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-   -   RE: Python and VS.Net (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t320021-re-python-and-vs-net.html)

Tim Peters 07-23-2003 04:24 AM

RE: Python and VS.Net
 
[Ravi]
> Has anyone tried building Python with VC++.NET? Does it work or fail
> horribly like I think it will.


Yes, several people have built it that way, and it works fine. You can get
into obscure kinds of trouble if you try to mix code compiled with VC6 and
VC7, though, because the C runtime systems are distinct (so, e.g.,
malloc()ing memory in one runtime and free()ing it in another, or passing
FILE* thingies across them, can lead to subtle-- or instantly
catastrophic --problems).

Note that all current Windows installers from PythonLabs install code
compiled with VC6, and the same will be true for 2.3 final (due out next
week). It also seems that 3rd-party extension modules compiled with VC7 are
still hard to come by.

> My boss seems to think it is good to have programs that are in managed
> code because it is more 'portable'. Not that there's another complete
> .NET runtime besides Microsoft's but he does not understand that.


If you're younger than him, you can reasonably hope to outlive him <wink>.

alas-it's-not-a-strategy-that-works-your-whole-career-ly y'rs - tim



Duncan Booth 07-23-2003 08:16 AM

RE: Python and VS.Net
 
"Tim Peters" <tim_one@email.msn.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org:

> [Ravi]
>> Has anyone tried building Python with VC++.NET? Does it work or fail
>> horribly like I think it will.

>
> Yes, several people have built it that way, and it works fine.

<snip>
>
>> My boss seems to think it is good to have programs that are in
>> managed code because it is more 'portable'. Not that there's another
>> complete .NET runtime besides Microsoft's but he does not understand
>> that.


Note that Python build using VC++.Net won't be managed code. Its just a
plain old unmanaged application built with the more recent compiler. Python
build for the managed code environment would be a whole different kettle of
fish.

--
Duncan Booth duncan@rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?

Neil Hodgson 07-23-2003 08:38 AM

Re: Python and VS.Net
 
Matt Gerrans:

> By the way, just because you compile something with the compiler that

comes
> with .NET doesn't mean it is managed code.


You can produce managed code rather than x86 code by adding the /clr
command line option. You may also have to fiddle some other options which
are incompatible with /clr.

Neil



Trent Mick 07-23-2003 07:33 PM

Re: Python and VS.Net
 
> If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that would be
> another story. That would be like Jython for .NET. I was hoping that was
> what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy was, but alas it was too good to
> be true: it is only (so far) a color-syntaxing Python editor that takes two
> or three minutes to load up.


You are mixing up two difference ideas. ActiveState's VisualPython is a
plugin for VS.NET to provide all the IDE stuff (like editting,
debugging, interactive shell, help, intellisense, etc) for Python
programmers.

The idea of integrating the Python language somehow into the .NET
framework is independent of VS.NET-the-IDE, though I suppose one might
like some level of connection between the two. Mark Hammond, before and
while at ActiveState did do some exploratory work in this direction. But
that is all it has come to so far: exploration. So your "too good to be
true" does (currently) apply to a so called Python.NET. This code is
currently in PyWin32's CVS tree one SourceForge:
http://sf.net/projects/pywin32
There is also the independent Kobra project that I have not looked at.

Trent

--
Trent Mick
TrentM@ActiveState.com


Matt Gerrans 07-24-2003 07:16 AM

Re: Python and VS.Net
 
"Trent Mick" wrote:
> > If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that would

be
> > another story. That would be like Jython for .NET. I was hoping that

was
> > what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy was, but alas it was too

good to
> > be true: it is only (so far) a color-syntaxing Python editor that takes

two
> > or three minutes to load up.

>
> You are mixing up two difference ideas. ActiveState's VisualPython is a
> plugin for VS.NET to provide all the IDE stuff (like editting,
> debugging, interactive shell, help, intellisense, etc) for Python
> programmers.


Uh, isn't that pretty much what I said? I don't think I mixed up the
ideas. I only said that what ActiveState's Visual Python was and what I
was originally hoping it would be were not the same.

> The idea of integrating the Python language somehow into the .NET
> framework is independent of VS.NET-the-IDE, though I suppose one might
> like some level of connection between the two. Mark Hammond, before and
> while at ActiveState did do some exploratory work in this direction. But
> that is all it has come to so far: exploration. So your "too good to be
> true" does (currently) apply to a so called Python.NET. This code is
> currently in PyWin32's CVS tree one SourceForge:
> http://sf.net/projects/pywin32
> There is also the independent Kobra project that I have not looked at.


Yes, I was aware of these, too. Despite Microsoft's claims about the .NET
platform being language-independent, it doesn't seem to be a simple task to
get Python going on it. So far, I think there are only VB.NET, C++, C#
and J#. No Python#, Perl# or Ruby#, as of yet...



Trent Mick 07-24-2003 04:40 PM

Re: Python and VS.Net
 
[Matt Gerrans wrote]
> "Trent Mick" wrote:
> > > If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that
> > > would be another story. That would be like Jython for .NET. I
> > > was hoping that was what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy
> > > was, but alas it was too good to be true: it is only (so far) a
> > > color-syntaxing Python editor that takes two or three minutes to
> > > load up.

> >
> > You are mixing up two difference ideas. ActiveState's VisualPython is a
> > plugin for VS.NET to provide all the IDE stuff (like editting,
> > debugging, interactive shell, help, intellisense, etc) for Python
> > programmers.

