dealine thing was mistaken as rudeness, I'm the one with the
deadlines, I simply wanted to make it clear that because of not being able to
find out a lot of this information myself and the expiration of certain
offers and systems that I needed help weighing the options for. I have looked
at several websites (tigerdirect, Intel's, ebay, carious pc customization
resource sites etc.) and have been unable to find a motherboard and I was
hoping one of the experts or people who are more familliar with 64x would
know of some motherboards that might work for me.

As far as asking the price after the Trial , I intend to buy it directly
from microsoft but I have to plan ahead money wise and I cannot find a site
anywhere or a page here that lists that price. I have been seeing various
prices for 64x. Official legit copies from various places differing between
100s of dollars in price and with different names like OEM, OEM3, as well as
packaging .. I got a bit confused. Even places licsensed by microsoft to sell
it had prices differing from $110 to $400.


And it is not as if I have not been looking for answers to some of these
questions or finding some of these items myself, I have not slept for 24
hours doing so, and some of the things I asked were merely for your opinions
or for valuable advice on any such mentioned items or info I am seeking. It
is also untrue to assume I have found nothing, The problem is I have found
too many variable and conflicting answers to many of the questions, and a lot
of which that do not apply to 64x. I get pages predicting what DDR2 will be
like when it comes out before anything about the actual RAM when searching
for things, Wikipedia doesn't have any of the information I need just
detailed history (rather interesting in some cases) about a lot of this stuff.

But My overall goal was to help myself think by talking it out with people
who know more about 64bit systems and processors than I do, to learn from
you, and to obtain or verify information in order to make a sound and solid
decision I won't regret because of being under time contraints.


The closing of my introduction to my problem and my perhaps mistaken as
rudeness, show of thanks, laced with self degratory humor, and slight
desperation/anxiousness for reasons i've made quite clear by now as not to
repeat myself again (as I have with some other statements, I know that can be
a little annoying to read).

"I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom takes
time to answer some or all of these questions. "

I hope nobody took that as rude, I'd be very unsure as to if the integrity
of You for instance Charlie, the man writing some reviews for this site, whom
also happens to be the person who insulted me and the rudest of the repliers
yet was at all somone with integrity. However hopefully this cleared any
misunderstandings up and you will be willing to represent yourself in a more
professional way instead of overreacting to as of then non-existent attitude
and I myself will leave out my tasteless humor, attempts at turning
fustration into something to laugh at on my behalf, and make myself more
clear as to my "tone of text".

I reluctently apologize to anyone who misunderstood that as an attitude,
simply because of some of your un-called for blatantly rude replies or
mocking.

Hopefully we all see eye to eye now at a certain level. I would still like
to know where and what indicated to any of you I was being rude. Unless I was
wrong about it being in particular section but such a large order of requests
for help that was rude. I would think that all but 2 of those questions would
be rather quick to answer or opinionate, but then again I did apologize for
the length already. Perhaps that apology wasn't accepted ?

Either way you guys really are quick to flame somone for being regulars.
I'll be polite as long as you guys are, it's only rational to not overreact
to your previous posts and hopefully see that any after this are replies with
a clear understanding or at least more than just a mere churlish insult, if
your going to do so, please elaborate on what you probably misunderstood or
took offensively.

Thanks,
D.C.

"Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

> that would require that he actually come in with a positive attitude and use
> his head for something other than a hat rack. He's got all he'll get from me
> without a change, that's for sure.
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
>
> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
> > No way are volunteers in the newsgroup going to read this waste of
> > bandwidth. What is your question in a single sentence?
> >
> >> I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
> >> ranting
> >> before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end.... (feel
> >> free as
> >> I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good laugh from my
> >> complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also for the length
> >> of
> >> these first parts of this post before the questions which are essentially
> >> useless except for the table of contents so you can use "Find" perhaps to
> >> get
> >> to a question easier and know what its about beforehand .... I also hope
> >> im
> >> forgiven for long sections with runalong scentences and other grammatical
> >> errors ....
> >>
> >> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE if
> >> the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE 48hr
> >> and
> >> 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below to be
> >> affordable or avalible to me.
> >>
> >> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even
> >> the simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I
> >> really should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just
> >> frequent music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and
> >> Cakewalk.com's Sonar
> >> forum a lot... So.. ) :
> >>
> >> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
> >> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
> >> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
> >> into account my configurations and application for 64x)
> >>
> >> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
> >> into
> >> making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I will
> >> love
> >> or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your screename (which
> >> might
> >> not be long unless I stay here posting with what help I may offer to
> >> people
> >> now or in the future or one of the article writers answers me lol).
> >>
> >>
> >> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
> >>
> >> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
> >> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
> >> Questions
> >> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full
> >> version ?
> >>
> >> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is reasonable.
> >> If I
> >> should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the right
> >> specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components mentioned
> >> for
> >> cheap.
> >>
> >> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
> >> 800FSB
> >> Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling Options for
> >> Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more intense)
> >>
> >> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
> >>
> >> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
> >> require
> >> a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
> >>
> >> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the progression
> >> of
> >> my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
> >> decision and less than 48 for the others)
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
> >> takes
> >> time to answer some or all of these questions.
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________ _______________
> >> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
> >>
> >> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if you
> >> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and VST
> >> plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read cakewalk's
> >> article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of 64x
> >> used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a
> >> 4.xx with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology ::shrugs::
> >>
> >> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
> >> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ... Microsoft
> >> also
> >> has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I think
> >> its linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only 64bit
> >> Professional
> >> Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio version) and
> >> mid-level
> >> to million dollar major label rented or owned studios with PCs instead of
> >> crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment, hence why protools is
> >> migrating
> >> more to windows than it has since the 90s and its fairly recent first
> >> windows
> >> versions period.
> >>
> >> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96 Khz
> >> ...
> >> in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth (64bit
> >> offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on yet, large
> >> manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring ( ; ), 24bit
> >> 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of the virtual
> >> instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is dithered down
> >> with
> >> top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of that quality (as
> >> you hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the extreme digital
> >> coldness of
> >> the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or broadcast .wav format as
> >> standard for CD Audio.
> >>
> >> The Main things Sonar relies on:
> >>
> >> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program for
> >> Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
> >> Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ... or
> >> SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this. However
> >> Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the ones
> >> that
> >> combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar
> >> because many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends it
> >> be installed
> >> on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So backups via
> >> mass
> >> quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer seriously or
> >> Bluray
> >> needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk drive exclusive for
> >> backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough space to hold a
> >> daily
> >> incremental or other style of backup of only your audio projects, they
> >> are not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas will stick in memory
> >> if they
> >> arent frequently heard and the perfect take may never happen again) ...
> >> its
