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-   -   Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow after an exception is raised) (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t336439-exception-feature-creep-was-re-entering-in-the-normal-flow-after-an-exception-is-raised.html)

Lonnie Princehouse 10-01-2004 07:52 PM

Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow after an exception is raised)
 
In a recent post, Michele Simionato asked about resumable (or
re-entrant) exceptions, the basic idea being that when raised and
uncaught, these exceptions would only propagate backwards through a
limited number of frames before being implicitly ignored. Alex
Martelli pointed out that resumable exceptions are difficult to
implement, and that the need for them isn't pressing because it's
pretty easy to write a program with explicit error handling that works
just fine, citing Bjarne Stroustrup's thoughts on the same topic for
C++.
This is probably quite right.

Nonetheless, I tried to write some demo code that implemented
resumable exceptions, but ran face-first into a brick wall: I
couldn't find any way to manipulate the call stack (to execute code in
a frame other than the current one)

What if exceptions were given more control?

Proposal:

1. Call a __raise__ method in the exception when raised
2. Call an __uncaught__ method in every frame for which the exception
is not handled by an except clause. __uncaught__ would decide
whether or not to continue to propagate the exception to the next
frame. If __uncaught__ decides to abort the exception, then the
calling statement is aborted/ignored--- the implicit equivalent of:

try:
do_something()
except:
pass


Anyway, this is just idle speculation. I don't really see a need for
it, but it's interesting to ponder.


Here are some hypothetical uses:


1. An exception that propagates only n frames:

class QuietException(Exception):
def __init__(self, n):
Exception.__init__(self)
self.n = n

def __raise__(self):
self.counter = self.n

def __uncaught__(self):
if self.counter > 0:
self.counter -= 1
return True
else:
return False

2. An exception that keeps a traceback as it goes:

class TracingException(Exception):

def __raise__(self):
self.traceback = []

def __uncaught__(self):
self.traceback.append(sys._getframe(1))

....

try:
foo()
except TracingException, e:
# isn't this more elegant than sys.last_traceback?
import traceback
traceback.print_tb(e.traceback)


3. An exception that resumes execution if some global FAULT_TOLERANT
is true:

class FaultTolerantException(Exception):
def __uncaught__(self):
return not FAULT_TOLERANT

gabriele renzi 10-01-2004 08:40 PM

Re: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flowafter an exception is raised)
 
Lonnie Princehouse ha scritto:

> In a recent post, Michele Simionato asked about resumable (or
> re-entrant) exceptions, the basic idea being that when raised and
> uncaught, these exceptions would only propagate backwards through a
> limited number of frames before being implicitly ignored.


I don't understand: why resumable exceptions should be ignored after
they propagate for a limited number of frames?

the only idea of resumable exceptions I have is that they allow you to ,
well, resume excution from the point they were raised.

Erik Max Francis 10-01-2004 10:25 PM

Re: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flowafteran exception is raised)
 
gabriele renzi wrote:

> I don't understand: why resumable exceptions should be ignored after
> they propagate for a limited number of frames?
>
> the only idea of resumable exceptions I have is that they allow you to
> ,
> well, resume excution from the point they were raised.


Right. The idea is that you can catch the exception and resume it, in
which case execution continues from the point that the resumable
exception was _raised_. The exception, when caught, can still be
reraised (and another catcher resuming it will still cause it to resume
from the original point it was raised). If the exception is not caught,
then it acts as a normal exception and halts the program with a stack
trace.

--
__ Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ The color is red / Under my shoe
-- Neneh Cherry

Michele Simionato 10-02-2004 03:05 AM

Re: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow after an exception is raised)
 
finite.automaton@gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) wrote in message news:<4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google. com>...
> In a recent post, Michele Simionato asked about resumable (or
> re-entrant) exceptions, the basic idea being that when raised and
> uncaught, these exceptions would only propagate backwards through a
> limited number of frames before being implicitly ignored.


Well, actually that is NOT what I asked. Erik Max Francis got my point:

"""
The idea is that you can catch the exception and resume it, in
which case execution continues from the point that the resumable
exception was _raised_. The exception, when caught, can still be
reraised (and another catcher resuming it will still cause it to resume
from the original point it was raised). If the exception is not caught,
then it acts as a normal exception and halts the program with a stack
trace.
"""

I have no idea about how difficult would be to implement resumable exceptions
in Python; also I am not sure about their cost vs. benefit. For sure, in
2.5 years of Python programming this is first time I have got an use case
for resumable exceptions; still it is a contrived case. So, I am not in
dire need of resumable exceptions.
Nevertheless, it is possible that if we had resumable exceptions we
could use them as a control flow structure in non-exceptional situations.
One could speculate about the idea ...

Michele Simionato

Erik Max Francis 10-02-2004 03:18 AM

Re: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow afteran exception is raised)
 
Michele Simionato wrote:

> I have no idea about how difficult would be to implement resumable
> exceptions
> in Python; also I am not sure about their cost vs. benefit. For sure,
> in
> 2.5 years of Python programming this is first time I have got an use
> case
> for resumable exceptions; still it is a contrived case. So, I am not
> in
> dire need of resumable exceptions.
> Nevertheless, it is possible that if we had resumable exceptions we
> could use them as a control flow structure in non-exceptional
> situations.
> One could speculate about the idea ...


