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Greg 11-04-2005 03:01 PM

Computer monitoring software
 
Greetings all. I was looking around on the newsgroups for info about
computer monitoring software. This seemed the best one to start with.

I'm a father of one teenaged daughter, and another teeneager-to-be (not
too soon, thank the Gods!) My wife and I can't be over her shoulder
all the time, but we want to know EVERYTHING that goes on on that
computer. Any suggestions for good computer monitoring software? I
prefer one that can monitor email, IMs, downloads (i.e. P2P), the
works. What are the pros and cons of each program?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Greg


David H. Lipman 11-04-2005 03:10 PM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
From: "Greg" <GreenManRN@aol.com>

| Greetings all. I was looking around on the newsgroups for info about
| computer monitoring software. This seemed the best one to start with.
|
| I'm a father of one teenaged daughter, and another teeneager-to-be (not
| too soon, thank the Gods!) My wife and I can't be over her shoulder
| all the time, but we want to know EVERYTHING that goes on on that
| computer. Any suggestions for good computer monitoring software? I
| prefer one that can monitor email, IMs, downloads (i.e. P2P), the
| works. What are the pros and cons of each program?
|
| Thanks for your suggestions.
|
| Greg

I think you are going in the wrong direction. Instead of letting them do what they want and
monitoring them you should be locking down the system and blocking what you don't want them
to be doing.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm



Greg 11-04-2005 03:23 PM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
Dave,
Good point, and don't think we haven't gone that route. We've used
parental controls, limited use of the computer, monitored use, removed
other web browsers that don't have such controls, etc... You and I
both know there's always a way around every obstacle. :) Kids will
find them. I did.

My main reason for wanting to monitor activity instead of block it is
then I'd be able to intervene if something really serious is going on.
For example, before the kids got wise to parental controls and how to
bypass them, I learned that one of her friends was self mutilating, and
another was being molested. Thankfully it wasn't my kid, but could
have been. If something like that is going on, I want every possible
avenue open to knowing about it.

Of course there's no substitute for open communication with kids, and
honesty.


nemo_outis 11-04-2005 03:26 PM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
"Greg" <GreenManRN@aol.com> wrote in news:1131117821.398441.149390
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

>
> Of course there's no substitute for open communication with kids, and
> honesty.



A good principle - and you have no trouble reconciling it with
surreptitious spying?

Regards,




Greg 11-04-2005 03:32 PM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.

We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.

If I would put such software on my next door neighbor's computer,
THAT's spying. I believe there's an important difference there.


Martin 11-04-2005 03:58 PM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
Greg wrote:
> Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
> monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
> computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
> they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
> seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.
>
> We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
> corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.


10 to 1 they are young males with WAAAAY too many rampaging hormones
flowing through their veins :)

Family Key Logger http://www.kmint21.com/familykeylogger/

Don't forget spyware finder tools will find it

nemo_outis 11-04-2005 07:12 PM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
Martin <martin_nospam@etiqa.co.uk> wrote in news:436b84a0$0$662
$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:

> Greg wrote:
>> Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
>> monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
>> computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
>> they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
>> seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.
>>
>> We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
>> corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.

>
> 10 to 1 they are young males with WAAAAY too many rampaging hormones
> flowing through their veins :)
>
> Family Key Logger http://www.kmint21.com/familykeylogger/
>
> Don't forget spyware finder tools will find it
>




Possibly. And, heaven forfend, they might even see some naked women or
even people ****ing.

Of course, it's not all that important that they will already have seen
100,000 or so people killed on TV and in the movies.

You can run a mini-police-state complete with pervasive surveillance and
call it a household if you wish. You may even think that announcing that
they have no personal sphere of privacy which you can't invade makes it OK.
And, while you may succeed in thwarting them seeing porn, you will have
taught them some very negative lessons about failure to trust, abuse of
trust, and misuse of power.

No, you will fail. If your children wish to end run you in your snooping I
have no doubt they can succeed.

Yes, you will fail - hell, you already have! But hopefully your children
won't! Hopefully, despite the terrible example you are setting for them,
they will show a greater sense of respect for themselves and others and
more self-control than you do.

Regards,




Martin 11-04-2005 10:54 PM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
nemo_outis wrote:
> Martin <martin_nospam@etiqa.co.uk> wrote in news:436b84a0$0$662
> $fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
>
>
>>Greg wrote:
>>
>>>Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
>>>monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
>>>computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
>>>they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
>>>seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.
>>>
>>>We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
>>>corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.

