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Terry Pinnell 03-22-2005 05:09 PM

Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
I want to add comments to photos (JPG format) for future reference, in
a methodical fashion, but there seem to be several places for them.
Could someone summarise the options and recommend the most useful
please?

These are those I've found so far:

1. ThumbsPlus 7 has 'Annotation' in File Properties>Database. But I'm
not yet sure if it is preserved in the file itself, or just in TP's
database.

2. IrfanView 3.9.5 Image Properties>Comment. Are these *the* 'JPEG
Comments' that are preserved in the file itself?

3. IrfanView IPTC Information has several fields, including Caption,
Categories, and Keywords. If I anticipate wanting to *search* for a
photo, would I be better off using Keywords?

4. Windows XP, in a My Computer or Explorer folder, r-click, then
Properties>Summary displays a 'Comments' box. But it clearly isn't the
'JPEG Comment'. (It can be completed for *any* type of file.)

5. ThumbsPlus 7 File Properties>Keywords. But this does not appear to
be the same Keyword field as used by IrfanView.

Maybe I'm missing something basic here, but IMO this scene seems a bit
of a mess! I would have thought there was a popular requirement for
some *standard* means of adding, editing and preserving 'user
comments'.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK


bob 03-22-2005 05:19 PM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
Terry Pinnell wrote:
> I want to add comments to photos (JPG format) for future reference, in
> a methodical fashion, but there seem to be several places for them.
> Could someone summarise the options and recommend the most useful
> please?


For what purpose? If it's just for your reference, and if you can keep
track of what you've done, and realize that other software might wipe
them out, then any of the methods you mention are fine.

If it's for posterity, then I can suggest several alternatives:

1) make a text file with the annotations (file1.jpg & file1.txt).

2) use a different file format (like .psd or .tif) and put the comments
on a layer.

3) make a copy of the .jpg and write the comments on the photo, or
alternately, in the margin (file1.jpg & file1.annotated.jpg)

4) make a digital scrapbook and save it in .pdf format.

Bob

paul 03-22-2005 05:42 PM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
IPTC is the best, intended for press photographers to communicate in a
standardized way. Jpeg comment is a bit of a kludge, I believe it goes
in the EXIF along with camera information. I wish I remembered all this
better but you are asking the right questions. If you decide to use TIF
for some images, there will be no jpeg comment. Beware some programs
will store this info in an imperfect non-standard manner that may not be
readable in other programs in the future.

I use a text file with matching file name as mentioned above. This also
allows me to include an index.txt for the whole folder full of shots and
it's guaranteed to be readable in the future & not become a corrupted
database. I have my own custom setup for creating & presenting these
text files, I don't know if there is a program that does this for you
but it would be nice if you could find such a thing. HTML based web
galleries provide something similar in a format that anyone can read so
that's one way to get this effect. Then you would have a duplicate
subfolder reduced for web with thumbnails an index and a way to present
the annotations beside the picture which is handy.

Terry Pinnell wrote:

> I want to add comments to photos (JPG format) for future reference, in
> a methodical fashion, but there seem to be several places for them.
> Could someone summarise the options and recommend the most useful
> please?
>
> These are those I've found so far:
>
> 1. ThumbsPlus 7 has 'Annotation' in File Properties>Database. But I'm
> not yet sure if it is preserved in the file itself, or just in TP's
> database.
>
> 2. IrfanView 3.9.5 Image Properties>Comment. Are these *the* 'JPEG
> Comments' that are preserved in the file itself?
>
> 3. IrfanView IPTC Information has several fields, including Caption,
> Categories, and Keywords. If I anticipate wanting to *search* for a
> photo, would I be better off using Keywords?
>
> 4. Windows XP, in a My Computer or Explorer folder, r-click, then
> Properties>Summary displays a 'Comments' box. But it clearly isn't the
> 'JPEG Comment'. (It can be completed for *any* type of file.)
>
> 5. ThumbsPlus 7 File Properties>Keywords. But this does not appear to
> be the same Keyword field as used by IrfanView.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something basic here, but IMO this scene seems a bit
> of a mess! I would have thought there was a popular requirement for
> some *standard* means of adding, editing and preserving 'user
> comments'.
>


David Dyer-Bennet 03-22-2005 07:33 PM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> writes:

> I want to add comments to photos (JPG format) for future reference, in
> a methodical fashion, but there seem to be several places for them.
> Could someone summarise the options and recommend the most useful
> please?
>
> These are those I've found so far:
>
> 1. ThumbsPlus 7 has 'Annotation' in File Properties>Database. But I'm
> not yet sure if it is preserved in the file itself, or just in TP's
> database.