> >> expensive for datarecovery from a bad disk .. and prevention is the best
> >> investment.
> >>
> >> - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
> >> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the hardware
> >> and
> >> my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card) has
> >> 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for
> >> windows recording hardware hands down.
> >>
> >> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for
> >> the style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that
> >> there are rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled
> >> plugins), sampling (a
> >> lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this
> >> greatly...
> >> they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More Ram the Less
> >> CPU
> >> stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU + 25% of the second
> >> to 100% of both when doing something such as Time Stretching or when
> >> several tracks are involved... the problem also stems from resource hogs
> >> like anti-virus, services for programs I installed that cant be killed,
> >> and selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when I'm idle 84% is
> >> what I get
> >> with only the necessary processes before Sonar is run ... Right now even
> >> with
> >> WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster and the Delta's contyrol
> >> panels in
> >> the system tray, diskeepers service, AOL's stupid unkillable processes
> >> like
> >> hostmanager, port magic, my lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a fax
> >> and
> >> answering machine program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro says I
> >> have 83% RAM Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs almost
> >> never use the Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority ...
> >> nothing changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM
> >> usage
> >> spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on when
> >> ram
> >> drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing them
> >> because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be stopped
> >> because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless I luck
> >> out
> >> and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure the
> >> process ended after explorer crashed as it often does).
> >>
> >> - CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
> >> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions unrelated
> >> to memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is good
> >> for lots
> >> of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks with
> >> lots
> >> of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and simeltaneous
> >> audio playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So in short the
> >> more CPU
> >> the better.
> >>
> >> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their personal
> >> benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds with
> >> each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz 2mb
> >> L2
> >> Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
> >> Processors.
> >>
> >> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more out
> >> of
> >> them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual
> >> 3.80ghz
> >> or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if AMD
> >> becomes signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be
> >> very biased with
> >> either brand from what ive read despite AMDs endorsements from never
> >> heard of
> >> b level signed artists/engineers/producers)
> >> __________________________________________________ ________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Question #1
> >>
> >> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
> >> buying
> >> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site, if
> >> it's
> >> OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
> >>
> >> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I am
> >> in
> >> the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to 8 -
> >> 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
> >> Producer
> >> Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and only 64bit
> >> Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda need to know
> >> the
> >> price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't seem to find it
> >> anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________ _______________
> >> 2nd Question.
> >>
> >> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped
> >> shipping them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with
> >> lights and such. Alienware's support team tried talking me into
> >> upgrading my motherboard, processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron
> >> System but it would cost more than
> >> selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it +
> >> maybe
> >> a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont allow me
> >> to
> >> upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system simply because
> >> of the different case they are promoting even though the chasis is
> >> identical and
> >> the cooling system fits my system's case (there isnt really much of a
> >> difference at all). They've given me so much grief over not allowing me
> >> to upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support tickets to get my
> >> warranty voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and though the system
> >> runs great aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot stand Alienware
> >> anymore. The Current System I have has
> >> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
> >> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
> >> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is exclusively
> >> for
> >> 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense
> >> they are on resources.
> >> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
> >> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
> >> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
> >> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
> >> Channels,
> >> SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com or under
> >> info
> >> in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed specs..
> >> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
> >> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
> >> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
> >>
> >> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to
> >> the question.
> >>
> >> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
> >> Dell
> >> Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
> >> motherboard
> >> and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there btw because of
> >> the
> >> cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):


