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manishkp84@gmail.com 02-02-2007 09:32 AM

ok guys
 
I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners


Andrew Thompson 02-02-2007 09:49 AM

Re: ok guys
 
On Feb 2, 8:32 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners


Since you seem to be making attempts to
make yourself clearly understood, I will add...

A regular poster around here who likes
books, maintains a list of reviews of Java
books. You might find something from
their page..
<http://www.techbookreport.com/JavaIndex.html>


...Now some other tips.

"Which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners?"

Is a good way to ask for the information
you wanted, in that it is specifically a
question, and ends with that '?' mark
that clearly identifies it as a question.

The meaning of the exact text you put,
suggests to me that *you* are about to
tell *me* the name of a good book for
JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners!

Also,
"ok guys"
...is not a very clear title. A much better
title might have been..
"JSP/J2EE/servlet book for beginners"
...or..
"JSP/J2EE/servlet book for beginners?"

HTH

Andrew T.


Mark Space 02-02-2007 07:25 PM

Re: ok guys
 
Andrew Thompson wrote:
> On Feb 2, 8:32 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners

>
> Since you seem to be making attempts to
> make yourself clearly understood, I will add...


Somewhat less sarcastically, I like O'Reilly's Hear First JSP and
Servlets. I don't have one for J2EE.

Daniel Pitts 02-02-2007 07:50 PM

Re: ok guys
 
On Feb 2, 11:25 am, Mark Space <marksp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Andrew Thompson wrote:
> > On Feb 2, 8:32 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners

>
> > Since you seem to be making attempts to
> > make yourself clearly understood, I will add...

>
> Somewhat less sarcastically, I like O'Reilly's Hear First JSP and
> Servlets. I don't have one for J2EE.



I didn't sense any sarcasm.
Actually, Andrew seemed more helpful than he usually does with such a
poorly phrase post.
He usually excludes any answers to the posters questions, and focuses
on helping the poster ask more helpful questions.


nukleus 02-02-2007 08:25 PM

Re: ok guys
 
In article <1170409758.817629.203530@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups .com>, "Andrew
Thompson" <andrewthommo@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 2, 8:32 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners

>
>Since you seem to be making attempts to
>make yourself clearly understood, I will add...
>
>A regular poster around here who likes
>books, maintains a list of reviews of Java
>books. You might find something from
>their page..
><http://www.techbookreport.com/JavaIndex.html>


He is not asking you what "regular posters do here",
or what "regular posters" mean on the first place.

He just want some info.

Simple as that.

Enough.

>
>...Now some other tips.
>
>"Which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners?"
>
>Is a good way to ask for the information
>you wanted, in that it is specifically a
>question, and ends with that '?' mark
>that clearly identifies it as a question.
>
>The meaning of the exact text you put,
>suggests to me that *you* are about to
>tell *me* the name of a good book for
>JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners!
>
>Also,
> "ok guys"
>...is not a very clear title. A much better
>title might have been..
> "JSP/J2EE/servlet book for beginners"
>...or..
> "JSP/J2EE/servlet book for beginners?"
>
>HTH
>
>Andrew T.
>


Andrew Thompson 02-02-2007 09:51 PM

Re: ok guys
 
On Feb 3, 7:25 am, nukl...@invalid.addr (nukleus) wrote:
> In article <1170409758.817629.203...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups .com>, "Andrew

...
> Thompson" <andrewtho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 2, 8:32 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >> I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners

....
> >A regular poster around here who likes
> >books, maintains a list of reviews of Java
> >books. You might find something from
> >their page..
> ><http://www.techbookreport.com/JavaIndex.html>

>
> He is not asking you what "regular posters do here",
> or what "regular posters" mean on the first place.


For the purpose of clarity, I will expand
on that paragraph.

"I only recommend what I like or can vouch for.
I do not like books, when they go out of date so
quickly, and make such a large hole in my budget.

However, there are people who post to the
comp.lang.java.* hierarchy usenet newsgroups
whose /opinions/ I would trust, and one in
particular likes books so much, that they have
prepared a page of reviews of books related to
Java and computing subjects.

That person, TechBookReport/Pan, might be
along at any moment to suggest the perfect
book(s), but in the meantime, you might find
what you need at their book reviews web-page.

The page is here..
<http://www.techbookreport.com/JavaIndex.html>"

Note the OP is not that confident with use
of English, so I felt an abbreviated and simpler
form, better communicated the idea.

Could you explain it better?*

> He just want some info.


Yes he did. That is why I got to the point quickly.