ThumbsPlus also supports IPTC fields, and that's where you should be
putting such information.

> 2. IrfanView 3.9.5 Image Properties>Comment. Are these *the* 'JPEG
> Comments' that are preserved in the file itself?
>
> 3. IrfanView IPTC Information has several fields, including Caption,
> Categories, and Keywords. If I anticipate wanting to *search* for a
> photo, would I be better off using Keywords?


I'm guessing you're a ThumbsPlus user. So yes, keywords are the
easiest thing to search for. Luckily thumbs plus will transfer IPTC
keywords into its database, so that all works out.

> 4. Windows XP, in a My Computer or Explorer folder, r-click, then
> Properties>Summary displays a 'Comments' box. But it clearly isn't the
> 'JPEG Comment'. (It can be completed for *any* type of file.)
>
> 5. ThumbsPlus 7 File Properties>Keywords. But this does not appear to
> be the same Keyword field as used by IrfanView.


That's a keyword in the ThumbsPlus database.

However, with proper settings ThumbsPlus will pick up the IPTC
keywords and place them into the database, thus giving you the best of
both worlds.

> Maybe I'm missing something basic here, but IMO this scene seems a bit
> of a mess! I would have thought there was a popular requirement for
> some *standard* means of adding, editing and preserving 'user
> comments'.


I have no idea what Win XP does, but I'd ignore it a short-term
proprietary wierdness. I'm not running XP on my desktop.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

Greg 03-22-2005 10:00 PM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
PixVue (www.pixvue.com) allows you to view and edit both IPTC and XMP
metadata in JPEG, TIFF, and RAW files.

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:tqi0411fnbu4511eunqh99m9rnjlm4re19@4ax.com...
> I want to add comments to photos (JPG format) for future reference, in
> a methodical fashion, but there seem to be several places for them.
> Could someone summarise the options and recommend the most useful
> please?
>
> These are those I've found so far:
>
> 1. ThumbsPlus 7 has 'Annotation' in File Properties>Database. But I'm
> not yet sure if it is preserved in the file itself, or just in TP's
> database.
>
> 2. IrfanView 3.9.5 Image Properties>Comment. Are these *the* 'JPEG
> Comments' that are preserved in the file itself?
>
> 3. IrfanView IPTC Information has several fields, including Caption,
> Categories, and Keywords. If I anticipate wanting to *search* for a
> photo, would I be better off using Keywords?
>
> 4. Windows XP, in a My Computer or Explorer folder, r-click, then
> Properties>Summary displays a 'Comments' box. But it clearly isn't the
> 'JPEG Comment'. (It can be completed for *any* type of file.)
>
> 5. ThumbsPlus 7 File Properties>Keywords. But this does not appear to
> be the same Keyword field as used by IrfanView.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something basic here, but IMO this scene seems a bit
> of a mess! I would have thought there was a popular requirement for
> some *standard* means of adding, editing and preserving 'user
> comments'.
>
> --
> Terry, West Sussex, UK
>




Terry Pinnell 03-23-2005 11:10 AM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
"Greg" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>PixVue (www.pixvue.com) allows you to view and edit both IPTC and XMP
>metadata in JPEG, TIFF, and RAW files.


Thanks very much for all four replies. I'm pursuing all of them,
except for the 'separate text file' approach, as that wouldn't square
with the disorganised present state of my photos. (I'm still not
settled on a 100% consistent file naming system, so filenames get
changed a lot, and editing is by no means complete. No way could I
manage comments separate from the image itself!)

