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David Brown 01-06-2005 09:22 PM

Python Operating System???
 
Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or
something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly.

Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long
long time and the only possibilities I could find were C++ and assembly. I
don't mind assembly so much if I don't have to use it very often. But C++ is
so complicated and errors are pretty much impossible to find in the code for
me.

So, I was wondering if it would be possible to find a bootloader that loads
a python file at startup or something...

Is there an example somewhere of a Python OS?

Thanks!



Lucas Raab 01-06-2005 10:10 PM

Re: Python Operating System???
 
David Brown wrote:
> Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or
> something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly.
>
> Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long
> long time and the only possibilities I could find were C++ and assembly. I
> don't mind assembly so much if I don't have to use it very often. But C++ is
> so complicated and errors are pretty much impossible to find in the code for
> me.
>
> So, I was wondering if it would be possible to find a bootloader that loads
> a python file at startup or something...
>
> Is there an example somewhere of a Python OS?
>
> Thanks!
>
>


Hasn't there been numerous discussions about this in the past??

Arich Chanachai 01-06-2005 11:37 PM

Re: Python Operating System???
 
David Brown wrote:

>Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or
>something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly.
>
>Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long
>long time and the only possibilities I could find were C++ and assembly. I
>don't mind assembly so much if I don't have to use it very often. But C++ is
>so complicated and errors are pretty much impossible to find in the code for
>me.
>
>So, I was wondering if it would be possible to find a bootloader that loads
>a python file at startup or something...
>
>Is there an example somewhere of a Python OS?
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>
>

People don't make Python OSs because it's a serious pain in the
Deng-Xiao-ping. J/k, I am half kidding. Go to google groups, and
search for Python OS. You will find that this topic has been discussed
numerous times. There was another project other than Unununium which
was Python based, but it is not being developed any longer and I fail to
remember what it was called. So search away, you will find many
results! Alternatively you could contact the Unununium folks for help.

Note also that there are Java OSs as well (and probably others). But
then again, if you don't like C++, you probably won't like Java. They
can be very different languages, but in my experience, the reasons why
one does not like C++ is usually due to a quality/flaw that can also be
found in Java.

Carl Banks 01-07-2005 12:12 AM

Re: Python Operating System???
 
Arich Chanachai wrote:
> But
> then again, if you don't like C++, you probably won't like Java.

They
> can be very different languages, but in my experience, the reasons

why
> one does not like C++ is usually due to a quality/flaw that can also

be
> found in Java.


Oh, brother.

The Zen of Python says that "simple is better than complex" and
"complex is better than complicated". Java does pretty well here. C++
didn't even get "complicated is better than convoluted" right. There's
are a ton of flaws in C++ not found in Java.


--
CARL BANKS


Fuzzyman 01-07-2005 12:16 AM

Re: Python Operating System???
 
The bootloader would have to be a 'python-core'. Ideally a fast
implementation of just the python syntax and language features. Now
*that* would be an excellent basis for a restricted mode python
interpreter - which could make 'python applets' closer to a reality. It
would also make python for embedded systems and embedding python in
larger programs easier as well. A purely 'core language' implementation
with no libraries.....

Obviously you'd need file systems, drivers, and something to create the
functionality of the os and sys libraries. Basing it on the existing
Linux kernel would seem like a much more sensible idea....

There is/was a project (Peter Hansen ?) to produce a pure python file
system. that could be an interesting component.

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml



David Brown wrote:
> Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called

Unununium (or
> something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly.
>
> Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a

long
> long time and the only possibilities I could find were C++ and

assembly. I
> don't mind assembly so much if I don't have to use it very often. But

C++ is
> so complicated and errors are pretty much impossible to find in the

code for
> me.
>
> So, I was wondering if it would be possible to find a bootloader that

loads
> a python file at startup or something...
>
> Is there an example somewhere of a Python OS?
>
> Thanks!



Christopher Koppler 01-07-2005 12:27 AM

Re: Python Operating System???
 
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 16:12:54 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> Arich Chanachai wrote:
>> But
>> then again, if you don't like C++, you probably won't like Java.

> They
>> can be very different languages, but in my experience, the reasons

> why
>> one does not like C++ is usually due to a quality/flaw that can also

> be
>> found in Java.