Andre Da Costa [Extended64] 12-10-2005 08:02 PM

Re: Please Help! 12pm & 48 Deadline Price for Trial and Several Qu
 
In the words of Colin Barnhorst:
What is your question in a single sentence?
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

"DavienC" <DavienC@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3303D7EE-F3DC-41E4-9AD9-9D52DF8481B0@microsoft.com...
> I'm very confused as to how any of you mistook any of that as being rude.
> The
> closest thing to being rude would be making light of my dilema with pure
> cynical humor aimed at myself and some of the true morons at Alienware ive
> delt with.
>
> I was being very positive towards all of you and I quote myself
>
> "I really
> should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I just frequent
> music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and Cakewalk.com's
> Sonar
> forum a lot... So.. ) :"
>
> And my thanks in advance to anyone willing to help.
>
> "Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can help
> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long and
> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't taken
> into account my configurations and application for 64x) "
>
> I only added the end part because I often get a reply that can be somewhat
> cryptic to somone who doesn't know the brand of or where to look for
> something. Let alone somone who is told to perform <insert the nickname of
> a
> series of tasks here> to somone unfamilliar with the terminology or the
> forums own evolved lingo and e-shorthand.
>
>
> As far as asking your any help from people here at this forum, My posts
> were
> all mildly toned desperation for help because despite even asking just 1
> of
> these questions on other forums noone seemed to know the answers or wished
> to
> take the time to help me, despite how much I had helped them in the past
> with
> my knowledge of various other technologies. Mainly Networking (I'm an MCP
> but
> I don't want to bother spending money on the 2 or 3 exams I have left to
> be
> an MCSE. There are absolutely no job openings other than 2 hours from here
> in
> Washington D.C. or northern, VA. Richmond,VA is a technology industry
> challenged area other than infeneon being in the outlying county. I 've
> given
> my advice with Older PCs, Macs, Ethical Hacking & Security, and Hardware I
> am
> familliar with. On top of that I have written tutorials for people such as
> the Cakewalk.com forums on how to stabilize the 5.0.0 version of Sonar 5
> before 5.0.1 came out which had around 280 serious bug fixes ... and I am
> more than willing to offer to help with Web Design (HTML, Flash, Graphics,
> etc.) as wel as my rusting near obsolete knowledge of Visual C++ and
> Visual
> Basic 6.
>
> Despite that the very same people reliant on some of my help, often going
> out of my way as far as having configured a D.A.W. for them based on their
> needs and Budget. Noone was willing to help me in return for the past 2
> weeks, usually just stating they were too lazy to help search if they
> replied
> at all.
>
> Then I remembered this place, Where I once asked about Dual Booting back
> when the promotional offer to trade in 32bit for 64x was around .. This
> time
> I had several questions, I apologized for the length of the questions, Put
> the trivial meant to be humorus story of my dilema at the end instead of
> the
> begining as it was originally typed ... I even commented I should of came
> here first because you guys know your stuff.
>
> This Post:
> "hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
> into
> making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ..."
>
> hopefully was not taken as some sort of threat or blame on anyone, it was
> fear I would not be able to find my answers or have somone answer them for
> me
> before the end of a deal or auction that currently will allow me to afford
> and profit off of buying certain systems such as the Dell Precision 670
> Workstation because of swaping components. The Profit would go into the
> final
> money needed to pay for more RAM, a Larger Drive(s) than the one coming
> with
> the system, to add to my current. And well I think that explains my
> demeanor
> there better than it may had looked/read.
>
> The Bold text wasn't E-Shouting it was to draw your attention to the
> important stuff as opposed to my Medication induced Rambling (a common
> side
> effect of Adderall and Hypomania induced by Anti-Depressants before a
> moodstabilizer and in my case an anti-anxiety medication kick in) I was
> very
> serious about being very appreciative of any help you guys could offer me,
> The whole thing about loving you forever or if you wanted me too (" or if
> you
> wish") hate you in return for your help was an attempt at humor perhaps
> part
> of what was mistaken.
>
> I admit Question 2 was a bit sketchy, but im sure you guys can get the
> jist
> of it. But Almost every other question was very simple and straight
> forward,