I'd assumed that 'JPEG Comments' would be the simple tool I needed,
but from your feedback and my research it seems IPTC has more going
for it. Yet I see that several popular image editors don't support
IPTC, such as PaintShop Pro 8 which I use to complement ThumbsPlus 7.
Does that mean that if I've assigned an IPTC caption or keyword etc to
a JPG, and I later happen to edit it in PSP8, that program will
destroy my entries?

Need to try out some of David's suggestions with ThumbsPlus; sounds
promising.

I've had only minutes with PixVue so far, but it looks very powerful.
So good for versatilty - but probably much of it will be redundant for
me. So hope I'm not paying a price in terms of its resource usage.

Going through PixVue's (online) Help now. But may I raise a couple of
queries with Greg or any other PixVue user please, about one specific
feature. With a JPG selected in Explorer, R-click>Annotate>Add Keyword
pops up a list of the *previous* keywords I happen to have used.
Surely it's unlikely I would want to add those to a quite different
image in a different folder? And after a few hours won't it be an
unmanageable list? Can I remove those 'presets' please?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK


Morten L.Pedersen 03-23-2005 11:23 AM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
Hi!

I also use Pixvue to add comments / keywords to my JPEGS.
I think the big advantage of using this approach is, that the data
describing your picture is contained in the picture itself instead of in
some sort of databasefile.
I use Picasa 2 for managing / searching for my picture. Here I can search
for the metadata I have added to my pictures using Pixvue.
When some day I want to change to something else than Picasa 2 I dont need
to convert database - the "database" is already contained in my pictures.

Regards



"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:ech241lcqflrrh4ki2cc7hvtrjdt8ubo7i@4ax.com...
> "Greg" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >PixVue (www.pixvue.com) allows you to view and edit both IPTC and XMP
> >metadata in JPEG, TIFF, and RAW files.

>
> Thanks very much for all four replies. I'm pursuing all of them,
> except for the 'separate text file' approach, as that wouldn't square
> with the disorganised present state of my photos. (I'm still not
> settled on a 100% consistent file naming system, so filenames get
> changed a lot, and editing is by no means complete. No way could I
> manage comments separate from the image itself!)
>
> I'd assumed that 'JPEG Comments' would be the simple tool I needed,
> but from your feedback and my research it seems IPTC has more going
> for it. Yet I see that several popular image editors don't support
> IPTC, such as PaintShop Pro 8 which I use to complement ThumbsPlus 7.
> Does that mean that if I've assigned an IPTC caption or keyword etc to
> a JPG, and I later happen to edit it in PSP8, that program will
> destroy my entries?
>
> Need to try out some of David's suggestions with ThumbsPlus; sounds
> promising.
>
> I've had only minutes with PixVue so far, but it looks very powerful.
> So good for versatilty - but probably much of it will be redundant for
> me. So hope I'm not paying a price in terms of its resource usage.
>
> Going through PixVue's (online) Help now. But may I raise a couple of
> queries with Greg or any other PixVue user please, about one specific
> feature. With a JPG selected in Explorer, R-click>Annotate>Add Keyword
> pops up a list of the *previous* keywords I happen to have used.
> Surely it's unlikely I would want to add those to a quite different
> image in a different folder? And after a few hours won't it be an
> unmanageable list? Can I remove those 'presets' please?
>
> --
> Terry, West Sussex, UK
>




Terry Pinnell 03-23-2005 12:47 PM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
"Morten L.Pedersen" <mlp@melped.dk> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I also use Pixvue to add comments / keywords to my JPEGS.
>I think the big advantage of using this approach is, that the data
>describing your picture is contained in the picture itself instead of in
>some sort of databasefile.
>I use Picasa 2 for managing / searching for my picture. Here I can search
>for the metadata I have added to my pictures using Pixvue.
>When some day I want to change to something else than Picasa 2 I dont need
>to convert database - the "database" is already contained in my pictures.
>
>Regards