* ..and when I say 'better', I mean in an equally
brief (or close) form, as opposed to your usual
rambling style, vis..
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=epomkf$2v3v$10@sage.ukr.net>
...over 400 lines of text, to explain how you
could not work your IDE.

Perhaps you should brush up on your own
communication skills, by my example above.

> Simple as that.


Simple? Indeed..

Andrew T.


nukleus 02-03-2007 01:47 AM

Re: ok guys
 
In article <1170453079.613812.23990@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups. com>, "Andrew
Thompson" <andrewthommo@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 3, 7:25 am, nukl...@invalid.addr (nukleus) wrote:
>> In article <1170409758.817629.203...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups .com>, "Andrew

>...
>> Thompson" <andrewtho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Feb 2, 8:32 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >> I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners

>....
>> >A regular poster around here who likes
>> >books, maintains a list of reviews of Java
>> >books. You might find something from
>> >their page..
>> ><http://www.techbookreport.com/JavaIndex.html>

>>
>> He is not asking you what "regular posters do here",
>> or what "regular posters" mean on the first place.

>
>For the purpose of clarity, I will expand
>on that paragraph.


Appreciated. I'd be curious to see
how high you can fly.

>"I only recommend what I like or can vouch for.


Clear to a five year old.

>I do not like books,


And I hate them. Because it is nothing but
business. There is a term called paper stuffing,
or something of this kind, and it is used just
about anywhere you look. Not only books.
What it is, is they have but a few ideas to
print, that could fit on few pages, but they
need to make a book out of this tiny lil piece
o crap. And so they make pictures, tell about
their grandma, and things like that.
But if you want to get the answers to your question,
you'd have to buy yet another book on the same subject,
and then another one. Because basically all of them
are screwed up and contain but a snapshot.
You know how big is my technical library?
Sorry, I don't want anyone to know.
On just about ANY subject of my interest
i have at least 3 different books,
and...

The most amazing thing is,
when I actually want to do something,
it somehow escapes those books.
I wonder: where is it gone?
It is one of the standard things to be done.

So...

I have to go out and buy yet another book,
where i can find about 10 pages of useful information,
and that is if I am lucky.

You like these fat paragraphs?

:---}

>when they go out of date so quickly,


If that was the biggest problem with them.
Reference material shouldn't outdate so quickly.
It is like 2+2=4 is not that easy to beat.

>and make such a large hole in my budget.


That hurts.
I do not even want to think about how many
tens of thousands of bux i wasted on all this crap.

Just futures trading literature, at $40-$60 bux/piece
translates into at least $5k.
And it is all crap. I studied it in detail.
ALL their crap that does not work, even in principle,
and I wasted enough time to write programs of all kinds.
Actually, I do have one system that seems to be able
to trade currencies and probably better than all of those
"specialists" combined, at least according to the reports
the trading program produces.

You know why?

Because that system uses the templates of their minds.
So, whatever those heavy dudy Wall street traders
can even dream in their wildest dreams,
is automatically converted into several patterns,
used to modify various parameters.
Because their minds are the minds of puppets,
and, no matter what fat boss stands behind their back,
they all operate according to simple templates,
and if THAT is the case, then you can make a computer
program that will perform even better than they
can imagine in their wildest dreams.

You like?

That was about books.
Just don't get lost.

>However, there are people who post to the
>comp.lang.java.* hierarchy usenet newsgroups
>whose /opinions/ I would trust, and one in
>particular likes books so much, that they have
>prepared a page of reviews of books related to
>Java and computing subjects.


Well, everybody has his own twist.

I, personally, would prefer to talk to a human
and get an answer withing minutes if not seconds,
instead of going thru piles of that garbage
in the books where all they are doing it seems
is "making money".

I am amazed to see the mankind being reduced
to the level of money making machine,
but that is another subject.

>That person, TechBookReport/Pan, might be
>along at any moment to suggest the perfect
>book(s),


Oh,
there is even a used shue salesman around here?
I'd like to talk to one of those specimen,
and if you give me his nick or email addres
or anything that helps to look at his royal woiks,
i could probably tickle him a lil bit.
I like those.

>but in the meantime, you might find
>what you need at their book reviews web-page.


Nope. Sorry.
That is about the LAST thing I need.
I can talk to people like you, and get more
info in minutes than I can possibly get from
their books or manuals.

>The page is here..
><http://www.techsuckingbookreport.com/JavaFartIndex.html>"


Sorry, not interested.
But thanks for the pointer.

>Note the OP is not that confident with use
>of English, so I felt an abbreviated and simpler
>form, better communicated the idea.


Well, I am not sure you realized who he is.
You see, you are telling him how to name the
thread that it makes more sense to those who
know something about it,
but what happened at the end?

