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01-19-2007 04:52 PM

Partition, Backup, etc...
 
I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer user (about
the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a number of
articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your drive".

I am not sure what all of this means, but from the looks of it, it must be
pretty important. Is there a basic, beginner's guide to doing this? I have
tried searching, but most of the articles I have found are more advanced
than I can understand.

I would appreciate any links or help this group can provide.

Thanks,
Robin



why? 01-19-2007 06:35 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:52:13 -0500, <me5@> wrote:

>I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer user (about
>the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a number of
>articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your drive".


These seem simple enough

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup
In the field of information technology, backup refers to the copying of
data so that these additional copies may be restored after a data loss
event. Backups are useful primarily for two purposes: to restore a
computer to an operational state following a disaster (called disaster
recovery) and to restore small numbers of files after they have been
accidentally deleted or corrupted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning
In computer engineering, hard disk drive partitioning is the creation of
logical divisions upon a hard disk that allows one to apply operating
system-specific logical formatting. In layman's terms, partitioning a
hard drive makes it appear to be more than one hard drive, especially in
how each partition is formatted for different operating systems, and in
how files are copied from one partition to another.

>I am not sure what all of this means, but from the looks of it, it must be
>pretty important. Is there a basic, beginner's guide to doing this? I have
>tried searching, but most of the articles I have found are more advanced
>than I can understand.


Well this is the hard part, as you don't provide any examples, of what
level is too advanced supplying a list of links for articles you may
not follow isn't easy.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1124
Beginners Guides: Back up and Restore Data in WinXP

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1778
Beginners Guides: Formatting and Partitioning a Hard Drive

Try www.google.com and learn how to search, there are 1000's of
beginners guides you just have to look more.

>I would appreciate any links or help this group can provide.
>
>Thanks,
>Robin
>


Me

01-19-2007 06:42 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 
Thank you very much for the great links! I really appreciate your help.
I'm off to study :)

"why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
news:j632r2hrej0mfql8marc3eus077s4cbgri@4ax.com...
>
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:52:13 -0500, <me5@> wrote:
>
>>I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer user
>>(about
>>the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a number of
>>articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your drive".

>
> These seem simple enough
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup
> In the field of information technology, backup refers to the copying of
> data so that these additional copies may be restored after a data loss
> event. Backups are useful primarily for two purposes: to restore a
> computer to an operational state following a disaster (called disaster
> recovery) and to restore small numbers of files after they have been
> accidentally deleted or corrupted.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning
> In computer engineering, hard disk drive partitioning is the creation of
> logical divisions upon a hard disk that allows one to apply operating
> system-specific logical formatting. In layman's terms, partitioning a
> hard drive makes it appear to be more than one hard drive, especially in
> how each partition is formatted for different operating systems, and in
> how files are copied from one partition to another.
>
>>I am not sure what all of this means, but from the looks of it, it must be
>>pretty important. Is there a basic, beginner's guide to doing this? I
>>have
>>tried searching, but most of the articles I have found are more advanced
>>than I can understand.

>
> Well this is the hard part, as you don't provide any examples, of what
> level is too advanced supplying a list of links for articles you may
> not follow isn't easy.
>
> http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1124
> Beginners Guides: Back up and Restore Data in WinXP
>
> http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1778
> Beginners Guides: Formatting and Partitioning a Hard Drive
>
> Try www.google.com and learn how to search, there are 1000's of
> beginners guides you just have to look more.
>
>>I would appreciate any links or help this group can provide.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Robin
>>

>
> Me




WhzzKdd 01-19-2007 07:44 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 
me5@privacy.net wrote:
> Thank you very much for the great links! I really appreciate your
> help. I'm off to study :)
>
> "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
> news:j632r2hrej0mfql8marc3eus077s4cbgri@4ax.com...
>>
>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:52:13 -0500, <me5@> wrote:
>>
>>> I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer
>>> user (about
>>> the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a number of
>>> articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your drive".

