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J 12-19-2005 06:02 PM

HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 
When will, say Star Trek, DVD sets be re-released in high definition
versions? I'm assuming it will happen, except maybe for TNG, but especially
for ENT.

For old non-film stuff, effects in TNG for example, what was the original
storage medium? Was it rendered and/or stored in anything more than NTSC
resolution.



Biz 12-19-2005 07:20 PM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 

"J" <speechee2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4BCpf.810$%N1.148943@news20.bellglobal.com...
> When will, say Star Trek, DVD sets be re-released in high definition
> versions? I'm assuming it will happen, except maybe for TNG, but

especially
> for ENT.
>
> For old non-film stuff, effects in TNG for example, what was the original
> storage medium? Was it rendered and/or stored in anything more than NTSC
> resolution.
>
>

More importantly, when are the players going to be released? There are
still no firm realese dates for players...which is definitely affecting the
software releases....



Jeff Rife 12-19-2005 10:10 PM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 
J (speechee2@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.video.dvd:
> For old non-film stuff, effects in TNG for example, what was the original
> storage medium? Was it rendered and/or stored in anything more than NTSC
> resolution.


AFAIK, *all* Star Trek series except "Enterprise" had SD FX and were
finished to standard 480i videotape. There are no original elements
available (or not enough to matter) for either the live action or the FX.

It's interesting that shows from the 50s and 60s that were shot on film
and still have the original film intact end up looking far better on both
DVD and HD than do most shows from the 70s to the early 90s.

--
Jeff Rife | "I have a question that could affect our entire
| relationship...did you kill Coach Mattay?"
| "No!"
| "But, you did dress him up like a woman...?"
| "Yeah."
| "Just checking."
| -- Alex Lambert and Brian Hackett, "Wings"

afiggatt 12-19-2005 10:20 PM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 
J wrote:
> When will, say Star Trek, DVD sets be re-released in high definition
> versions? I'm assuming it will happen, except maybe for TNG, but especially
> for ENT.
>
> For old non-film stuff, effects in TNG for example, what was the original
> storage medium? Was it rendered and/or stored in anything more than NTSC
> resolution.


Depends on the show, what technology they used for special effects and
whether the show was edited on film or video. TV shows from the 1960s
and 70s were mostly shot & edited on 35 mm film. These could be redone
in HD if good quality 35mm masters still exist. See Hogans Heroes and
Charlie's Angels on HDNet for example.

But by the 80s & 90s, a lot of shows were still shot on 35mm (and
still are), but the editing and special effects stuff was done on video.
TO create an HD version, they might have to go back to the original 35mm
film and re-edit it from the 35 mm originals. Expensive to do this. If
the special effects were done on SD video - as I gather TNG was - then
they would have to redo the special effects in HD if they want it to
look good. Even more expensive and unlikely to be done anytime soon
except maybe for the most popular shows.

Nothing to stop them from upconverting some of older shows from video
or a mix of 35 mm & upconverted SD special effects shots and selling
them as HD versions cropped to 16:9. I bet some of the studios will do
just that.

Alan F

Joshua Zyber 12-19-2005 11:36 PM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 
"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1e10f9bf3e6d6b0e98a22a@news.nabs.net...
> AFAIK, *all* Star Trek series except "Enterprise" had SD FX and were
> finished to standard 480i videotape.


Except for the original 1960s series, which had optically composited
special effects full post-produced on film.

I believe even Enterprise's CGI was rendered at standard-definition and
upconverted for the HD broadcast.



J 12-20-2005 03:15 AM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 

"Joshua Zyber" <jzyber@mind-NOSPAM-spring.com> wrote in message
news:EtHpf.7142$3Z.6683@newsread1.news.atl.earthli nk.net...
> "Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1e10f9bf3e6d6b0e98a22a@news.nabs.net...
>> AFAIK, *all* Star Trek series except "Enterprise" had SD FX and were
>> finished to standard 480i videotape.

>
> Except for the original 1960s series, which had optically composited
> special effects full post-produced on film.
>
> I believe even Enterprise's CGI was rendered at standard-definition and
> upconverted for the HD broadcast.


Seems to me somewhat shortsighted, esp. in the case of Enterprise. Second,
why would you throw away the original film? They only had to keep the 40
min. that ended up in the show. Third, even in TNG era they knew about HD
so they could've done the fx in hd & maybe transferred that to film or
whatever. But I guess Q4 profits are all that matter...