Well, YOU are sitting on this cunning thread
and he got your attention nevertheless.

Me, in particular, was interested "what is that"?
And, sure enough, there is action there,
and all sorts of feathers fly all over.

So...

He's got EXACTLY what he wanted,
and he is prolly laughing at you fools,
teaching him the "family values".

He simply screwed you.
Simple as that.

Cause he is a conman on the first place,
you see?

I just enjoy this whole trip.

>Could you explain it better?*


Essplain what?
The guy is utterly clueless,
and when I talk to him,
sure, i have tendency of trying to help people,
just like you do, despite the fact that i was
told by one of my filthy rich buddies:

"Never help anyone.
They want to stay in that mud.
There is just nothing you can do to "help" them".
Don't waste your life on it all."

But...

I am a different animal.
I can not even imagine
that life force
is just an excersize in futility.

>> He just wants some info.


>Yes he did. That is why I got to the point quickly.


Just don't rush too much.
:--}

>* ..and when I say 'better', I mean in an equally
>brief (or close) form, as opposed to your usual
>rambling style, vis..


Oh, oh, oh, oh.

You just couldn't manage not to use that pin
to stick it you know where, right?

And YOU are the judge of what is what and who is who.
Is it the idea, sire?

><http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=epomkf$2v3v$10@sage.ukr.net>
>...over 400 lines of text, to explain how you
>could not work your IDE.


Not how could I not work that funky IDE,
but how it does not reconcile even
within its own environment, within itself.

Do you see the difference?
Or do you forever need to pervert things?
Are you a pervert, by ANY huble chance?

Btw, do you know what I am talking about?
Are you familiar with that particular IDE?

Can you please essplain to mere mortals
how is it possible that things I described in
my original post(s) happen?

Do you want me to give you a specific list
just one more time?
Sorry, i am kinda busy here with all this jazz
after you, personally, suggested to use layouts.
I have spent about a week screwing with all this
lunacy of their fancy IDE's, and, at the end,
realized that it was all in vain.
Converted about 5 of my frames and it all seemed
just perfect, and then boom!

You know why?
Because I already did exactly what they do,
except simplier.
I had a perfectly working XY layout, where
different gui elements were layed out on the
fly, and all the pixel offsets were correctly
calculated considering the font sizes and things
like that. So, they can not possibly do better
than that, even in principle, unles they use
zome woodoo tricks, i never heard of.

About the ONLY thing that was broken there on
the first place was a screwup in this whole
java architecture where you don't have access
to X and Y dimensions of a title bar, a menu
and you can't even dream about getting the XY
size of a scroll bar, because there is simply
no access to it from the frame you are working
on. Why? Is a scrollbar a part of a text area?
When you set XY dimensions of a text area,
how do you know how many pix will the scroll bar
take if you want your text be perfectly bound
on exact number of lines you want?
So, you can sample your font size and think
that you can simply multiply the Y size of font
by the number of lines and get yourself a
perfectly valid text area parameters.
But, when that scroll bar pops up, you may see
4.5 lines of text, which is ugly.

I spent literally hours on trying to see where
is that scrollbar object in the frame, pane
or text area. Well, it turns out it does not
exist in terms of being accessible from the
very object that OUGHT to contain it. Otherwise,
it is but a land of delusion, violating the very
principles of object oriented approach.

I wonder why?
Unless you actually display these things,
whatever you are trying to get in terms of insets
is going to be zeros,
and you can spend years trying to get various
parameters of your GUI, such as minumum size,
preferred size or what have you,
and just about all you are going to get is
structures filled with zeros.

What kind of technology is this?

So...

That is the reason there was this ugly hack,
not supported by Sun, of addNotify() in the
original code.

You see, after you issue that addNotify,
all of a sudden, your insets do contain a semi-valid
data, but not if you use menus. I mean this stuff
is on the par with real insanity. And when you
look into this addNotify thing, you'd have to read
about 50 pages of crap on virtual, transcontinental,
fully distributed and utterly prototyped,
intercontinental, 55 layers abstracted architectures.

But where to get the simpliest thing there is,
the size of a scroll bar, they don't even bother
to mention. But how they can render this stuff?

Can you imagine a situation, where you ask an
operating system about the object it uses,
and it won't even tell you it exists?

If you remove menu, everything displays fine,
and on different compilers. But, as soon as you
add the menus, forget about the validity of those
offsets. I wonder what could be so magic about menus?
What is the difference between a menu and a title bar
in terms of reporting the correct top insets?