>>
>> These seem simple enough
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup
>> In the field of information technology, backup refers to the copying
>> of data so that these additional copies may be restored after a data
>> loss event. Backups are useful primarily for two purposes: to
>> restore a computer to an operational state following a disaster
>> (called disaster recovery) and to restore small numbers of files
>> after they have been accidentally deleted or corrupted.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning
>> In computer engineering, hard disk drive partitioning is the
>> creation of logical divisions upon a hard disk that allows one to
>> apply operating system-specific logical formatting. In layman's
>> terms, partitioning a hard drive makes it appear to be more than one
>> hard drive, especially in how each partition is formatted for
>> different operating systems, and in how files are copied from one
>> partition to another.
>>> I am not sure what all of this means, but from the looks of it, it
>>> must be pretty important. Is there a basic, beginner's guide to
>>> doing this? I have
>>> tried searching, but most of the articles I have found are more
>>> advanced than I can understand.

>>
>> Well this is the hard part, as you don't provide any examples, of
>> what level is too advanced supplying a list of links for articles
>> you may not follow isn't easy.
>>
>> http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1124
>> Beginners Guides: Back up and Restore Data in WinXP
>>
>> http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1778
>> Beginners Guides: Formatting and Partitioning a Hard Drive
>>
>> Try www.google.com and learn how to search, there are 1000's of
>> beginners guides you just have to look more.
>>
>>> I would appreciate any links or help this group can provide.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Robin
>>>

>>
>> Me


Why? Me gave good info, but just so you know, partitioning usually only
needs to be done once (at setup) and left alone. Playing around with
partitions can be risky, especially with Windows' utilities. There are
non-MS software programs that do it better.

Partitioning is good for organization of information. I think of it like a
filing cabinet: each partition is a different drawer in that cabinet (and
the drive letter assigned is the drawer's name). Some cabinets have 2, some
have 3, some have 4, etc. It depends on the user's needs. One drawer could
have music/videos, one drawer could have documents/spreadsheets/finances,
etc. So if you are looking for a specific type of file, you would know where
to start looking instead of having to search everywhere.

Partitioning a drive so a backup can be made to a second location on the
same physical drive is probably not a good option. If the drive fails,
you've lost both sets of data. Backups should not be done to the same drive,
but to an external destination, such as another hard drive (internal or
external), CD or DVD, tape, etc.

And another thought about backups would be to keep them in a different
location, depending on how important your data is. Like the backups for
Mom's computer are at my house, my backups are at the office, the office
backups are in a offsite fireproof vault, etc.




01-19-2007 08:04 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 
So, since I have had this computer for over a year, it wouldn't be a great
idea to partition it?
And, I guess the main thing I wanted to get to was a backup. Most of the
places I checked online suggested (strongly) that you should partition
before doing a backup.
This is getting more complicated than I realized. I think I may just see
about finding a program that does this automatically and leave it at that.
I usually like trying things "hands on", but I don't want to mess up
anything, either.
Thanks for the info :)
"WhzzKdd" <i.broke.it@oh-no.invalid> wrote in message
news:zc9sh.43$Ou1.20@newsfe04.lga...
> me5@privacy.net wrote:
>> Thank you very much for the great links! I really appreciate your
>> help. I'm off to study :)
>>
>> "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
>> news:j632r2hrej0mfql8marc3eus077s4cbgri@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:52:13 -0500, <me5@> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer
>>>> user (about
>>>> the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a number of
>>>> articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your drive".
>>>
>>> These seem simple enough
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup
>>> In the field of information technology, backup refers to the copying
>>> of data so that these additional copies may be restored after a data
>>> loss event. Backups are useful primarily for two purposes: to
>>> restore a computer to an operational state following a disaster
>>> (called disaster recovery) and to restore small numbers of files
>>> after they have been accidentally deleted or corrupted.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning
>>> In computer engineering, hard disk drive partitioning is the
>>> creation of logical divisions upon a hard disk that allows one to
>>> apply operating system-specific logical formatting. In layman's
>>> terms, partitioning a hard drive makes it appear to be more than one
>>> hard drive, especially in how each partition is formatted for
>>> different operating systems, and in how files are copied from one
>>> partition to another.
>>>> I am not sure what all of this means, but from the looks of it, it
>>>> must be pretty important. Is there a basic, beginner's guide to
>>>> doing this? I have
>>>> tried searching, but most of the articles I have found are more
>>>> advanced than I can understand.
>>>
>>> Well this is the hard part, as you don't provide any examples, of
>>> what level is too advanced supplying a list of links for articles
>>> you may not follow isn't easy.
>>>
>>> http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1124
>>> Beginners Guides: Back up and Restore Data in WinXP
>>>
>>> http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1778
>>> Beginners Guides: Formatting and Partitioning a Hard Drive
>>>
>>> Try www.google.com and learn how to search, there are 1000's of
>>> beginners guides you just have to look more.
>>>
>>>> I would appreciate any links or help this group can provide.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Robin
>>>>
>>>
>>> Me

