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Bob B. 06-10-2005 11:56 PM

Electronic View Finders
 
As I look at cameras, trying to decide between a big, intrusive dSLR or
a smaller, but less capable 'point & shoot', the long zoom p&s cameras,
such as the Panasonic FZ5 or the Canon S2 IS, present themselves as a
reasonable compromise. Except that all these long zoom cameras use an
EVF, which I find very weird.

All the cameras with EVF that I have played with have problems - if you
look at a waving hand in them, you can see that they introduce lag. The
EVF display freezes up for a second after taking a shot. Plus its hard
to tell if things are in focus.

These are popular cameras - so do you just 'get used to it'? Do you
ignore the EVF and use the LCD screen (which doesn't seem to introduce
as much lag in my limited tests)? After you use an EVF for a while, do
you forget it's there?

The only non-SLR that I have seen that goes beyond a 3X zoom without an
EVF is the Canon G6 (which goes to about 140mm). So it seems if I want a
long lens, a dSLR is the only choice. So I hope to hear that the EVF is
something you get used to..

Bob B.

Tony Hwang 06-11-2005 12:18 AM

Re: Electronic View Finders
 
Bob B. wrote:
> As I look at cameras, trying to decide between a big, intrusive dSLR or
> a smaller, but less capable 'point & shoot', the long zoom p&s cameras,
> such as the Panasonic FZ5 or the Canon S2 IS, present themselves as a
> reasonable compromise. Except that all these long zoom cameras use an
> EVF, which I find very weird.
>
> All the cameras with EVF that I have played with have problems - if you
> look at a waving hand in them, you can see that they introduce lag. The
> EVF display freezes up for a second after taking a shot. Plus its hard
> to tell if things are in focus.
>
> These are popular cameras - so do you just 'get used to it'? Do you
> ignore the EVF and use the LCD screen (which doesn't seem to introduce
> as much lag in my limited tests)? After you use an EVF for a while, do
> you forget it's there?
>
> The only non-SLR that I have seen that goes beyond a 3X zoom without an
> EVF is the Canon G6 (which goes to about 140mm). So it seems if I want a
> long lens, a dSLR is the only choice. So I hope to hear that the EVF is
> something you get used to..
>
> Bob B.

Hi,
I have FZ20 as well as dSLR. What you mentioned does not bother me much.
Only time is when very low light situation. This kind of display has
knwon time lag in a few milliseconds. Look at the specs of LCD monitor
panels for an example. For causual shooting I use FZ20 lot more.
Tony
P.S. I had G4 but FZ20 replaced it for lack of enough zoom length.

Jim Townsend 06-11-2005 02:09 AM

Re: Electronic View Finders
 
Bob B. wrote:

> As I look at cameras, trying to decide between a big, intrusive dSLR or
> a smaller, but less capable 'point & shoot', the long zoom p&s cameras,
> such as the Panasonic FZ5 or the Canon S2 IS, present themselves as a
> reasonable compromise. Except that all these long zoom cameras use an
> EVF, which I find very weird.


It's not a weird thing.. It's a cost thing... :)

It costs much less to use a small LCD display that shows what the
lens sees by way of the sensor, than it does to design a parallel
optical viewfinder system that has the same high zoom ratio of the
lens.





Alan McGrath 06-11-2005 05:31 AM

Re: Electronic View Finders
 
Hi Bob,

I have an Olympus C770 which has a 10x zoom and an EVF. Before I bought it
I did a lot of thinking having previously owned a Fujifilm camera which also
had an EVF. To be honest I don't like EVF as it is not possible to tell if
the subject is in focus simply by looking through the viewfinder but I have
found that I tend to rely on the electronic readout that indicates focus and
once I get a green I press the shutter the rest of the way.

I believe it is a case of building up your confidence to trust the
electronic readout. I am happy enough now to trust my C770 so I have put
my doubts about EVF to rest.

Hope this helps.

