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-   -   DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t292790-dslr-smaller-sensor-smaller-ttl-viewfinder-which-has-the-largest.html)

Geshu Iam 08-15-2004 01:51 AM

DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?
 
Just compared Kodak's 14n/n, Fujifilm S2, and Nikon D70. I didn't pay
attention to check it but it seems the larger the image sensor, the
larger the image in the TTL viewfinder.

Yes, of course, since they are retro-fit to the originally fixed size
image, and what shown in the DSLR is essentially the cropped-down.

Just curious, is this true for all DSLRs? Any DSLR has the dedicated
TTL viewfinder so that there is no need to suffer this cropped-down
TTL VF image? What about Olympus? Anything (other than Kodak-14n) has
the TTL feel like a real 35mm SLR?

[BnH] 08-15-2004 01:56 AM

Re: DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?
 
err .. you were looking at all F80 and F75 body which is Nikon prosumer
range body.

Have a look at D1 or D2 family.

=bob=

"Geshu Iam" <xuanjielih@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:12271960.0408141751.6af8e3bf@posting.google.c om...
> Just compared Kodak's 14n/n, Fujifilm S2, and Nikon D70. I didn't pay
> attention to check it but it seems the larger the image sensor, the
> larger the image in the TTL viewfinder.
>
> Yes, of course, since they are retro-fit to the originally fixed size
> image, and what shown in the DSLR is essentially the cropped-down.
>
> Just curious, is this true for all DSLRs? Any DSLR has the dedicated
> TTL viewfinder so that there is no need to suffer this cropped-down
> TTL VF image? What about Olympus? Anything (other than Kodak-14n) has
> the TTL feel like a real 35mm SLR?



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Roland Karlsson 08-15-2004 10:11 AM

Re: DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?
 
"[BnH]" <b18[at]ii[dot]net> wrote in news:411ec2c7$0$16342$5a62ac22@per-
qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:

> err .. you were looking at all F80 and F75 body which is Nikon prosumer
> range body.
>
> Have a look at D1 or D2 family.


Here is a list that I compiled earlier. It is sorted in
order of decreasing apperent view finder size (last column).
The Kodak cameras and the Canon 1Ds are typical for film
cameras. All other are smaller, some much smaller. The Sigma
are only 1/3 of the area.

Camera Sensor View.Magn. Scaling. Equiv. Magn. %Area
Kodak DCS 14n (Nikon F80) 36,0 0,75 1,00 0,750 100,0
Kodak SLR/n (Nikon F80) 36,0 0,75 1,00 0,750 100,0
Canon EOS 1Ds 36,0 0.70 1,00 0,700 87,1
Pentax *istD 23,5 0,95 1,53 0,620 68,4
Canon EOS 1D MK II 28,7 0,72 1,25 0,574 58,6
Nikon D2H 23,3 0,86 1,55 0,557 55,1
Canon EOS 10D 22,7 0,88 1,59 0,555 54,7
Canon EOS 300D 22,7 0,88 1,59 0,555 54,7
Nikon D1 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
Nikon D100 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
Nikon D1H 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
Nikon D1X 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
Nikon D70 23,7 0,75 1,52 0,494 43,3
Olympus E1 18,0 0,96 2,00 0,480 41,0
Fujifilm S2 (Nikon F80) 23,0 0,75 1,57 0,479 40,8
Fujifilm S3 (Nikon F80) 23,0 0,75 1,57 0,479 40,8
Sigma SD10 20,7 0,77 1,74 0,443 34,8
Sigma SD9 20,7 0,77 1,74 0,443 34,8

The columns are:
* Camera
* Sensor size (taken from datasheet)
* View magnification with 50 mm lens (taken from datasheet)
- For Fujifilm and Kodak I have assumed that the finder is
the same as in F80. I could not find any other info.
* Scaling/cropping relative to 35 mm full frame (computed)
* Equivalent magnification, taking scaling into account (computed)
* Percentage of apparent area relative to Kodak cameras.

If you find any faults in tha table - please tell me.


/Roland

Georgette Preddy 08-16-2004 11:53 AM

Re: DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?
 
Roland Karlsson <roland_dot_karlsson@bonetmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns95467C043C9F5klotjohan@130.133.1.4>...
> "[BnH]" <b18[at]ii[dot]net> wrote in news:411ec2c7$0$16342$5a62ac22@per-
> qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>
> > err .. you were looking at all F80 and F75 body which is Nikon prosumer
> > range body.
> >
> > Have a look at D1 or D2 family.

>
> Here is a list that I compiled earlier. It is sorted in
> order of decreasing apperent view finder size (last column).
> The Kodak cameras and the Canon 1Ds are typical for film
> cameras. All other are smaller, some much smaller. The Sigma
> are only 1/3 of the area.


That's interesting since Sigma uses the exact same viewfinder used on
their SA9 film camera, in the SD9 and SD10. Are you suggesting you
can only see 1/3rd of the picture in all of them?

The two Sigmas have by far the widest viewfinder of any cropping DSLR,
which is why they call it a sportsfinder instead of a viewfinder. A
sportsfinder is a huge advantage over all the other croppers, which
only have very tiny viewfinders.

