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-   -   Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t234164-can-vonage-et-al-be-used-from-foreign-countries.html)

Ramon F Herrera 07-03-2005 09:57 PM

Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
I was told something that I find hard to believe:
Supposedly Vonage and the other VoIP telcos perform a traceroute and if
they determine that the SIP phone's IP address is outside the US (and
that's VERY hard to determine), then the service is not provided.

Any truth to that?

-Ramon


Enzo Michelangeli 07-03-2005 11:14 PM

Re: Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> I was told something that I find hard to believe:
> Supposedly Vonage and the other VoIP telcos perform a traceroute and if
> they determine that the SIP phone's IP address is outside the US (and
> that's VERY hard to determine), then the service is not provided.
>
> Any truth to that?


Determining the geografic location of an IP address is not that hard,
unless special precautions (VPN, proxying etc.) are taken: there are
several methods providing reasonable guesses. For example,
http://www.hostip.info/api/rough.html?ip=24.128.127.111 locates you at
Somerville, MA, whereas http://www.bbox.ch/default.asp?m=15 traces you
at Mt Laurel, NJ (which is the place of your ISP, Comcast Cable
Communications LLC).

The question is: why should Vonage decline to serve a new customer,
provided that the bills get paid? In no case would they have to bear a
bigger cost for non-US customers, given the way the Internet works.

Enzo


Georg Schwarz 07-03-2005 11:29 PM

Re: Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> wrote:

> I was told something that I find hard to believe:
> Supposedly Vonage and the other VoIP telcos perform a traceroute and if
> they determine that the SIP phone's IP address is outside the US (and
> that's VERY hard to determine), then the service is not provided.
>
> Any truth to that?


they would not use traceroute to do that; there are other means of
making an educated guess to the country of origin of an IP address.
This said, I remember Vonage explicitly mentioning on their web pages
the option of using their phone service while travelling outside the US.
They just mentioned that they would not take subscribers with non-US
postal addresses, i.e. did not maket their service outside the US.
I do not know whether this is still on their web pages. In any case I
think whar you heard is not true.

--
Georg Schwarz http://home.pages.de/~schwarz/
georg.schwarz@freenet.de +49 178 8545053

Phil Thompson 07-04-2005 08:50 AM

Re: Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
On 3 Jul 2005 16:14:05 -0700, "Enzo Michelangeli"
<nospam@em.no-ip.com> wrote:

>The question is: why should Vonage decline to serve a new customer,
>provided that the bills get paid?


taxation and regulatory issues perhaps. If for example they were
required to provide a 911 service with some sort of location data, or
if a jurisdiction banned VoIP or applied a tax or USO fee - I could
see why they might not want the hassle of subscribers in Nepal or
wherever.

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !

Enzo Michelangeli 07-05-2005 01:55 AM

Re: Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
Phil Thompson wrote:
> On 3 Jul 2005 16:14:05 -0700, "Enzo Michelangeli"
> <nospam@em.no-ip.com> wrote:
>
> >The question is: why should Vonage decline to serve a new customer,
> >provided that the bills get paid?

>
> taxation and regulatory issues perhaps. If for example they were
> required to provide a 911 service with some sort of location data, or
> if a jurisdiction banned VoIP or applied a tax or USO fee - I could
> see why they might not want the hassle of subscribers in Nepal or
> wherever.


This is true, but I seriously doubt that US regulations could apply to
subscribers outside the US territory. This both if we accept a "benign"
view of regulation (to protect own citizens from abuse -- hardly
applicable to citizens in other jurisdictions) and a "realistic" one in
the spirit of the Nobel laureate Robert Lucas (who once said he'd never
seen a regulator who actually gives a damn about consumers). I
personally suspect that mandatory 911 services etc. are just expedients
to protect the incumbents (conventional telcos), so why should a US
regulator bother and do anything to prevent a US company from competing
with a foreign telco?

Enzo

P.S. This case of less-than-honest motives is quite enlightening:
http://www.teletruth.org/USF.html


Phil Thompson 07-05-2005 07:44 AM

Re: Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
On 4 Jul 2005 18:55:57 -0700, "Enzo Michelangeli"
<nospam@em.no-ip.com> wrote:

>so why should a US
>regulator bother and do anything to prevent a US company from competing
>with a foreign telco?


no reason, however requiring them to produce 911 location data for all
theri subscribers could be an issue if, for example, a European
subscriber declined to provide it.

Also Vonage charge differently in different markets, so they don't
want to compete with themselves for example in the UK.

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !

Miguel Cruz 07-05-2005 12:46 PM

Re: Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> wrote:
> I was told something that I find hard to believe:
> Supposedly Vonage and the other VoIP telcos perform a traceroute and if
> they determine that the SIP phone's IP address is outside the US (and
> that's VERY hard to determine), then the service is not provided.
>
> Any truth to that?


No, of course not.

1) A traceroute? They'd look at the AS number.

2) They specifically say in their support pages that you can take it with
you when you travel overseas.

3) I've done it.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Georg Schwarz 07-09-2005 03:15 PM

Re: Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
Miguel Cruz <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote:

> 1) A traceroute? They'd look at the AS number.


which is not 100% accurate either, BTW (but admittingly worth a good
guess)

--
Georg Schwarz http://home.pages.de/~schwarz/
georg.schwarz@freenet.de +49 178 8545053

Miguel Cruz 07-09-2005 03:17 PM

Re: Can Vonage et al. be used FROM foreign countries?
 
Georg Schwarz <georg.schwarz@freenet.de> wrote:
> Miguel Cruz <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote:
>> 1) A traceroute? They'd look at the AS number.

>
> which is not 100% accurate either, BTW (but admittingly worth a good
> guess)


Right, the point is that it's much faster.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan


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