Alan

"Bob B." <bobb@sphinx.com> wrote in message
news:bobb-8F1F6F.16561610062005@news.charter.net...
> As I look at cameras, trying to decide between a big, intrusive dSLR or
> a smaller, but less capable 'point & shoot', the long zoom p&s cameras,
> such as the Panasonic FZ5 or the Canon S2 IS, present themselves as a
> reasonable compromise. Except that all these long zoom cameras use an
> EVF, which I find very weird.
>
> All the cameras with EVF that I have played with have problems - if you
> look at a waving hand in them, you can see that they introduce lag. The
> EVF display freezes up for a second after taking a shot. Plus its hard
> to tell if things are in focus.
>
> These are popular cameras - so do you just 'get used to it'? Do you
> ignore the EVF and use the LCD screen (which doesn't seem to introduce
> as much lag in my limited tests)? After you use an EVF for a while, do
> you forget it's there?
>
> The only non-SLR that I have seen that goes beyond a 3X zoom without an
> EVF is the Canon G6 (which goes to about 140mm). So it seems if I want a
> long lens, a dSLR is the only choice. So I hope to hear that the EVF is
> something you get used to..
>
> Bob B.




Dan 06-11-2005 11:01 AM

Re: Electronic View Finders
 
My first digital camera, a Sony Mavica, had an EVF, and at first I
thought it would work and feel like my old SLR film camera. It was good
while shooting in bright light situations, but you definitely could not
confirm focus this way. The problem was that the EVF resolution was
just too low. It was also much brighter than the final photo came out.

When I replaced the Mavica this year with a Canon G6, I thought I would
miss the EVF. I didn't. The optical view finder shows a little less
than the final picture so nothing is missed. Since I crop pretty much
every picture I plan to keep, and since the G6 has lots of pixels, this
is never a problem.

If you are into a lot of macro photography, you will need to use the
G6's LCD display. The parallax error for very close photography is just
too much to make an optical view finder useful.


Don Stauffer 06-11-2005 01:43 PM

Re: Electronic View Finders
 
Dan wrote:
> My first digital camera, a Sony Mavica, had an EVF, and at first I
> thought it would work and feel like my old SLR film camera. It was good
> while shooting in bright light situations, but you definitely could not
> confirm focus this way. The problem was that the EVF resolution was
> just too low. It was also much brighter than the final photo came out.
>
> When I replaced the Mavica this year with a Canon G6, I thought I would
> miss the EVF. I didn't. The optical view finder shows a little less
> than the final picture so nothing is missed. Since I crop pretty much
> every picture I plan to keep, and since the G6 has lots of pixels, this
> is never a problem.
>
> If you are into a lot of macro photography, you will need to use the
> G6's LCD display. The parallax error for very close photography is just
> too much to make an optical view finder useful.
>



One the other hand, while they eliminate parallax, I find most LCDs
lacking in resolution. Macro photography requires careful placing of
the plane of best focus. With submegapixel displays you do not have
adequate resolution to do this. I believe macro work is the real domain
of the SLR. Since I can't afford a DSLR yet, I do my macro work on
film, then scan. That is, I keep my film camera for my macro work, use
the digicam for normal photography.

Charles Schuler 06-11-2005 02:23 PM

Re: Electronic View Finders
 

"Bob B." <bobb@sphinx.com> wrote in message
news:bobb-8F1F6F.16561610062005@news.charter.net...
> As I look at cameras, trying to decide between a big, intrusive dSLR or
> a smaller, but less capable 'point & shoot', the long zoom p&s cameras,
> such as the Panasonic FZ5 or the Canon S2 IS, present themselves as a
> reasonable compromise. Except that all these long zoom cameras use an
> EVF, which I find very weird.


I have an FZ5 and the EVF is marginal. It's a very useable camera, however.

> All the cameras with EVF that I have played with have problems - if you
> look at a waving hand in them, you can see that they introduce lag. The
> EVF display freezes up for a second after taking a shot. Plus its hard
> to tell if things are in focus.


You are correct on both counts: They have lag and it's only possible to see
gross focus errors. Luckily, on the FZ5 at least, the autofocus works well.
Also, the FZ5 lacks manual focus so the overall design concept is balanced.

> These are popular cameras - so do you just 'get used to it'? Do you
> ignore the EVF and use the LCD screen (which doesn't seem to introduce
> as much lag in my limited tests)? After you use an EVF for a while, do
> you forget it's there?


I also use a 20D, so the EVF always bothers me but not terribly so. As a
walk-around camera, the FZ5 works well and it goes with me all of the time
unless I intend to do serious photography. The best camera is the one you
have with you.