> relating to the same things.
>
> I tried to provide you with enough information about what I intend to use
> 64x for reference incase you were unfamilliar with Cakewalk Sonar 5 PE ,
> Digital Audio Workstations (D.A.W.), and the demands of such
> applications/systems.
>
> If the Dealine thing was mistaken as rudeness, I'm the one with the
> deadlines, I simply wanted to make it clear that because of not being able
> to
> find out a lot of this information myself and the expiration of certain
> offers and systems that I needed help weighing the options for. I have
> looked
> at several websites (tigerdirect, Intel's, ebay, carious pc customization
> resource sites etc.) and have been unable to find a motherboard and I was
> hoping one of the experts or people who are more familliar with 64x would
> know of some motherboards that might work for me.
>
> As far as asking the price after the Trial , I intend to buy it directly
> from microsoft but I have to plan ahead money wise and I cannot find a
> site
> anywhere or a page here that lists that price. I have been seeing various
> prices for 64x. Official legit copies from various places differing
> between
> 100s of dollars in price and with different names like OEM, OEM3, as well
> as
> packaging .. I got a bit confused. Even places licsensed by microsoft to
> sell
> it had prices differing from $110 to $400.
>
>
> And it is not as if I have not been looking for answers to some of these
> questions or finding some of these items myself, I have not slept for 24
> hours doing so, and some of the things I asked were merely for your
> opinions
> or for valuable advice on any such mentioned items or info I am seeking.
> It
> is also untrue to assume I have found nothing, The problem is I have found
> too many variable and conflicting answers to many of the questions, and a
> lot
> of which that do not apply to 64x. I get pages predicting what DDR2 will
> be
> like when it comes out before anything about the actual RAM when searching
> for things, Wikipedia doesn't have any of the information I need just
> detailed history (rather interesting in some cases) about a lot of this
> stuff.
>
> But My overall goal was to help myself think by talking it out with people
> who know more about 64bit systems and processors than I do, to learn from
> you, and to obtain or verify information in order to make a sound and
> solid
> decision I won't regret because of being under time contraints.
>
>
> The closing of my introduction to my problem and my perhaps mistaken as
> rudeness, show of thanks, laced with self degratory humor, and slight
> desperation/anxiousness for reasons i've made quite clear by now as not to
> repeat myself again (as I have with some other statements, I know that can
> be
> a little annoying to read).
>
> "I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
> takes
> time to answer some or all of these questions. "
>
> I hope nobody took that as rude, I'd be very unsure as to if the integrity
> of You for instance Charlie, the man writing some reviews for this site,
> whom
> also happens to be the person who insulted me and the rudest of the
> repliers
> yet was at all somone with integrity. However hopefully this cleared any
> misunderstandings up and you will be willing to represent yourself in a
> more
> professional way instead of overreacting to as of then non-existent
> attitude
> and I myself will leave out my tasteless humor, attempts at turning
> fustration into something to laugh at on my behalf, and make myself more
> clear as to my "tone of text".
>
> I reluctently apologize to anyone who misunderstood that as an attitude,
> simply because of some of your un-called for blatantly rude replies or
> mocking.
>
> Hopefully we all see eye to eye now at a certain level. I would still like
> to know where and what indicated to any of you I was being rude. Unless I
> was
> wrong about it being in particular section but such a large order of
> requests
> for help that was rude. I would think that all but 2 of those questions
> would
> be rather quick to answer or opinionate, but then again I did apologize
> for
> the length already. Perhaps that apology wasn't accepted ?
>
> Either way you guys really are quick to flame somone for being regulars.
> I'll be polite as long as you guys are, it's only rational to not
> overreact
> to your previous posts and hopefully see that any after this are replies
> with
> a clear understanding or at least more than just a mere churlish insult,
> if
> your going to do so, please elaborate on what you probably misunderstood
> or
> took offensively.
>
> Thanks,
> D.C.
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
>
>> that would require that he actually come in with a positive attitude and
>> use
>> his head for something other than a hat rack. He's got all he'll get from
>> me
>> without a change, that's for sure.
>>
>> --
>> Charlie.
>> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
>>