>>
>>10 to 1 they are young males with WAAAAY too many rampaging hormones
>>flowing through their veins :)
>>
>>Family Key Logger http://www.kmint21.com/familykeylogger/
>>
>>Don't forget spyware finder tools will find it
>>

>
>
>
>
> Possibly. And, heaven forfend, they might even see some naked women or
> even people ****ing.
>
> Of course, it's not all that important that they will already have seen
> 100,000 or so people killed on TV and in the movies.
>
> You can run a mini-police-state complete with pervasive surveillance and
> call it a household if you wish. You may even think that announcing that
> they have no personal sphere of privacy which you can't invade makes it OK.
> And, while you may succeed in thwarting them seeing porn, you will have
> taught them some very negative lessons about failure to trust, abuse of
> trust, and misuse of power.
>
> No, you will fail. If your children wish to end run you in your snooping I
> have no doubt they can succeed.
>
> Yes, you will fail - hell, you already have! But hopefully your children
> won't! Hopefully, despite the terrible example you are setting for them,
> they will show a greater sense of respect for themselves and others and
> more self-control than you do.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>

what the hell you having a go at me for? Geez, give someone a bit of
help and you get this kind of crap thrown at you. What the hell do YOU
know about me or my kids or anything else about me come to that.

nemo_outis 11-05-2005 12:46 AM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
Martin <martin_nospam@etiqa.co.uk> wrote in
news:436be62e$0$350$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk:


> what the hell you having a go at me for? Geez, give someone a bit of
> help and you get this kind of crap thrown at you. What the hell do YOU
> know about me or my kids or anything else about me come to that.




You came here asking how to spy on your children. You deserve to get both
barrels.

But what you get from me here now is nothing. You will reap the
whirlwind from your children - that is, assuming you fail in your quest
to crush their development by repeatedly substituting your will and
judgment for theirs.

It is very clear that the message you are sending your children as they
move towards adulthood is, "The person who should know you best in the
whole world doesn't trust you, thinks you have poor judgment, and wishes
to spy on you in order to control you." It is a message that, if they
have any spirit at all, they will take to heart.

Let me tell you the internet is the least of your worries. I absolutely
guarantee you that drugs are readily available in the school to which
your children go - wherever it is. I absolutely guarantee that your
daughter would be able to meet with that "bad boy" surreptitiously if she
chooses. I absolutely guarantee that she will be able to surf the net
from a friend's house, or make clandestine cellphone calls, if she
chooses.

Your job is to help her make the right choices, not spy on her. Your job
is to love her unconditionally, even when she screws up. Your job is to
loosen the reins so her judgment and internal strength grow, which will
come from her, not you, making decisions and yes, sometimes even making
bad decisions. Your job is to be the support team, the coach, and, yes,
the backup and reserves for when things go wrong or when she needs help.

Your children, like all adolescents, will be struggling to define
themselves, and they, like all adolescents, will do so, in part, in
opposition to their parents, by what is frequently mislabelled rebelling.
You are setting yourself up to exacerbate that rebellion (assuming you
don't succeed in suppressing it) and stunt their development. You are
setting yourself up to have your own lack of faith in them relected back
at you ten times over.

You, you fool, should radiate confidence in them, trust that they are up
the challenges they will face, not suspicion and distrust in their
developing personalities. You must do this despite your fears and
worries for them, no matter how strong. Actions speak louder than words.
And spying speaks very loudly indeed.

If you have a close relationship with your children you don't need to
spy. You will know who their friends are, you will know what your
childrens hopes and fears are, you will know what problems they are
facing, you will know when they are feeling joy or sorrow. You will know
these things because you interact with them daily, because you are
actively involved with their lives, and because you have faith in them
and their abilities and judgment - even when they make mistakes. They
will know they can come to you and you will support them and help them to
grow.

In short, your children need a father, not a spy.

Regards,







John Hyde 11-05-2005 01:37 AM

Re: Computer monitoring software
 
on 11/4/2005 11:12 AM nemo_outis said the following:
> Martin <martin_nospam@etiqa.co.uk> wrote in news:436b84a0$0$662
> $fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
>
>
>>Greg wrote:
>>
>>>Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
>>>monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
>>>computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
>>>they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
>>>seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.
>>>
>>>We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
>>>corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.

