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30 gig drive only 25 after format??
my original question was: why did you advertise a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one with only 25 gig. here is his response. is he on the level?? i don't see formatting taking up 5 gig. perhaps i am wrong. please. i need your responses. be as concise as possible. thanks in advance. Dear Dell Customer, Dell's e-mail software interprets your message as a request for information about a discrepancy in reported hard drive size. This response document offers information about that issue. Binary vs. Decimal Numbering Systems ============================= Manufacturers and marketers of computer hard drives report the raw storage capacity of the drives before they are formatted and in decimal numbers. A decimal megabyte is 1,000,000 bytes. Windows, however, reports the capacity of the hard drive after formatting and in binary numbers. A binary megabyte is 1,073,741,824 bytes. Clearly, there are more decimal megabytes in an unformatted drive then binary megabytes in a formatted one. The result is that the same drive may be described as having a capacity of 80 MB or about 75 MB depending on which numbering system is used and whether the capacity is calculated before or after low-level and high-level formatting. The Effect of Cluster Size =============================== Other factors also reduce the available capacity of a formatted hard drive. Cluster size is one factor. A cluster is the smallest storage unit available on a drive. In general, the larger the drive the larger the cluster size. This means that a small text file of 100 bytes will be stored in a very large cluster of 32,000 or 64,000 bytes, and nothing else can be stored that cluster. Most hard drive formatting results in significant amounts of unusable storage capacity. NTFS clusters are smaller than FAT32 clusters. You can use smaller clusters if you divide a large physical drive into several smaller logical drives. Most hard drive utilities that increase available space do so by compressing files and taking advantage of empty clusters space. Dell Technical Support does not recommend using compression utilities because they are all somewhat unsafe for your data. Low-level Format Reserve Sectors ============================= Reserve sectors are another factor. It is impossible to manufacture millions of perfectly flawless high-capacity drive platters. All platters have some flaws. Manufacturers reserve a certain amount of raw hard drive space to swap for damaged sectors that are locked out during factory low-level formatting, and the size of this reserved space is proprietary information. This means that a drive labeled "80 GB" is only that large in decimal numbers, before reserve sectors are taken, before low-level formatting, and before high-level formatting. Very Large Drive Size Discrepancies ============================= If your 80 GB drive has only 32 GB of available storage, you are dealing with an operating system and file system limit, not a physical limit. All current Dell computers are shipped with the NTFS file system and either Windows XP or Windows 2000. It is easy to change the file system to FAT32 in Windows XP. Some customers MUST change to FAT32 so that an important legacy program will run under Windows XP. However the largest FAT32 partition that Windows XP can recognize is 32 GB. This limit is part of the design of Windows XP, and Microsoft has no plans to change it. If you are adding a hard drive larger than 137 GB you may need a third-party controller card or overlay software to allow you to access the full capacity of the drive. To learn more about this limit, enter the words "138 GB limit" in any major search site. |
Re: 30 gig drive only 25 after format??
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote:
> > my original question was: why did you advertise > a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one > with only 25 gig. Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB formatted! I have an 80 GB External HDD. Unformatted. When I format it, it becomes only 72 GB. I was flummoxed by this at one stage as well. -- Registered Linux User no 240308 Fedora Core 4, Pan, Thunderbird and Firefox gordonATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk to email me remove the obvious! |
Re: 30 gig drive only 25 after format??
"SirReal" <nature@its.best.net> wrote in message
news:eCfwe.5577$gm6.4082@trnddc05... > > my original question was: why did you advertise > a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one > with only 25 gig. here is his response. is he on > the level?? i don't see formatting taking up 5 gig. > perhaps i am wrong. please. i need your responses. > be as concise as possible. thanks in advance. Computers use binary (i.e., some power of 2). 2^30 is a gigabyte. That's 1,073,741,824 bytes. Divide 30GB decimal by 1073741824 and you get 27.9GB binary based. Out of that 27.9GB of space, some gets used up with the master file table (MFT) and journaling. If you are using NTFS, 12.5% of the available space gets *reserved* (not consumed) for the MFT (see http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...c_fil_xhpo.asp) so you are looking at another 3.6GB being reserved for the MFT. You also have paging space for virtual memory using up the hard drive space (I don't know where any of the numbers you quoted came from so they may or may not include the pagefile space, which is also *reserved* and NOT permanently consumed). |
Re: 30 gig drive only 25 after format??
Gordon wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote: >> my original question was: why did you advertise >> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one >> with only 25 gig. > Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB > formatted! There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment. -- Blinky Linux Registered User 297263 Killing all Usenet posts from Google Groups Info: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html *ALSO contains links for access to the NON-BETA GG archive interface* |
Re: 30 gig drive only 25 after format??
On 28 Jun 2005 18:10:12 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote: >Gordon wrote: >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote: > > >>> my original question was: why did you advertise >>> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one >>> with only 25 gig. > >> Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB >> formatted! > >There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get >something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but >I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment. DMF 1.68 and 1.72 etc, this will let you do it WinImage from www.winimage.com Me |
Re: 30 gig drive only 25 after format??
