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Fuzzyman 07-11-2003 11:00 PM

The ASPN compiler
 
What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler) - is it a true
compiler for python ? - what does it output - binary or C++ for .NET
framework............ if the latter then it could be very cool as it
may work with the PocketPC 2003 SDK.... for producing binaries for
PDAs from python... cool...
(I'm sure my terminology is way out of line here... sorry)

Does it work yet ?

Fuzzyman
---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera

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Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?= 07-12-2003 12:21 AM

Re: The ASPN compiler
 
Fuzzyman wrote:
> What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler)


There was a proof-of-concept implementation of a Python compiler for the
..NET platform done by ActiveState and sponsored by Microsoft.

> - is it a true
> compiler for python ?


Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.

> - what does it output - binary or C++ for .NET
> framework............


Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.

> if the latter then it could be very cool as it
> may work with the PocketPC 2003 SDK.... for producing binaries for
> PDAs from python... cool...


Forget it. Instead what you probably want is a Python implementation for
Windows CE 3.0. There is one.

> (I'm sure my terminology is way out of line here... sorry)
>
> Does it work yet ?


Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.

RTFM. STFW. etc. :-P

-- Gerhard


Fuzzyman 07-12-2003 03:25 PM

Re: The ASPN compiler
 
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:21:33 +0200, Gerhard Häring <gh@ghaering.de>
wrote:

>Fuzzyman wrote:
>> What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler)

>
>There was a proof-of-concept implementation of a Python compiler for the
>.NET platform done by ActiveState and sponsored by Microsoft.
>
>> - is it a true
>> compiler for python ?

>
>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
>

Done that - its not entirely clear - any chance you could answer the
question......

>> - what does it output - binary or C++ for .NET
>> framework............

>
>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
>


Done that - its not entirely clear - any chance you could answer the
question......

>> if the latter then it could be very cool as it
>> may work with the PocketPC 2003 SDK.... for producing binaries for
>> PDAs from python... cool...

>
>Forget it. Instead what you probably want is a Python implementation for
>Windows CE 3.0. There is one.


Not for the SH3 processor... doesn't produce binaries.
>
>> (I'm sure my terminology is way out of line here... sorry)
>>
>> Does it work yet ?

>
>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
>
>RTFM. STFW. etc. :-P
>
>-- Gerhard


ATFQ

:-)

Fuzzyman

---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera

http://www.voidspace.org.uk
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?= 07-12-2003 03:55 PM

Re: The ASPN compiler
 
Fuzzyman wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:21:33 +0200, Gerhard Häring <gh@ghaering.de>
> wrote:
>
>>Fuzzyman wrote:
>>
>>>What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler)

>>
>>There was a proof-of-concept implementation of a Python compiler for the
>>.NET platform done by ActiveState and sponsored by Microsoft.
>>
>>>- is it a true
>>>compiler for python ?

>>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.

>
> Done that - its not entirely clear - any chance you could answer the
> question......


The resulting output can be executed by the .NET runtime and two-way
interoperability between Python and .NET is currenty possible according
to that paper.

>>>- what does it output - binary or C++ for .NET
>>>framework............

>>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.

>
> Done that - its not entirely clear - any chance you could answer the
> question......


MSIL.

>>>if the latter then it could be very cool as it
>>>may work with the PocketPC 2003 SDK.... for producing binaries for
>>>PDAs from python... cool...

>>
>>Forget it. Instead what you probably want is a Python implementation for
>>Windows CE 3.0. There is one.

>
> Not for the SH3 processor... doesn't produce binaries.


Then you could ask the maintainer to produce such binaries. Or download
the free WinCE SDK + Emulator + whatnot yourself and build binaries
yourself. You might even learn a little C that way ;-)

Or install Linux or NetBSD on that handheld instead :-)

-- Gerhard


Russ Salsbury 07-14-2003 10:18 PM

Re: The ASPN compiler
 
noah@noah.org (Noah) wrote in message news:<c9d82136.0307120941.63540143@posting.google. com>...
> Gerhard Häring <gh@ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list@python.org>...
> > Fuzzyman wrote:
> > > What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler)

> > Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
> > ...
> > -- Gerhard

>
> The short answer is that it looks like a dead project.
>
> Actually, you are better off going to Mark Hammond's .NET page here:
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/dotnet/


Well, folks, I actually went off and read the paper. In spite of the
declaration of success at the end of the paper, the project appears to
have been just an academic proof of principle exercise. The compiler
is too slow to be of practical use and not much of the much of the
runtime and modules were implemented. You should read it; it doesn't
look like it could have ever succeded.

The paper suggests that a way around the mismatch between the dynamic
typing of Python and the static typing of .NET would have been to
introduce advisory type declarations into Python. Think Guido would
buy that? It also suggested maybe type inferences could solve the
problem.

From this paper it's evident that this was not a class effort like
Jython. Was Active State suckered by some marketing ploy of
MicroSoft? To be fair maybe they all expected a follow-on project to
do a real implementation, but I bet it's all part of VB-forever.

I also noted there is a dead-in-the-water Perl.NET implementation.

-- Russ

John J. Lee 07-15-2003 12:51 AM

Re: The ASPN compiler
 
clpy.NOSPAM@russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury) writes:
[...]
> Well, folks, I actually went off and read the paper. In spite of the
> declaration of success at the end of the paper, the project appears to
> have been just an academic proof of principle exercise. The compiler
> is too slow to be of practical use and not much of the much of the

[...]

Since all they wanted to demonstrate was that "the .NET runtime and
Intermediate Language were capable of supporting the language", I
think somebody should have told Microsoft about this guy called
Turing. With great foresight <wink>, he proved that the .NET runtime
*is* capable of supporting Python, which should have saved Mark & Greg
all that hard work. <0.5 wink>


John


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