>
> Oh, brother.
>
> The Zen of Python says that "simple is better than complex" and
> "complex is better than complicated". Java does pretty well here. C++
> didn't even get "complicated is better than convoluted" right. There's
> are a ton of flaws in C++ not found in Java.


Still, Java feels like C++ done right, while being more wrong >:-[

--
Christopher

If there was a scheme for Lisp world domination...


Roose 01-07-2005 01:50 AM

Re: Python Operating System???
 
What exactly do you mean by an operating system?

If you don't want to program in C/C++ then you're going to have a hard time.
I don't want to be too discouraging, but with that attitude I doubt you
would get very far.

It sounds like you want to make more of an OS shell -- no? You can
implement a shell on top of any OS and probably do it in a language like
Python.

But if it is going to be a complete OS in pure Python, uh, it won't be!
You'll have to do a lot of stuff in C, at the least interface with the
hardware.



"David Brown" <david@graydragon.net> wrote in message
news:10trb0mgiflcj4f@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or
> something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly.
>
> Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long
> long time and the only possibilities I could find were C++ and assembly. I
> don't mind assembly so much if I don't have to use it very often. But C++

is
> so complicated and errors are pretty much impossible to find in the code

for
> me.
>
> So, I was wondering if it would be possible to find a bootloader that

loads
> a python file at startup or something...
>
> Is there an example somewhere of a Python OS?
>
> Thanks!
>
>




Peter Hansen 01-07-2005 01:51 AM

Re: Python Operating System???
 
Fuzzyman wrote:
> There is/was a project (Peter Hansen ?) to produce a pure python file
> system. that could be an interesting component.


Good memory... uh, sort of. :-) It was probably me you're
thinking of, but the point of the project was solely a
"virtual" file system, to be used exclusively as a tool
for supporting automated testing. It has no concept of
persistence, no support for it in the design, and wouldn't
be what would help anyone in this respect. Sorry.

(Work on it has actually not progressed lately, because
there is no additional requirement driving the work.
The primitive initial state of the tool suffices so far.)

-Peter

Arich Chanachai 01-07-2005 02:08 AM

Re: Python Operating System???
 
Roose wrote:

>What exactly do you mean by an operating system?
>
>If you don't want to program in C/C++ then you're going to have a hard time.
>I don't want to be too discouraging, but with that attitude I doubt you
>would get very far.
>
>

Indeed, this is very true.

>It sounds like you want to make more of an OS shell -- no? You can
>implement a shell on top of any OS and probably do it in a language like
>Python.
>
>

He should just build around a linux core or use OS kit (if he is
serious/determined).

>But if it is going to be a complete OS in pure Python, uh, it won't be!
>You'll have to do a lot of stuff in C, at the least interface with the
>hardware.
>
>
>
>

He could use something like O' caml or Oz no? I might be confused, but
I understood them to be C/C++ comparable in terms of power and in that
they both compile vs. VMs and interpreters (for O' caml this is optional
I think). Or what about D?

John Roth 01-07-2005 04:10 AM

Re: Python Operating System???
 

"David Brown" <david@graydragon.net> wrote in message
news:10trb0mgiflcj4f@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello. I recently came across a free operating system called Unununium (or
> something like that) and it was developed in Python and Assembly.
>
> Now, I have been looking for a way to make an operating system for a long
> long time and the only possibilities I could find were C++ and assembly. I
> don't mind assembly so much if I don't have to use it very often. But C++
> is
> so complicated and errors are pretty much impossible to find in the code
> for
> me.
>
> So, I was wondering if it would be possible to find a bootloader that
> loads
> a python file at startup or something...
>
> Is there an example somewhere of a Python OS?


As far as I know, there's no working example. Unununium is still
very early development, and it's going off in a quite interesting
direction that is hardly standard.

Writing an operating system is a lot of work. The approach I'd
take would be to start out with an existing micro-kernel and
enhance it with a kernel level Python system so that you wouldn't
need any C or Asm level code in a typical process.

Then I'd pursue a restricted subset of Python that could be
compiled directly to machine code, and start recoding the
various C and Asm parts in that. See the PyPy project for
the direction they're taking for writing the Python system in
Python.

Have fun with the project!

John Roth


>
> Thanks!
>
>




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