Resumable exceptions are for when you want to flag cases that may be
exceptional, but that some users of the library may not care about. A
good example would be a forgiving parser, where resumable exceptions
would be thrown whenever a technical violation, but one that can be
recovered from, occurs. This is actually a lot more common than you
think; Web browsers and server-side email processing systems are good
examples, where you may want to know about technical violations of
standards and RFCs, but still need to do something meaningful anyway.
In those cases, someone using the library can not bother catching those
resumable exceptions, in which case they'll act as normal exceptions, or
they can catch them and do something meaningful with them, or they can
simply blanket catch them and immediately resume, something like:

...
except (FirstResumableException, SecondResumableException), e:
e.resume()

Obviously, there are other ways to accomplish this, but they have to use
some mechanism other than exceptions.

--
__ Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ I will always remember / This moment
-- Sade

Paul Rubin 10-02-2004 03:34 AM

Re: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow after an exception is raised)
 
michele.simionato@gmail.com (Michele Simionato) writes:
> Nevertheless, it is possible that if we had resumable exceptions we
> could use them as a control flow structure in non-exceptional situations.
> One could speculate about the idea ...


Sure. You could raise a resumable exception whose handler runs some
code before resuming after the exception. The handling code could do
some stuff that raises its own resumable exception. Now you have two
resumable exceptions pending, and it would be cool if you could resume
the first one before resuming the second. In fact what you'd really
like is a "resumption" object created by raising the exception, that
you can pass control to at any time, sort of like yielding from a
generator. Maybe you're getting deja vu now, since this is basically
what Stackless Python continuations were. They give you a simple way
to implement coroutines and just about anything else you could want.

Paul Foley 10-02-2004 07:00 AM

Re: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow after an exception is raised)
 
On 1 Oct 2004 12:52:38 -0700, Lonnie Princehouse wrote:

> In a recent post, Michele Simionato asked about resumable (or
> re-entrant) exceptions, the basic idea being that when raised and
> uncaught, these exceptions would only propagate backwards through a
> limited number of frames before being implicitly ignored. Alex


What a strange idea.

> Nonetheless, I tried to write some demo code that implemented
> resumable exceptions, but ran face-first into a brick wall: I
> couldn't find any way to manipulate the call stack (to execute code in
> a frame other than the current one)


The mistake you're making is to conflate Python's exceptions with the
resumable exceptions you're trying to implement. Python exceptions
are more like Common Lisp's catch/throw mechanism (sort of a
dynamically scoped "goto") than they are like the condition system.
You can use Python's exception mechanism for the primitive control
transfer, and build something on top of that (but since you can't
write syntax in Python it's going to be butt-ugly). That's what Shai
Berger was trying to do.

Keep a list of (exception-type, function) pairs. Where you want a
try/except, write a try/finally instead, with the "try" part pushing
"except" handlers on the front of this list, and the "finally" part
taking them back off (to emulate dynamic binding...don't use threads).
Instead of using raise, look up the exception type in this list and
call the associated function, so it runs above the failure point in
the call stack (but note that it has to transfer control somewhere
else if you don't want to return). For restarts, do a similar thing,
mapping restart names to ("randomly" named) exception subclasses (as
catch tags); where you want a restart, write try/except using that
subclass name, push it on the restarts list, and to invoke it look up
the name and use raise on the tag. Or something.

--
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest -- Publilius Syrus

(setq reply-to
(concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))

gabriele renzi 10-02-2004 08:16 AM

Re: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flowafter an exception is raised)
 
Michele Simionato ha scritto:


> Nevertheless, it is possible that if we had resumable exceptions we
> could use them as a control flow structure in non-exceptional situations.
> One could speculate about the idea ...
>


I have the feeling I don't have an use for resumable exceptions mainly
because I was never exposed to the them.
Kind of a blub paradox.



I wonder if StacklessPython can handle this.
Resumable Exceptions are really easy to do if you can grab the current
continuation, but I seem to remember conts were banned from the
stackless world.

Lonnie Princehouse 10-02-2004 09:16 PM

Re: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow after an exception is raised)
 
michele.simionato@gmail.com (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<4edc17eb.0410011905.72494b5d@posting.google. com>...
>
> Well, actually that is NOT what I asked. Erik Max Francis got my point:
>


Indeed! I seem to have completely misinterpreted your post!

At least it.. raised.. some interesting conjecture about exceptions.
I wonder if yield could be abused to simulate resumable exceptions
under certain situations?

class ResumableException(Exception): pass

def foo():
if something_has_gone_wrong():
yield ResumableException
print "Resumed!"


result = foo()
if result is ResumableException:
if recovery_is_possible():
foo()
else:
raise result

Far from ideal, but it is a way of suspending and then resuming
execution. It does have the unfortunate caveat that the caller needs
to be aware of what's coming, which sort of defeats the point of
exceptions. A kind of homage to the things people do in languages
that lack exception-handling mechanisms...


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