>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>> > No way are volunteers in the newsgroup going to read this waste of
>> > bandwidth. What is your question in a single sentence?
>> >
>> >> I apologize in advance for the length of the 2nd question and for my
>> >> ranting
>> >> before any the first one... actually ill move it to the end.... (feel
>> >> free as
>> >> I point out below to skip it, unless you just want a good laugh from
>> >> my
>> >> complaining/humor about my problems progression), and also for the
>> >> length
>> >> of
>> >> these first parts of this post before the questions which are
>> >> essentially
>> >> useless except for the table of contents so you can use "Find" perhaps
>> >> to
>> >> get
>> >> to a question easier and know what its about beforehand .... I also
>> >> hope
>> >> im
>> >> forgiven for long sections with runalong scentences and other
>> >> grammatical
>> >> errors ....
>> >>
>> >> BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP GREATLY AND WITH UNMEASURED GRATTITUDE
>> >> if
>> >> the questions are answered by the time I need them or eliminate THE
>> >> 48hr
>> >> and
>> >> 12pm deadline for some of my options related to the questions below to
>> >> be
>> >> affordable or avalible to me.
>> >>
>> >> Noone at any other forum has taken time to answer not 1 question, even
>> >> the simplest ones for somone who knows computers better than me, and I
>> >> really should of just come here first. You guys know your stuff , I
>> >> just
>> >> frequent music composition related forums like KVRaudio.com and
>> >> Cakewalk.com's Sonar
>> >> forum a lot... So.. ) :
>> >>
>> >> Once again I can't express my sincere grattitude to anyone whom can
>> >> help
>> >> answer these questions in reasonable detail (doesn't have to be long
>> >> and
>> >> elaborative just make sure it's not vauge or something that doesn't
>> >> taken
>> >> into account my configurations and application for 64x)
>> >>
>> >> hopefuilly within the next 48 hours somone will help so I'm not forced
>> >> into
>> >> making a decision because of a deal or auction expiring etc. ... I
>> >> will
>> >> love
>> >> or if you wish hate you for as long as I remember your screename
>> >> (which
>> >> might
>> >> not be long unless I stay here posting with what help I may offer to
>> >> people
>> >> now or in the future or one of the article writers answers me lol).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> * = 12PM & 48 HOUR DEADLINE APPLIES
>> >>
>> >> ---I. Basic Information to consider about what I intend to use with
>> >> 64x
>> >> ---II. Main Things Sonar Relies On.
>> >> Questions
>> >> --1. What is the Price of the Trial Version's registration to full
>> >> version ?
>> >>
>> >> *--2. I need opinions on if one of these upgrade options is
>> >> reasonable.
>> >> If I
>> >> should at all. If one route is taken Finding a Motherboard with the
>> >> right
>> >> specs. Trustworthy non-ebay Places to find various components
>> >> mentioned
>> >> for
>> >> cheap.
>> >>
>> >> --3. Potential Problems w/ 4Gigs+ RAM on 32bit ? , Xeons with 1MB L2
>> >> 800FSB
>> >> Cache CPU performance questions, and Silent and other Cooling Options
>> >> for
>> >> Xeons running on 32bit and 64bit O/S (since 64x will be more intense)
>> >>
>> >> --4. Mixing DDR2 DIMM Pairs ?
>> >>
>> >> --5. Questions 5 - are reatively simply put and short. That do not
>> >> require
>> >> a lot of elaboration on anyones part I would assume.
>> >>
>> >> -III. The Pointless Soapbox Ranting and complaining about the
>> >> progression
>> >> of
>> >> my problem (and how things came to be this way i.e. 3 hours to make a
>> >> decision and less than 48 for the others)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I hope somone can work their magic .. Thanks in advance to anyone whom
>> >> takes
>> >> time to answer some or all of these questions.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> >> Some basic info to consider about what I intend to use with 64x
>> >>
>> >> its more or less mentioned in the questions but less detailed and if
>> >> you
>> >> arent familliar with what recording applications and their DX, MX and
>> >> VST
>> >> plugins rely on then you might wanna skim through it or read
>> >> cakewalk's
>> >> article. It is rather interesting and a very good detailed account of
>> >> 64x
>> >> used on a system .. they claim a 3.xx ghz processors runs more like a
>> >> 4.xx with such a clean exclusive system and 64bit technology
>> >> ::shrugs::
>> >>
>> >> Just so you know my main intention is to use Cakewalk Sonar 5:
>> >> http://cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/x64.asp for infomation ...
>> >> Microsoft
>> >> also
>> >> has benchmarks and such for Sonar 5 on the 64x site i beleive, I think
>> >> its linked somewhere on Cakewalk.com. It is the first and only 64bit
>> >> Professional
>> >> Recording Software used by homestudios (usually studio version) and
>> >> mid-level