J 12-20-2005 03:28 AM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 

"afiggatt" <afiggatt@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:mtSdnWnJWe_XrzrenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>J wrote:
>> When will, say Star Trek, DVD sets be re-released in high definition
>> versions? I'm assuming it will happen, except maybe for TNG, but
>> especially for ENT.
>>
>> For old non-film stuff, effects in TNG for example, what was the original
>> storage medium? Was it rendered and/or stored in anything more than NTSC
>> resolution.

>
> Depends on the show, what technology they used for special effects and
> whether the show was edited on film or video. TV shows from the 1960s and
> 70s were mostly shot & edited on 35 mm film. These could be redone in HD
> if good quality 35mm masters still exist. See Hogans Heroes and Charlie's
> Angels on HDNet for example.
>
> But by the 80s & 90s, a lot of shows were still shot on 35mm (and still
> are), but the editing and special effects stuff was done on video. TO
> create an HD version, they might have to go back to the original 35mm film
> and re-edit it from the 35 mm originals. Expensive to do this. If the
> special effects were done on SD video - as I gather TNG was - then they
> would have to redo the special effects in HD if they want it to look good.
> Even more expensive and unlikely to be done anytime soon except maybe for
> the most popular shows.


Thanks for replying. As a slight aside, TNG at least season 5, has this
issue with the fx: they look really good and contrasty but the live action
is washed out and soft. Probly indicates that they did throw away the film.
Not sure tho since I haven't seen the other seasons & I think they're
better.



Jeff Rife 12-20-2005 04:32 AM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 
Joshua Zyber (jzyber@mind-NOSPAM-spring.com) wrote in alt.video.dvd:
> "Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1e10f9bf3e6d6b0e98a22a@news.nabs.net...
> > AFAIK, *all* Star Trek series except "Enterprise" had SD FX and were
> > finished to standard 480i videotape.

>
> Except for the original 1960s series, which had optically composited
> special effects full post-produced on film.


Seriously? I thought the finals were on video due to cost. It's nice
to know it wasn't.

> I believe even Enterprise's CGI was rendered at standard-definition and
> upconverted for the HD broadcast.


I've heard both ways, so I don't know.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/MotherG...ewaySource.gif

Jeff Rife 12-20-2005 04:42 AM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 
J (speechee2@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.video.dvd:
> Seems to me somewhat shortsighted, esp. in the case of Enterprise. Second,
> why would you throw away the original film? They only had to keep the 40
> min. that ended up in the show.


For "Enterprise", it's likely that they tossed the film since they stored
the final on HD digital tape. For TNG, DS9 and Voyager, the film didn't
have any of the FX, so keeping it buys you very little, since to redo the
FX for a DVD (or HD-DVD) would make a season set about 10x more expensive
than the outrageous prices Paramount already charges.

> Third, even in TNG era they knew about HD


They really didn't. TNG started in 1987, and even big-time CGI in movies
like T2 (1991) and "Jurassic Park" (1993) weren't rendered at full HD
resolutions. "2K" rendering (2048x1365 for the full 35mm frame) didn't
really hit until 2000 or so. Before that, something on the order of
1500x1000 or so would have been the upper limit, but even that was only
available to big-budget movies.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Zits/CheckTheGigabytes.gif

Jeff Rife 12-20-2005 04:45 AM

Re: HD/BR DVD Re-releases
 
afiggatt (afiggatt@adelphia.net) wrote in alt.video.dvd:
> But by the 80s & 90s, a lot of shows were still shot on 35mm (and
> still are), but the editing and special effects stuff was done on video.
> TO create an HD version, they might have to go back to the original 35mm
> film and re-edit it from the 35 mm originals. Expensive to do this.


One amazing exception is "Cheers", where the DVDs are sourced from HD
telecines of the original film re-edited to as closely match the final tape
episode as they could manage.

Yes, that's incredibly expensive, but it hasn't show up in the DVD pricing,
thank goodness.

I know HDNet has a deal with Paramount, and I'm waiting for "Cheers" to show
up there.

--
Jeff Rife | copy protection: n. A class of methods for
| preventing incompetent pirates from stealing
| software and legitimate customers from using it.
| Considered silly.
| -- Jargon File version 4.4.6


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