>
> Why? Me gave good info, but just so you know, partitioning usually only
> needs to be done once (at setup) and left alone. Playing around with
> partitions can be risky, especially with Windows' utilities. There are
> non-MS software programs that do it better.
>
> Partitioning is good for organization of information. I think of it like a
> filing cabinet: each partition is a different drawer in that cabinet (and
> the drive letter assigned is the drawer's name). Some cabinets have 2,
> some have 3, some have 4, etc. It depends on the user's needs. One drawer
> could have music/videos, one drawer could have
> documents/spreadsheets/finances, etc. So if you are looking for a specific
> type of file, you would know where to start looking instead of having to
> search everywhere.
>
> Partitioning a drive so a backup can be made to a second location on the
> same physical drive is probably not a good option. If the drive fails,
> you've lost both sets of data. Backups should not be done to the same
> drive, but to an external destination, such as another hard drive
> (internal or external), CD or DVD, tape, etc.
>
> And another thought about backups would be to keep them in a different
> location, depending on how important your data is. Like the backups for
> Mom's computer are at my house, my backups are at the office, the office
> backups are in a offsite fireproof vault, etc.
>
>
>




why? 01-19-2007 08:49 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:44:28 -0800, WhzzKdd wrote:

>me5@privacy.net wrote:
>> Thank you very much for the great links! I really appreciate your
>> help. I'm off to study :)
>>
>> "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
>> news:j632r2hrej0mfql8marc3eus077s4cbgri@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:52:13 -0500, <me5@> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer
>>>> user (about
>>>> the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a number of
>>>> articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your drive".
>>>
>>> These seem simple enough
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup
>>> In the field of information technology, backup refers to the copying


<snip>

>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning
>>> In computer engineering, hard disk drive partitioning is the
>>> creation of logical divisions upon a hard disk that allows one to


<snip>

>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Robin
>>>>
>>>
>>> Me

>
>Why? Me gave good info, but just so you know, partitioning usually only
>needs to be done once (at setup) and left alone. Playing around with
>partitions can be risky, especially with Windows' utilities. There are
>non-MS software programs that do it better.


True.

LOL, was leaving that for more questions later :-)

<snip other good points>

Me

Senti 01-19-2007 09:13 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 
me5@privacy.net wrote:
> So, since I have had this computer for over a year, it wouldn't be a great
> idea to partition it?
> And, I guess the main thing I wanted to get to was a backup. Most of the
> places I checked online suggested (strongly) that you should partition
> before doing a backup.
> This is getting more complicated than I realized. I think I may just see
> about finding a program that does this automatically and leave it at that.
> I usually like trying things "hands on", but I don't want to mess up
> anything, either.
> Thanks for the info :)


The only reason I can think of to partition *anything* before you back
up, is to make sure the drive that will be holding your back up is ready
to accept it. You do not need, nor want, to partition the hard drive
that contains all your original data before you back it up. Generally,
partitioning a hard drive erases the data on it. There is software out
there that allows you to do it without losing the data, but it's
somewhat risky, and if anything goes wrong you'll most likely lose data.

If you could quote some of what you're reading that is recommending that
you partition before you do your back up, then maybe we can shed some
light on it for you.

why? 01-19-2007 09:17 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:04:54 -0500, <me5@> wrote:

>So, since I have had this computer for over a year, it wouldn't be a great
>idea to partition it?


