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PBS 12-10-2003 10:07 PM

CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
Hello:

My son does quite a bit of snow camping, skiing and other cold temperature
activities. I notice that the Operating temperature specification for most
CompactFlash cards is typically about 0-60 degrees C.

Does anyone know of CompactFlash cards with an extended lower temperature
range?

Similarly, none of the specs I've found even mention altitude. Is it safe
to assume that all/most are good up to 14,000 feet?

Thanks,
Paul



Allodoxaphobia 12-10-2003 10:37 PM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:07:12 -0700, PBS hath writ:
> Hello:
>
> My son does quite a bit of snow camping, skiing and other cold temperature
> activities. I notice that the Operating temperature specification for most
> CompactFlash cards is typically about 0-60 degrees C.


I have to assume this is a camera-focused query.
I think you'll find that other "things" in the camera will
fall over long before cold and altitude affect a CF card.
(One such "thing" would be the focusing motor and lens
mechanics.)

In particular, it is Not A Good Thing to let an LCD display
get extremely cold. There are LCD displays that can get
cold without damage -- witness automobile displays (dash,
radio,...) that could reach -40d or more. But, I think the
automakers have thought that through. It's probably not
the case with most digital cameras.

Jonesy
--
| Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | OS/2
| Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | linux __
| 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK

Ron Hunter 12-10-2003 10:48 PM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
PBS wrote:

> Hello:
>
> My son does quite a bit of snow camping, skiing and other cold temperature
> activities. I notice that the Operating temperature specification for most
> CompactFlash cards is typically about 0-60 degrees C.
>
> Does anyone know of CompactFlash cards with an extended lower temperature
> range?
>
> Similarly, none of the specs I've found even mention altitude. Is it safe
> to assume that all/most are good up to 14,000 feet?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>


I rather expect that a CF card would operate at any temperature you
could stand without danger to yourself, and altitude should be no problem.

Paul 12-11-2003 12:29 PM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
PBS wrote:
> Hello:
>
> My son does quite a bit of snow camping, skiing and other cold temperature
> activities. I notice that the Operating temperature specification for most
> CompactFlash cards is typically about 0-60 degrees C.
>
> Does anyone know of CompactFlash cards with an extended lower temperature
> range?
>
> Similarly, none of the specs I've found even mention altitude. Is it safe
> to assume that all/most are good up to 14,000 feet?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>


Extract from:
http://www.compactflash.org/faqs/faq...haracteristics

What are the characteristics of CF cards?

Capacities?

CF cards are available in capacities from 8MB to 3GB.

While many CF applications can operate with low capacity CF cards,
higher capacity cards are increasingly used as digital camera resolution
rises.

Dual Voltage Support?

CompactFlash cards support both 3.3V and 5V operation and can be
interchanged between 3.3V and 5V systems. This means that any CF card
can operate at either voltage. Other small form factor flash cards may
be available to operate at 3.3V or 5V, but any single card can operate
at only one of the voltages

The Connector?

The connector used with CompactFlash is similar to the PCMCIA Card
connector, but with 50 pins. Years of field experience in portable
devices have proven the reliability and durability of this connector in
applications where frequent insertions/ejections of the card are
required. Other small form factor flash cards use connector technology
that is not reliable or durable.

Cost?

CompactFlash provides the lowest cost flash storage solution for
capacities of 32MB and above. With the built-in controller, a wide
variety of low cost flash technologies can be used. The built-in
controller lowers costs further by allowing defective cells to be mapped
out, thus increasing flash chip yields and by reducing costs in the host
device.

Temperature?

CompactFlash cards are able to withstand extremely rapid increases or
decreases in temperature. Industrial version CompactFlash cards are
offered with an extended operating temperature range of -45 C to +85 C.

Shock?

CompactFlash cards have an operating shock rating of 2,000 Gs, which is
equivalent to a 10-foot drop. With typical usage, a CompactFlash card
can be used for more than 100 years with no loss or deterioration of data.

Power?

Typically consuming less than five percent of the power than that
required to operate 1.8" and 2.5" disk drives, CF cards run at 3.3V or
5V with a single power supply. This makes them ideal for a range of
current and next-generation, small-form factor consumer applications.

Operating System Support?

Numerous platforms and operation systems support CompactFlash and the
PCMCIA-ATA standard, including DOS, Windows 3.x, Windows 95, , Windows
98, Windows CE, Windows 2000, Windows ME, Windows XP, OS/2, Apple System
7, 8, 9 & OS X, Linux and most types of UNIX.

Data Reliability?

CompactFlash data is protected by built-in dynamic defect management and
error correction technologies.



The CFA is a licensee of the CompactFlash® trademark which is licensed
royalty-free to CFA members.

The CFA(logo) and CF(logo) are trademarks of the CFA and are licensed
royalty free to CFA members.

This page last updated July 6, 2003


Shaun Lowe 12-11-2003 02:26 PM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
I've done a fair amount of shooting with CF cards
in -20C temperatures for extended periods of time.
I had no problems with the cards, the camera however
moved a little slower than normal & the Nimh batteries
certainly don't last as long under those conditions.