>>
>>10 to 1 they are young males with WAAAAY too many rampaging hormones
>>flowing through their veins :)
>>
>>Family Key Logger http://www.kmint21.com/familykeylogger/
>>
>>Don't forget spyware finder tools will find it
>>

>
>
>
>
> Possibly. And, heaven forfend, they might even see some naked women or
> even people ****ing.
>
> Of course, it's not all that important that they will already have seen
> 100,000 or so people killed on TV and in the movies.
>
> You can run a mini-police-state complete with pervasive surveillance and
> call it a household if you wish. You may even think that announcing that
> they have no personal sphere of privacy which you can't invade makes it OK.
> And, while you may succeed in thwarting them seeing porn, you will have
> taught them some very negative lessons about failure to trust, abuse of
> trust, and misuse of power.
>
> No, you will fail. If your children wish to end run you in your snooping I
> have no doubt they can succeed.
>
> Yes, you will fail - hell, you already have! But hopefully your children
> won't! Hopefully, despite the terrible example you are setting for them,
> they will show a greater sense of respect for themselves and others and
> more self-control than you do.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>

While I respect your argument, I don't think it is right for everyone.
Just because the OP asked about the ability to monitor his kids, does
not mean that this is the only conversation that is going on under his
roof.

WARNING: The following is quite long, but hopefully coherent. On topic
for this thread, but just barely for this NG.

5 years ago, when my daughter was 12, we had the same discussion in out
house. Mywife and I both expressed concerns like greg has stated as
well as the view the nemo has express. To say we were conflicted would
be an understatement.

We finally decided that it is our duty to protect and teach our
children. We felt that if a monitor was used like a "big brother"
device, then that would be bad. But we realized that we don't let her
lock us completely out of her room, we are free to enter, but we knock
first. Same way with her internet habits. Our explanation was this:
We have no interest in your emails, but as your parents it is our duty
to keep you safe. If we feel that something is becoming a problem for
you. We may look in your computer and see what you have been doing. Only
by knowing what you are doing can we help to teach you.

This policy was the kick off of a lot of very interesting discussions.
WARNING: Next paragraph is long and boring, from memory but a pretty
accurate recollection:

Some of them went like this: "Ohrgh! you guys are so strict!!" "Well,
what do you mean?" "Jennifer's* parents don't spy on her, they let her
do anything they want." "Really? She must like that." "Well Duh!" "Hey,
you remember Jennifer was telling you about that boy she wanted to sleep
with" "Yeah, she didn't do it. I talked her out of it, so far" "Did you
suggest she talk to her mom?" "Gosh, you are so clueless! I told you
Jennifer doesn't talk to her parents!" "Well, I know Jack and Jill
pretty well. I bet Jennifer could talk to them if it was important."
"Yeah, maybe, but she says they really dont care, they pretty much just
leave her alone" "Hmmm, that's too bad, I'm sure glad we can talk to
each other." "Yeah, I guess so" "Really? Even if were really strict?"
"Hey, I didn't say _that_. <with a grin>"

*(no real names)

Please understand, that children are not little adults. At puberty,
they begin to develop both physically and mentally. the mental
development begins in the lower brain; the parts responsible for
impulse. If Fruedian terms, the Id. We always called it the "lizard
brain." As the lizard brain develops, the wants become stronger in
tandem with physical maturation. this is nature's way of getting us to
procreate. The impulse control is not there yet and does not come
around for several years.

The other thing that is going on is that it is a scary world outside the
family cave, village, neighborhood, whatever. As kids develop, they
want their freedom, their privacy, respect, etc. But at some level,
they realize that it is a scary world out there. It is a growth process
and our kids want to be let free, AND, they want to be sheltered and
protected. The balance shifts as they get older.

If you read this far, you will realize that I have stated some
principles that come from a thought out parenting philosophy. You can't
just lock up your kids and call them safe. You can, and should,
restrict their activities to teach them the right way to grow (and talk
to them, and talk some more and when you're done, talk to them, rinse
and repeat). Frankly, I think Greg is on the right track. If he can
use a tool in an appropriate way, more power to him.

I also realize fully what some of you may believe we have cost our
daughter by raising her the way we have. All I can say to that is that
if you could meet her, you'd change your mind. She's bright, funny,
outgoing, smart, open, honest, hard working and well adjusted. And
that's not just with her peers, she is that way with adults of all ages
too.

Nuf Said (way too much actually, but there are a lot of ways to be a
"good" parent. Let's not scold Greg too much, I think.)

Regards,

John


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