>> >> to million dollar major label rented or owned studios with PCs instead
>> >> of
>> >> crapintosh G5s.As is the trend at the moment, hence why protools is
>> >> migrating
>> >> more to windows than it has since the 90s and its fairly recent first
>> >> windows
>> >> versions period.
>> >>
>> >> Audio Composition, Sampling, Playback, 16bit - 64bit audio up to 96
>> >> Khz
>> >> ...
>> >> in my case since I'm authoring for CD I use 32bit recording depth
>> >> (64bit
>> >> offers different options I havent gained a lot of knowledge on yet,
>> >> large
>> >> manual, bigger than a harry potter book and just as boring ( ; ),
>> >> 24bit
>> >> 48000 (DVD Audio or Movie Quality) for recording because of the
>> >> virtual
>> >> instruments, SPDIF interfaces, and such ... Then that is dithered down
>> >> with
>> >> top of the line technology to preserve almost 100% of that quality (as
>> >> you hear blatantly on any new CD especially from the extreme digital
>> >> coldness of
>> >> the mixes) to 16bit 44100 khz in .wav or broadcast .wav format as
>> >> standard for CD Audio.
>> >>
>> >> The Main things Sonar relies on:
>> >>
>> >> - Hard Drives ability for Fast Data Transfer from Disk to the program
>> >> for
>> >> Audio Playback. Defragmentation is also very important. SATA, USB 2.0,
>> >> Firewire, 16mb Cache at 7200rpm, & 10,000rpm drives at 8mb or 16mb ...
>> >> or
>> >> SCSI at 15,000rpm despite the small sizes are all Ideal for this.
>> >> However
>> >> Video applications benefit from different types of RAID such as the
>> >> ones
>> >> that
>> >> combine drives or failsafe set ups this is not the case with Sonar
>> >> because many plugins even suggest a deticated drive, Sonar recommends
>> >> it
>> >> be installed
>> >> on a disk seperate from the OS, and other such factors. So backups via
>> >> mass
>> >> quanities of DVD-RWs (I need to get a dual layer writer seriously or
>> >> Bluray
>> >> needs to come out lol), external drives, or a disk drive exclusive for
>> >> backups, even an PATA drive, as long as it has enough space to hold a
>> >> daily
>> >> incremental or other style of backup of only your audio projects, they
>> >> are not re-installable or replacable (not all ideas will stick in
>> >> memory
>> >> if they
>> >> arent frequently heard and the perfect take may never happen again)
>> >> ...
>> >> its
>> >> expensive for datarecovery from a bad disk .. and prevention is the
>> >> best
>> >> investment.
>> >>
>> >> - Latency of the Drivers ASIO being the best. I can get 1ms latency in
>> >> certain lighter load situations. This is also dependant on the
>> >> hardware
>> >> and
>> >> my interface, the M-Audio Delta 1010 (Rack Mount & Card not LT Card)
>> >> has
>> >> 64bit drivers already and is considered the flagship interface for
>> >> windows recording hardware hands down.
>> >>
>> >> - RAM is the most important thing for Sonar for somone who uses it for
>> >> the style of music I create. Its essential for plugins (enough that
>> >> there are rack mounted DSP Modules, tailored RAM for DSP enabled
>> >> plugins), sampling (a
>> >> lot of virtual instruments and surround sound plugins rely on this
>> >> greatly...
>> >> they are also disk trashing and CPU intensive) ... The More Ram the
>> >> Less
>> >> CPU
>> >> stress, trust me it can already use 100% of one CPU + 25% of the
>> >> second
>> >> to 100% of both when doing something such as Time Stretching or when
>> >> several tracks are involved... the problem also stems from resource
>> >> hogs
>> >> like anti-virus, services for programs I installed that cant be
>> >> killed,
>> >> and selective startup only frees up 4% more RAM when I'm idle 84% is
>> >> what I get
>> >> with only the necessary processes before Sonar is run ... Right now
>> >> even
>> >> with
>> >> WMP10, Norton, Avant Browser, Soundblaster and the Delta's contyrol
>> >> panels in
>> >> the system tray, diskeepers service, AOL's stupid unkillable processes
>> >> like
>> >> hostmanager, port magic, my lan/cable connection, my 56k modem for a
>> >> fax
>> >> and
>> >> answering machine program, amongst other useless things FreeRAMPro
>> >> says I
>> >> have 83% RAM Free, and oddly enough Cakewalk and several programs
>> >> almost
>> >> never use the Pagingfile, which I have on a seperate disk in majority
>> >> ...
>> >> nothing changes when it is disabled either except for a crash when RAM
>> >> usage
>> >> spikes to 100% or FreeRAMPro's setting for auto-matic freeing is on
>> >> when
>> >> ram
>> >> drops below 128 incessantly starts to run which uses CPU stressing
>> >> them
>> >> because of the infinite cycle of trying to free ram that cant be
>> >> stopped
>> >> because of the lock up or lag the computer crashes period unless I
>> >> luck
>> >> out
>> >> and only sonar does or I remember to turn it off (or make sure the
>> >> process ended after explorer crashed as it often does).
>> >>
>> >> - CPU Cakewalk would say, CPU is important for playback, the programs