Regards,

Shaun Lowe
http://www.shaunlowe.com

> My son does quite a bit of snow camping, skiing and other cold temperature
> activities. I notice that the Operating temperature specification for

most
> CompactFlash cards is typically about 0-60 degrees C.
>
> Does anyone know of CompactFlash cards with an extended lower temperature
> range?
>
> Similarly, none of the specs I've found even mention altitude. Is it safe
> to assume that all/most are good up to 14,000 feet?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul





Harvey 12-12-2003 06:04 AM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
Toshiba and Sandisk have announced cards that go to -40 degrees centigrade
(-40 F) for industrial applications. A Google search on "compactflash
temperature range" will get you there, including popular camera review
sites. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0303/03...tremecards.asp
However, I would be very much surprised if the current generation cards
would not go lower than 0 degrees. Battery power, display sluggishness, and
motor operation are much more likely to limit the temperature range.

Altitude will not be a factor, from below sea level to 30,000 feet or more.

"PBS" <pbs@allwave.com> wrote in message
news:0MMBb.49$%N3.50738@news.uswest.net...
> Hello:
>
> My son does quite a bit of snow camping, skiing and other cold temperature
> activities. I notice that the Operating temperature specification for

most
> CompactFlash cards is typically about 0-60 degrees C.
>
> Does anyone know of CompactFlash cards with an extended lower temperature
> range?
>
> Similarly, none of the specs I've found even mention altitude. Is it safe
> to assume that all/most are good up to 14,000 feet?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>




Digitalis 12-14-2003 04:43 AM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:29:53 +1100, Paul wrote:

>> My son does quite a bit of snow camping, skiing and other cold temperature
>> activities. I notice that the Operating temperature specification for most
>> CompactFlash cards is typically about 0-60 degrees C.
>>
>> Does anyone know of CompactFlash cards with an extended lower temperature
>> range?


I once asked an electronics specialist (he designed circuit boards,
etc.) why so much electronics is rated only to 0 degrees C. His answer
was that the manufacturer probably just did not bother to certify it for
lower temperature- it was an arbitrary number. Nothing special about it
at all. Keep in mind that tolerances do change somewhat with
temperature, but silicon is not water it *won't* freeze at 0 degrees C!

In fact, electronics rated at 0 degrees C might operate fine at lower
temperatures. Personally, I've operated cameras and other electronic
devices below 0 degrees C with no real issues, just like someone else
here.


>> Similarly, none of the specs I've found even mention altitude. Is it safe
>> to assume that all/most are good up to 14,000 feet?


Electronics is sensitive to altitude since when? Any examples? Thanks.




Robertwgross 12-14-2003 04:50 AM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
Digitalis wrote:
>Electronics is sensitive to altitude since when? Any examples?


Take a big sealed capacitor up to high elevation. Its seal will blow if you
take it high enough. That is why certain types of components are rated only up
to 10,000 feet or 15,000 feet. Also, the thermal-convection properties of
components get all screwed up when the air pressure gets too low. However, I
would not expect a CF card to be affected very easily since it is mostly a
semiconductor device.

---Bob Gross---

Ron Hunter 12-14-2003 09:20 AM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
Digitalis wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:29:53 +1100, Paul wrote:
>
>
>>>My son does quite a bit of snow camping, skiing and other cold temperature
>>>activities. I notice that the Operating temperature specification for most
>>>CompactFlash cards is typically about 0-60 degrees C.
>>>
>>>Does anyone know of CompactFlash cards with an extended lower temperature
>>>range?

>
>
> I once asked an electronics specialist (he designed circuit boards,
> etc.) why so much electronics is rated only to 0 degrees C. His answer
> was that the manufacturer probably just did not bother to certify it for
> lower temperature- it was an arbitrary number. Nothing special about it
> at all. Keep in mind that tolerances do change somewhat with
> temperature, but silicon is not water it *won't* freeze at 0 degrees C!
>
> In fact, electronics rated at 0 degrees C might operate fine at lower
> temperatures. Personally, I've operated cameras and other electronic
> devices below 0 degrees C with no real issues, just like someone else
> here.
>
>
>
>>>Similarly, none of the specs I've found even mention altitude. Is it safe
>>>to assume that all/most are good up to 14,000 feet?

>
>
> Electronics is sensitive to altitude since when? Any examples? Thanks.
>
>
>

Generally electronic devices work BETTER at lower temperatures, and
altitude should have no effect on them.

Ron Hunter 12-14-2003 09:21 AM

Re: CompactFlash Cards; Temperature and Altitude limits?
 
Robertwgross wrote:

> Digitalis wrote:
>
>>Electronics is sensitive to altitude since when? Any examples?

>
>
> Take a big sealed capacitor up to high elevation. Its seal will blow if you
> take it high enough. That is why certain types of components are rated only up
> to 10,000 feet or 15,000 feet. Also, the thermal-convection properties of
> components get all screwed up when the air pressure gets too low. However, I
> would not expect a CF card to be affected very easily since it is mostly a
> semiconductor device.
>
> ---Bob Gross---


Not only is it a semiconductor device, but it is completely enclosed in
a resin. I can't see any logical reason why it wouldn't work in vacuum.
Anyone want to try an experiment?


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