> Camera Sensor View.Magn. Scaling. Equiv. Magn. %Area
> Kodak DCS 14n (Nikon F80) 36,0 0,75 1,00 0,750 100,0
> Kodak SLR/n (Nikon F80) 36,0 0,75 1,00 0,750 100,0
> Canon EOS 1Ds 36,0 0.70 1,00 0,700 87,1
> Pentax *istD 23,5 0,95 1,53 0,620 68,4
> Canon EOS 1D MK II 28,7 0,72 1,25 0,574 58,6
> Nikon D2H 23,3 0,86 1,55 0,557 55,1
> Canon EOS 10D 22,7 0,88 1,59 0,555 54,7
> Canon EOS 300D 22,7 0,88 1,59 0,555 54,7
> Nikon D1 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
> Nikon D100 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
> Nikon D1H 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
> Nikon D1X 23,7 0,80 1,52 0,527 49,3
> Nikon D70 23,7 0,75 1,52 0,494 43,3
> Olympus E1 18,0 0,96 2,00 0,480 41,0
> Fujifilm S2 (Nikon F80) 23,0 0,75 1,57 0,479 40,8
> Fujifilm S3 (Nikon F80) 23,0 0,75 1,57 0,479 40,8
> Sigma SD10 20,7 0,77 1,74 0,443 34,8
> Sigma SD9 20,7 0,77 1,74 0,443 34,8
>
> The columns are:
> * Camera
> * Sensor size (taken from datasheet)
> * View magnification with 50 mm lens (taken from datasheet)
> - For Fujifilm and Kodak I have assumed that the finder is
> the same as in F80. I could not find any other info.
> * Scaling/cropping relative to 35 mm full frame (computed)
> * Equivalent magnification, taking scaling into account (computed)
> * Percentage of apparent area relative to Kodak cameras.
>
> If you find any faults in tha table - please tell me.
>
>
> /Roland


Roland Karlsson 08-16-2004 07:16 PM

Re: DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?
 
georgette_preddy@yahoo.com (Georgette Preddy) wrote in
news:1067e702.0408160353.1227ad64@posting.google.c om:

> That's interesting since Sigma uses the exact same viewfinder used on
> their SA9 film camera, in the SD9 and SD10. Are you suggesting you
> can only see 1/3rd of the picture in all of them?


Everyone else but you would understand that the size in the
table is the size of the sensor.

> The two Sigmas have by far the widest viewfinder of any cropping DSLR,
> which is why they call it a sportsfinder instead of a viewfinder. A
> sportsfinder is a huge advantage over all the other croppers, which
> only have very tiny viewfinders.


The only interesting part is that one that is actually cought
by the sensor. The sports finder is a nice touch though now when
Sigma has choosen not to modify the finder prism.


/Roland

Einton Newstein 08-17-2004 12:41 AM

Re: DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?
 
georgette_preddy@yahoo.com (Georgette Preddy) wrote in message news:<1067e702.0408160353.1227ad64@posting.google. com>...
>
> That's interesting since Sigma uses the exact same viewfinder used on
> their SA9 film camera, in the SD9 and SD10. Are you suggesting you
> can only see 1/3rd of the picture in all of them?
>
> The two Sigmas have by far the widest viewfinder of any cropping DSLR,
> which is why they call it a sportsfinder instead of a viewfinder. A
> sportsfinder is a huge advantage over all the other croppers, which
> only have very tiny viewfinders.
>


Could you post exactly how wide is this by far the widest viewfinder?

If it's exactly the same viewfinder used in Sigma's film camera, why
rename it to "sportsfinder"? It smells fishy! (if not a indication of
something inferior.)

Darrell Larose 08-17-2004 01:41 PM

Re: DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?
 

"Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1067e702.0408160353.1227ad64@posting.google.c om...
>
> That's interesting since Sigma uses the exact same viewfinder used on
> their SA9 film camera, in the SD9 and SD10. Are you suggesting you
> can only see 1/3rd of the picture in all of them?
>

Other than saving production costs. What advantage is there in seeing more
than is recorded? To show more than 100% of what is imaged is
well....STUPID! But I expect that of Mattel, ooops I meant Sigma.




Roland Karlsson 08-17-2004 06:52 PM

Re: DSLR, Smaller Sensor, Smaller TTL Viewfinder? Which has the largest?
 
"Darrell Larose" <no@spam.com> wrote in
news:5WnUc.101$uc.25@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rog ers.com:

> Other than saving production costs. What advantage is there in seeing
> more than is recorded? To show more than 100% of what is imaged is
> well....STUPID! But I expect that of Mattel, ooops I meant Sigma.
>


No - it is not stupid. Many optical view finder cameras
show more than is captured. It is convenient. In the case
of the Sigma though, 75 % is outside the captured area.
that would be a somewhat strange proportion to make by
design. But now it is just that the original 35 mm film
camera is not modified. So ... we get what we get ...
a very small view of the captured image. Reminds me of
a russian SLR I saw when I was young - it also had a very
small view - and that sucked big time.

But it is not only Sigma - even Fuji, Olympus and the oldie
Nikon D70 have very small views.


/Roland


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