So, mr. smart, with your great advice
i was able to look into this layout insanity,
and, if i recall correctly, some of you, priests
around here, would even go after each other throats
around the gridbag layout issue. Isn't that the case?

And the more I played with it, the more the whole
thing seemed to be just an utter lunacy,
where that fancy IDE could not even generate the code
it MUST generate when I move gui elements around or
drag their sizes. Otherwise, what is the whole point
of that IDE. I could calculate the constraons with
my hex calculator just as well. I could even stay
in decimal all the way.

Secondly, the constraints structure does not correspond
to minimal and preferred sizes even though they MUST
be using it because it is the only thing there is
on the first place.

So...

When you look at the constraints edit box,
where do you see the minimum and preferred sizes?
Well, there ain't such a thing.

Now...

What is "fills", even conceptually?
You see, it is like using hex calculator
to write your modern app. I understand they are
using it, but it does not make any sense from
the standpoint of visual gui design.

No matter what is the underlying implementation,
I should not be worried about these fills and
weights. That should all be done on a code or
source generation level.

When I work with IDE, just about ALL I care about
is to drag and drop things into the panel and
adjust their sizes, and grid snapping takes care
of minute differences.

That is ALL I am interested in.
I do not even want to know that constraints exist.
It is like worrying about the kernel internal
structures where accessing a file.
I have PLENTY of real things to take care of,
and not these funky, utterly screwed up gui-muis,
where you yourselves are ready to cut each other's
throats for it,
when one exclaims the gridbag is about the salvation
of mankind, and the other, like you,
says "watch out, it is the road to hell.
just wait till you set some things to 0.
That is where the REAL "fun" with gdridbags begin".

But you see, you'll waste a half an hour
jecking off about how screwed up I am,
but won't spend 5 minutes in describing the
pitfalls EXACTLY. At best, you'll point me
to some web page, filled to the brim
with all sorts of crap, that is about the
last thing I want to know at the moment,
because i have a very specific issue.

I don't want to know about their layers
upon layers upon layers of abstraction.
I just need a simple and very specific answer,
and if there IS no such an answer,
that means I've gotten myself into a mess
and better prepair to waste literally years
of my life just to learn the tricks of yet
another gadget, of which i've seen so many,
it is hard to imagine.

And on, and on, and on, and on.

Btw, did you have something to say?

>Perhaps you should brush up on your own
>communication skills, by my example above.


Sorry, it is too late fer dat.
Now I am just having fun with what i've got.
You have a problem with that?

Tell me, sire, what is the ultimate wisdom?

>> Simple as that.


>Simple? Indeed..


Good.

Just make sure that there are no free neurons
in your cockpit that might be working on
implying something you do not state in your post.

Get it?

And about the LAST thing i care about,
is what kind of one liners you like to read.

Here is about the best one:

"Coca cola is GOOD.
Drink coca cola!!!!!"

Are you salivating yet?

"Does name Pavlov rings the bell"?

I can tell you in one post more than
you can learn in a generation.

>Andrew T.
>


manishkp84@gmail.com 02-07-2007 11:23 AM

Re: ok guys
 
On Feb 2, 2:49 pm, "Andrew Thompson" <andrewtho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 8:32 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners

>
> Since you seem to be making attempts to
> make yourself clearly understood, I will add...
>
> A regular poster around here who likes
> books, maintains a list of reviews of Java
> books. You might find something from
> their page..
> <http://www.techbookreport.com/JavaIndex.html>
>
> ..Now some other tips.
>
> "Which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners?"
>
> Is a good way to ask for the information
> you wanted, in that it is specifically a
> question, and ends with that '?' mark
> that clearly identifies it as a question.
>
> The meaning of the exact text you put,
> suggests to me that *you* are about to
> tell *me* the name of a good book for
> JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners!
>
> Also,
> "ok guys"
> ..is not a very clear title. A much better
> title might have been..
> "JSP/J2EE/servlet book for beginners"
> ..or..
> "JSP/J2EE/servlet book for beginners?"
>
> HTH
>
> Andrew T.


thanks andrew.t
the link which you give me helped me lot


Andrew Thompson 02-07-2007 12:00 PM

Re: ok guys
 
On Feb 7, 10:23 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2:49 pm, "Andrew Thompson" <andrewtho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 2, 8:32 pm, "manishk...@gmail.com" <manishk...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:

>
> > > I wanted you to know which book is good for JSP/J2EE/servlet beginners

...
> > <http://www.techbookreport.com/JavaIndex.html>

...
> thanks andrew.t


You're welcome.

> the link which you give me helped me lot


TeckBookReport puts a lot of thought into
the reviews. I am glad they helped.

Andrew T.



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