>
> Uh, isn't that pretty much what I said? I don't think I mixed up the
> ideas. I only said that what ActiveState's Visual Python was and what I
> was originally hoping it would be were not the same.


Okay, fair enough. It was my mistake in reading your post, then.

Apologies,
Trent

--
Trent Mick
TrentM@ActiveState.com


HN 07-25-2003 02:10 PM

Re: Python and VS.Net
 

> Yes, I was aware of these, too. Despite Microsoft's claims about the

..NET
> platform being language-independent, it doesn't seem to be a simple task

to
> get Python going on it. So far, I think there are only VB.NET, C++, C#
> and J#. No Python#, Perl# or Ruby#, as of yet...


This is probably because .NET is more suitable for statically typed
languages than for dynamic ones. However, many statically-typed
languages have .NET implementations. For example, Eiffel, which
is a very good language, in many aspects far superior to VB, C++,
C# and Java.



Marc Wilson 07-25-2003 03:53 PM

Re: Python and VS.Net
 
In comp.lang.python, "HN" <hn@nospam.net> (HN) wrote in
<ENVXDA58AA2A@envox.local.hr>::

|
|> Yes, I was aware of these, too. Despite Microsoft's claims about the
|.NET
|> platform being language-independent, it doesn't seem to be a simple task
|to
|> get Python going on it. So far, I think there are only VB.NET, C++, C#
|> and J#. No Python#, Perl# or Ruby#, as of yet...
|
|This is probably because .NET is more suitable for statically typed
|languages than for dynamic ones. However, many statically-typed
|languages have .NET implementations. For example, Eiffel, which
|is a very good language, in many aspects far superior to VB, C++,
|C# and Java.

Borland are said to be working on Delphi.NET

--
Marc Wilson

Cleopatra Consultants Limited - IT Consultants
2 The Grange, Cricklade Street, Old Town, Swindon SN1 3HG
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srijit@yahoo.com 07-28-2003 07:45 AM

Re: Python and VS.Net
 
Hello,
After going through various threads and messages, blogs and some local
discussions, I would like to share my impression. However, I do not
have any hands on experience on VS.NET.

1) Both Java and .NET are going to stay and keep competing with each
other for developers' mindshare.
2) At present Python 2.3 for Windows is based on VC6. This cannot
continue for ever. I consider absence of compatability of Python with
VC7/VS.NET as a major threat for Python's future.
3) Python and Java are already compatible with each other through
Jython. Python is also extremely compatible with Windows (without
..NET) thorough Mark Hammond's excellent library win32all.
4) Unfortunately, Microsoft's .NET does not appear to be friendly for
dynamic languages like Python. .NET framework seems to favour
statically typed languages. But I look forward to a solution.
5) Even now, it is not easy to convince management about Python's
adavantages in corporate world. It will be come more difficult, in
future, if Python.NET is not available.
6) Ruby users are also taking initiative to make Ruby work with .NET
framework. Refer http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...adata.dk#link1

I am interested to learn what core python team is thinking about
compatability of Python 2.x, 3.x with Windows/VC7/VS.NET.

Regards,
Srijit


"Matt Gerrans" <mgerrans@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>...
> "Trent Mick" wrote:
> > > If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that would

> be
> > > another story. That would be like Jython for .NET. I was hoping that

> was
> > > what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy was, but alas it was too

> good to
> > > be true: it is only (so far) a color-syntaxing Python editor that takes

> two
> > > or three minutes to load up.

> >
> > You are mixing up two difference ideas. ActiveState's VisualPython is a
> > plugin for VS.NET to provide all the IDE stuff (like editting,
> > debugging, interactive shell, help, intellisense, etc) for Python
> > programmers.

>
> Uh, isn't that pretty much what I said? I don't think I mixed up the
> ideas. I only said that what ActiveState's Visual Python was and what I
> was originally hoping it would be were not the same.
>
> > The idea of integrating the Python language somehow into the .NET
> > framework is independent of VS.NET-the-IDE, though I suppose one might
> > like some level of connection between the two. Mark Hammond, before and
> > while at ActiveState did do some exploratory work in this direction. But
> > that is all it has come to so far: exploration. So your "too good to be
> > true" does (currently) apply to a so called Python.NET. This code is
> > currently in PyWin32's CVS tree one SourceForge:
> > http://sf.net/projects/pywin32
> > There is also the independent Kobra project that I have not looked at.

>
> Yes, I was aware of these, too. Despite Microsoft's claims about the .NET
> platform being language-independent, it doesn't seem to be a simple task to
> get Python going on it. So far, I think there are only VB.NET, C++, C#
> and J#. No Python#, Perl# or Ruby#, as of yet...


Glauco 07-28-2003 09:47 AM

Re: Python and VS.Net
 
Good work . i hope in a fast, simple, pythonic solution for WS in .NET ..

I wrote a client library in python based on SOAPpy for use of WS in .NET .
Is very difficult for me understand how many solution and how it works
for this scope. The server i must use has 2 kind os Web Services ..

I understood that in .NET you can create 2 kind of client.

The SOAP-XML is something like an XML body into the SOAP message

and the other is SOAP-RPC , i think this is a sort of a full enveloping
of msg.


I've builded some client whith SOAP-XML and it works whith a little of
manipulation in some modules of package SOAPpy but now im'trying to
"simply understand" how to use SOAP-RPC Web Service and how to modify my
libs fot the scope.

Someone use this 2 types of .NET Web Services with Python ?

sorry for my engl.
Glauco



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