Thanks. I've recently installed Picasa too. I see I can add captions
there. Do you use that? Ditto Keywords and Labels? I'm guessing all
these are 'proprietary', but would appreciate confirmation. Even if
so, Picasa looks a nice application. Pity the only folder organisation
is 'flat' though, losing my carefully-structured hierarchy ;-(

My only issue with PixVue is that it looks pretty daunting! I get two
context menus on r-clicking any file, and each of them has many
entries - including some (like Cut, Copy, Delete) that sound as if
they duplicate standard Explorer ones, and so far don't seem to do
anything. Guess I'm jumping the gun though; have yet to read all the
Help <g>.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK


Morten L.Pedersen 03-23-2005 01:07 PM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:8vo241lqo9uin9lrhiavp7gdeuu8conbke@4ax.com...
> "Morten L.Pedersen" <mlp@melped.dk> wrote:
>
> >Hi!
> >
> >I also use Pixvue to add comments / keywords to my JPEGS.
> >I think the big advantage of using this approach is, that the data
> >describing your picture is contained in the picture itself instead of in
> >some sort of databasefile.
> >I use Picasa 2 for managing / searching for my picture. Here I can search
> >for the metadata I have added to my pictures using Pixvue.
> >When some day I want to change to something else than Picasa 2 I dont

need
> >to convert database - the "database" is already contained in my pictures.
> >
> >Regards

>
> Thanks. I've recently installed Picasa too. I see I can add captions
> there. Do you use that? Ditto Keywords and Labels? I'm guessing all
> these are 'proprietary', but would appreciate confirmation. Even if
> so, Picasa looks a nice application. Pity the only folder organisation
> is 'flat' though, losing my carefully-structured hierarchy ;-(


I've tried adding captions in Picasa, and it is written in to the JPEG file.
But it seems like Picasa can't deal with special letters (I use a danish
keyboard layout) for some reason, so I only use Pixvue to add captions,
keywords and other metadata. That is except for captions for videofiles.
Here you cannot use Pixvue but has to rely on Picasa.

I also think Picasa is a nice app.
The only thing I'm a little uncertain about is the backup function.
Do you know if its relyable ?

>
> My only issue with PixVue is that it looks pretty daunting! I get two
> context menus on r-clicking any file, and each of them has many
> entries - including some (like Cut, Copy, Delete) that sound as if
> they duplicate standard Explorer ones, and so far don't seem to do
> anything. Guess I'm jumping the gun though; have yet to read all the
> Help <g>.
>


I get one menu on r-click. Then there's submenus for Pixvue functions.
Cut/copy/paste on these submenues only concerns picture-metadata (Eg. copy
on the Pixvue-menu copies metadata which you can paste in to another
JPEG-file).
I use the copy/paste and template functions a lot. They make it pretty fast
to add metadata to a lot of pictures.

> --
> Terry, West Sussex, UK
>




Greg 03-23-2005 08:25 PM

Re: Adding comments to JPEGs?
 
The keyword context menu popup is a list of the 20 most recently used
keywords. Since often you annotate related images, it's handy to have the
most recently used keywords quickly available. Of course, you can always
add any keyword you want through the edit dialog. You can also clear the
list of keywords (and the other auto complete entries) as well as configure
a number of other things using the PixVue control panel applet.

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:ech241lcqflrrh4ki2cc7hvtrjdt8ubo7i@4ax.com...
> "Greg" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >PixVue (www.pixvue.com) allows you to view and edit both IPTC and XMP
> >metadata in JPEG, TIFF, and RAW files.

> ...
> I've had only minutes with PixVue so far, but it looks very powerful.
> So good for versatilty - but probably much of it will be redundant for
> me. So hope I'm not paying a price in terms of its resource usage.
>
> Going through PixVue's (online) Help now. But may I raise a couple of
> queries with Greg or any other PixVue user please, about one specific
> feature. With a JPG selected in Explorer, R-click>Annotate>Add Keyword
> pops up a list of the *previous* keywords I happen to have used.
> Surely it's unlikely I would want to add those to a quite different
> image in a different folder? And after a few hours won't it be an
> unmanageable list? Can I remove those 'presets' please?
>
> --
> Terry, West Sussex, UK





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