> The only non-SLR that I have seen that goes beyond a 3X zoom without an
> EVF is the Canon G6 (which goes to about 140mm). So it seems if I want a
> long lens, a dSLR is the only choice. So I hope to hear that the EVF is
> something you get used to..


Yes, you can get used to it and yes you can take very nice photos with it.



Stewy 06-12-2005 01:56 PM

Re: Electronic View Finders
 
In article <bobb-8F1F6F.16561610062005@news.charter.net>,
"Bob B." <bobb@sphinx.com> wrote:

> As I look at cameras, trying to decide between a big, intrusive dSLR or
> a smaller, but less capable 'point & shoot', the long zoom p&s cameras,
> such as the Panasonic FZ5 or the Canon S2 IS, present themselves as a
> reasonable compromise. Except that all these long zoom cameras use an
> EVF, which I find very weird.
>
> All the cameras with EVF that I have played with have problems - if you
> look at a waving hand in them, you can see that they introduce lag. The
> EVF display freezes up for a second after taking a shot. Plus its hard
> to tell if things are in focus.
>
> These are popular cameras - so do you just 'get used to it'? Do you
> ignore the EVF and use the LCD screen (which doesn't seem to introduce
> as much lag in my limited tests)? After you use an EVF for a while, do
> you forget it's there?
>
> The only non-SLR that I have seen that goes beyond a 3X zoom without an
> EVF is the Canon G6 (which goes to about 140mm). So it seems if I want a
> long lens, a dSLR is the only choice. So I hope to hear that the EVF is
> something you get used to..
>

The EVF is an attempt to solve a perennial digicam problem - how to give
an SLR-like viewfinder without a pentaprism. Most LCD viewscreens are
virtually useless in sunlight.

There is a one second delay after taking the photo to allow you to view
the exposure for approximate focus and framing. The clunk and shudder of
a conventional film SLR also blanks off the viewfinder for a quarter
second or so.

I use the EVF in my Fuji S7000 almost all the time as I am more used to
viewfinder framing than using the LCD despite the low resolution and
poor colour.

Ken Weitzel 06-12-2005 02:30 PM

Re: Electronic View Finders
 


Stewy wrote:
> In article <bobb-8F1F6F.16561610062005@news.charter.net>,
> "Bob B." <bobb@sphinx.com> wrote:
>
>
>>As I look at cameras, trying to decide between a big, intrusive dSLR or
>>a smaller, but less capable 'point & shoot', the long zoom p&s cameras,
>>such as the Panasonic FZ5 or the Canon S2 IS, present themselves as a
>>reasonable compromise. Except that all these long zoom cameras use an
>>EVF, which I find very weird.
>>
>>All the cameras with EVF that I have played with have problems - if you
>>look at a waving hand in them, you can see that they introduce lag. The
>>EVF display freezes up for a second after taking a shot. Plus its hard
>>to tell if things are in focus.
>>
>>These are popular cameras - so do you just 'get used to it'? Do you
>>ignore the EVF and use the LCD screen (which doesn't seem to introduce
>>as much lag in my limited tests)? After you use an EVF for a while, do
>>you forget it's there?
>>
>>The only non-SLR that I have seen that goes beyond a 3X zoom without an
>>EVF is the Canon G6 (which goes to about 140mm). So it seems if I want a
>>long lens, a dSLR is the only choice. So I hope to hear that the EVF is
>>something you get used to..
>>

>
> The EVF is an attempt to solve a perennial digicam problem - how to give
> an SLR-like viewfinder without a pentaprism. Most LCD viewscreens are
> virtually useless in sunlight.
>
> There is a one second delay after taking the photo to allow you to view
> the exposure for approximate focus and framing. The clunk and shudder of
> a conventional film SLR also blanks off the viewfinder for a quarter
> second or so.
>
> I use the EVF in my Fuji S7000 almost all the time as I am more used to
> viewfinder framing than using the LCD despite the low resolution and
> poor colour.


Hi...

Let me add to that the capability of reviewing shots with
the EVF (at least on Oly's) no matter how bright the
ambient light is.

Perhaps not too much value; but really handy if for instance
you're bracketing on a really sunny day and for whatever
reason want to delete the obvious unwanted exposures.

Take care.

Ken



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