>> >> stability and speed itself, and the load of various functions
>> >> unrelated
>> >> to memory storage and recall like ram or paging files. More RAM is
>> >> good
>> >> for lots
>> >> of plugins and Samples .. and CPU is good for handling those tracks
>> >> with
>> >> lots
>> >> of plugins or raw audio in general, Rewiew devices, and simeltaneous
>> >> audio playback on projects with large numbers of tracks. So in short
>> >> the
>> >> more CPU
>> >> the better.
>> >>
>> >> NOTEL:Benchmarks (such as the one on Dell.com for example, their
>> >> personal
>> >> benchmark, and on several sites that consistently change their minds
>> >> with
>> >> each advancement) have shown on several sites that Dual XEON 3.60Ghz
>> >> 2mb
>> >> L2
>> >> Cache 800FSB+ processors are faster than the current highest Dualcore
>> >> Processors.
>> >>
>> >> I only have Dual 3.20ghz Xeon with 1mb L2 Caches and hope to get more
>> >> out
>> >> of
>> >> them until I can get the $2000 or so needed to replace them with dual
>> >> 3.80ghz
>> >> or a better dualcore that may come along (or upgrade to AMD if AMD
>> >> becomes signficantly better for Audio Apps. Which doesn't seem to be
>> >> very biased with
>> >> either brand from what ive read despite AMDs endorsements from never
>> >> heard of
>> >> b level signed artists/engineers/producers)
>> >> __________________________________________________ ________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Question #1
>> >>
>> >> I have seen 64x avalible for practicaly nothing more than 32bit when
>> >> buying
>> >> a computer with it pre-installed, $110 - $400 depending on the site,
>> >> if
>> >> it's
>> >> OEM, OEM3, or a Boxed Version or whatever.
>> >>
>> >> I have my trial version, I have not had a chance to install it yet. I
>> >> am
>> >> in
>> >> the process of deciding if buying a new PC in order work my way up to
>> >> 8 -
>> >> 16GB of DDR2 RAM is worth it to get the most our of Cakewalk Sonar 5
>> >> Producer
>> >> Edition (which runs extraordinarily well and is the first and only
>> >> 64bit
>> >> Professional Recording Application/Sequencer).. So I kinda need to
>> >> know
>> >> the
>> >> price so I don't screw myself over somehow, and I can't seem to find
>> >> it
>> >> anywhere on the site about buying a key after the trial.
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________ _______________
>> >> 2nd Question.
>> >>
>> >> I currently have an Alienware m12-7550i , one before they stopped
>> >> shipping them with the Cool Looking (so some) big alien cases with
>> >> lights and such. Alienware's support team tried talking me into
>> >> upgrading my motherboard, processors, and Ram for their Dual Opteron
>> >> System but it would cost more than
>> >> selling my system for what I bought it for + what I have added to it +
>> >> maybe
>> >> a few $100 more in order to upgrade it. Not to mention they wont allow
>> >> me
>> >> to
>> >> upgrade to the liquid cooling system built for my system simply
>> >> because
>> >> of the different case they are promoting even though the chasis is
>> >> identical and
>> >> the cooling system fits my system's case (there isnt really much of a
>> >> difference at all). They've given me so much grief over not allowing
>> >> me
>> >> to upgrade things, tried to misquote me in support tickets to get my
>> >> warranty voided so I couldn't get my RAM replaced, and though the
>> >> system
>> >> runs great aside from the noisy xeon fans I cannot stand Alienware
>> >> anymore. The Current System I have has
>> >> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 8mb Cache
>> >> - 1 internal 400GB SATA 16mb Cache (for the audio applications)
>> >> - 2 X 80 GB USB Drives for backing up project files and 1 is
>> >> exclusively
>> >> for
>> >> 2 pluginsthat suggest having a deticated drive because of how intense
>> >> they are on resources.
>> >> -Dual 3.20ghz Processors with a 1mb L2 Cache 800FSB , its the EM64t
>> >> (spelling?) compatible ones... or whatever for use with 64x Windows.
>> >> - 2GB (2 Dimms) of Dual Channel DDR2 PC3200 SDRAM 400mhz
>> >> - Alienware's (Custom iWill) X2 Motherboard 6 SATA Channels, 2 IDE
>> >> Channels,
>> >> SLI compatibility .. etc.. You can look it up at Alienware.com or
>> >> under
>> >> info
>> >> in the configuration for an M12 there for more detailed specs..
>> >> - 256mb Nvidia Geforce 6800
>> >> - Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2
>> >> - M-Audio Delta 1010 Rack Mounted Recording Interface & PCI/PCI-X Card
>> >>
>> >> and well the rest of the information is not really rellevant really to
>> >> the question.
>> >>
>> >> Do you guys think it would be worth it to spend almost $2000 even on a
>> >> Dell
>> >> Percision 670 as a replacment and to swap parts with (if the dell
>> >> motherboard
>> >> and power supply fit the alienware case its going in there btw because
>> >> of
>> >> the
>> >> cooling system and acoustic dampening/foam):





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