Not without a full backup or backup important stuff , rather several
backups then test you can recover data first.

The other thing generally associated with backup is defragmenting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defragment

As you save files and fill more of the disk the backup you are going to
make becomes larger. However when you delete files the gaps where files
were are still present. Saving a new file may well use some of that free
space. However a backup image utility (see below) are smart enough to
backup only the space data uses.

This is where the defragment process comes into play. It uses as much of
the free space to move files closer together. It also does a few other
things, see the link above.

It's also a good idea to backup important data and files, before doing a
defrag as well. The last thing you want is a power failure when
rearranging files on your disk. Saying that the utilities log all the
actions and are very smart about protecting data.

A 1-for-all app is something like
http://www.paragon-software.com/hdm/home/personal/
other products are listed
http://www.paragon-software.com/products.htm

As I have generally used NT server products at home and work, I an used
to http://www.diskeeper.com/defrag.asp as a defragment tool.

Although defragment is built into Win 2000, XP , guessing VIsta as well.


>And, I guess the main thing I wanted to get to was a backup. Most of the
>places I checked online suggested (strongly) that you should partition
>before doing a backup.


Helps to post URLs for reference.

Some of the backup tools will create, where space permits a hidden
partition on your existing hardisk. This partition is generally hidden
so normal daily use can't access the dats. The backup application will
of course :-)


Backup utilities like Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image and the Paragon
products can create a clone image of the hardisk to CD/DVD/another
hardisk. Where this is useful in case of a hardisk failure or the need
to put everything back. Instead of reinstalling everything and taking
days. You re-image from the backup onto a new disk and everything should
be as it was, depending on how old the backup was of course?

>This is getting more complicated than I realized. I think I may just see
>about finding a program that does this automatically and leave it at that.


The tools listed allow you to create a bootable CD (for example) with
the backup and restore software on it. This will let you backup and
restore the entire image.

Acronis has a schedule facility and you can set it to say backup to CD /
files 'My Documents' and other files you choose.

>I usually like trying things "hands on", but I don't want to mess up
>anything, either.


Then a 2nd PC to test on.

>Thanks for the info :)
>"WhzzKdd" <i.broke.it@oh-no.invalid> wrote in message
>news:zc9sh.43$Ou1.20@newsfe04.lga...
>> me5@privacy.net wrote:
>>> Thank you very much for the great links! I really appreciate your
>>> help. I'm off to study :)
>>>
>>> "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
>>> news:j632r2hrej0mfql8marc3eus077s4cbgri@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:52:13 -0500, <me5@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer
>>>>> user (about
>>>>> the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a number of
>>>>> articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your drive".
>>>>

<snip>
>>
>> Why? Me gave good info, but just so you know, partitioning usually only
>> needs to be done once (at setup) and left alone. Playing around with
>> partitions can be risky, especially with Windows' utilities. There are
>> non-MS software programs that do it better.
>>
>> Partitioning is good for organization of information. I think of it like a
>> filing cabinet: each partition is a different drawer in that cabinet (and

<snip>

Me

01-19-2007 09:47 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 
Wow...I would love to be able to say more than just "thank you". You have
really helped me figure this out. I am so glad I didn't just follow what I
was reading and decided to bring my question here.
I did not know the part about backing up before defragging, either. I have
done defrags regularly about once a month and not even thought twice about
it. I just figured it was a regular part of maintainance.
And, thanks for the suggestions about the apps. I have SO much to learn.
And to think, I have been using computers for about 6 years and I thought I
knew a little. Guess there's always something to learn. :)
"why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
news:7nb2r214on109dbq7pokf6aep2vsvbojqa@4ax.com...
>
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:04:54 -0500, <me5@> wrote:
>
>>So, since I have had this computer for over a year, it wouldn't be a great
>>idea to partition it?

>
> Not without a full backup or backup important stuff , rather several
> backups then test you can recover data first.
>
> The other thing generally associated with backup is defragmenting.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defragment
>
> As you save files and fill more of the disk the backup you are going to
> make becomes larger. However when you delete files the gaps where files
> were are still present. Saving a new file may well use some of that free
> space. However a backup image utility (see below) are smart enough to
> backup only the space data uses.
>
> This is where the defragment process comes into play. It uses as much of
> the free space to move files closer together. It also does a few other
> things, see the link above.
>
> It's also a good idea to backup important data and files, before doing a
> defrag as well. The last thing you want is a power failure when
> rearranging files on your disk. Saying that the utilities log all the
> actions and are very smart about protecting data.
>
> A 1-for-all app is something like
> http://www.paragon-software.com/hdm/home/personal/
> other products are listed
> http://www.paragon-software.com/products.htm
>
> As I have generally used NT server products at home and work, I an used
> to http://www.diskeeper.com/defrag.asp as a defragment tool.
>
> Although defragment is built into Win 2000, XP , guessing VIsta as well.
>
>
>>And, I guess the main thing I wanted to get to was a backup. Most of the
>>places I checked online suggested (strongly) that you should partition
>>before doing a backup.

>
> Helps to post URLs for reference.
>
> Some of the backup tools will create, where space permits a hidden
> partition on your existing hardisk. This partition is generally hidden
> so normal daily use can't access the dats. The backup application will
> of course :-)
>
>
> Backup utilities like Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image and the Paragon
> products can create a clone image of the hardisk to CD/DVD/another
> hardisk. Where this is useful in case of a hardisk failure or the need
> to put everything back. Instead of reinstalling everything and taking
> days. You re-image from the backup onto a new disk and everything should
> be as it was, depending on how old the backup was of course?
>
>>This is getting more complicated than I realized. I think I may just see
>>about finding a program that does this automatically and leave it at that.

>
> The tools listed allow you to create a bootable CD (for example) with
> the backup and restore software on it. This will let you backup and
> restore the entire image.
>
> Acronis has a schedule facility and you can set it to say backup to CD /
> files 'My Documents' and other files you choose.
>
>>I usually like trying things "hands on", but I don't want to mess up
>>anything, either.

>
> Then a 2nd PC to test on.
>
>>Thanks for the info :)
>>"WhzzKdd" <i.broke.it@oh-no.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:zc9sh.43$Ou1.20@newsfe04.lga...
>>> me5@privacy.net wrote:
>>>> Thank you very much for the great links! I really appreciate your
>>>> help. I'm off to study :)
>>>>
>>>> "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
>>>> news:j632r2hrej0mfql8marc3eus077s4cbgri@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:52:13 -0500, <me5@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer
>>>>>> user (about
>>>>>> the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a number of
>>>>>> articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your drive".
>>>>>

> <snip>
>>>
>>> Why? Me gave good info, but just so you know, partitioning usually only
>>> needs to be done once (at setup) and left alone. Playing around with
>>> partitions can be risky, especially with Windows' utilities. There are
>>> non-MS software programs that do it better.
>>>
>>> Partitioning is good for organization of information. I think of it like
>>> a
>>> filing cabinet: each partition is a different drawer in that cabinet
>>> (and

> <snip>
>
> Me




clot 01-19-2007 09:57 PM

Re: Partition, Backup, etc...
 
me5@privacy.net wrote:
> I am trying to attempt learning more about being a good computer user
> (about the only way I can think of to word it) and I have found a
> number of articles, etc about "backing up" and "partitioning your
> drive".
> I am not sure what all of this means, but from the looks of it, it
> must be pretty important. Is there a basic, beginner's guide to
> doing this? I have tried searching, but most of the articles I have
> found are more advanced than I can understand.
>
> I would appreciate any links or help this group can provide.
>

You might wish to consider an additional hard drive and regularly clone
your "main" Hd to a slave (or second) drive.

Weekly, I clean my HDD, defrag it and then clone it (Acronis True Image)
to a second drive. That way, if the main drive goes belly-up, I can just
switch the cables and I'm running - having just lost a week's info. If
your wanting greater security, you might want to consider an external
hard drive which you can detach from the sytem and keep elsewhere.



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