Blinky the Shark wrote:
> > There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get > something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but > I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment. Format to DMF using Winimage: http://www.winimage.com/winimage/winima61.zip -- http://www.bootdisk.com/ |
Re: 30 gig drive only 25 after format??
why? wrote:
> On 28 Jun 2005 18:10:12 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote: >>Gordon wrote: >>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote: >>>> my original question was: why did you advertise >>>> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one >>>> with only 25 gig. >>> Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB >>> formatted! >>There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get >>something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but >>I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment. > DMF 1.68 and 1.72 etc, this will let you do it WinImage from > www.winimage.com I could've sworn it could be done without any special software, by tweaking some native DOS file. I think I vaguely remember some file that contained formats available to the native format command, and adding lines that made available some larger formats; seems like there were four or six of them or so (1.8MB being the largest (or at least the largest recommended, before the magnetic granularity of the floppy medium itself made things too edgy). Maybe I'm misremembering. -- Blinky Linux Registered User 297263 Killing all Usenet posts from Google Groups Info: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html *ALSO contains links for access to the NON-BETA GG archive interface* |
Re: 30 gig drive only 25 after format??
Blinky the Shark wrote:
> why? wrote: > >> On 28 Jun 2005 18:10:12 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote: > >>>Gordon wrote: >>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote: > > >>>>> my original question was: why did you advertise >>>>> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one >>>>> with only 25 gig. > >>>> Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB >>>> formatted! > >>>There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get >>>something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but >>>I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment. > >> DMF 1.68 and 1.72 etc, this will let you do it WinImage from >> www.winimage.com > > I could've sworn it could be done without any special software, by > tweaking some native DOS file. I think I vaguely remember some file > that contained formats available to the native format command, and > adding lines that made available some larger formats; seems like there > were four or six of them or so (1.8MB being the largest (or at least > the largest recommended, before the magnetic granularity of the floppy > medium itself made things too edgy). Maybe I'm misremembering. I vaguely remember this also, but it's been a long time since I've used DOS. Perhaps you are remembering the superformat command in Linux, which has similar functionality? This also has a configuration file (/etc/fdprm or /etc/mediaprm) containing a list of the various formats available. -- Current peeve: The inability of many Google Groups (G2) users to attribute and quote text in followups. |
Re: 30 gig drive only 25 after format??
SirReal wrote:
> my original question was: why did you advertise > a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one > with only 25 gig. here is his response. is he on > the level?? i don't see formatting taking up 5 gig. > perhaps i am wrong. please. i need your responses. > be as concise as possible. thanks in advance. What planet have you been living on for the past 30 years?! I *CANNOT* believe there is *STILL* someoneon this planet who doesn't know the difference between decimal and binary! You could have Googled instead of posting here and making yourself an even bigger ****wit than you already obviously are. Go back to living in your cave, or wherever it is you've spent the past three decades or so. You're speaking as though this isn't your first computer - didn't you notice the difference with other systems you've owned?! |
Re: what i found out, 30 gig - only 25
....here is what i found out, i had to bark at
2 'techies' to finally get the answer. the disk 'format' took only took up a little over 2 gigs. here is what took up the rest: On all new Dell systems beginning 07/16/2004, Dell installed a PC Restore partition (DSR) that can be used in restoring the system to out-of-box condition. It is the easiest way to reinstall the Operating System. The Dell PC Restore partition (DSR) will take up approximately 3.0 GB of the hard drive space. You can follow these steps to check the PC Restore partition in disk management. 1. Click Start -> Control Panel * Look to the left panel. If listed, click "Switch to Classic View" 2. Click Administrative Tools 3. Open Computer Management. 4. Click on Disk Management under Storage. The discrepancy in reporting drive sizes (base-2 vs. base-10) may lead you to believe that you have a hard disk drive of less than expected capacity if you compare the figure reported by the operating system with the figure reported by your documentation, although the actual hard drive size is identical. Microsoft® Windows® simply counts the size differently, and will report a different, slightly smaller, figure. Here are some common hard drive sizes and their size as reported by the operating system: 4.3 GB = 4.0 GB 6.4 GB = 6.10 GB 8.4 GB = 8.01 GB 9.1 GB = 8.68 GB 11.5 GB = 10.97 GB 13.6 GB =12.66 GB 16 GB =15.26 GB 20.0 GB = 18.6 GB 20.4 GB = 19.46 GB 24.4 GB = 22.99 GB 27.3 GB = 26.04 GB 30 GB = 28.61 GB 45 GB = 43 GB For more information, you may also refer to the link/site below: http://support.dell.com/support/topi...ent?DN=1024750 * If listed, click Home and Home Office * Type in your Service Tag number [press Enter] Also, I have checked your system specifications. Your hard disk drive has the 30 GB size it just happens that the other amount of it is allocated to the other components of your system. You can see how much space the Dell PC Restore partition (DSR) and other partitions occupy on the hard drive. Please Note: You should be logged on with an account with administrator rights to check and use Disk Management. wish they would have told me about this is some flyer or note in the setup guide or something. ah heck i enjoyed jumpin' down there throat. poetic justice. since they keep reducing the price of this machine. paid $599(US). now i can get the same thing for $540(US). christ you know it ain't easy, you know how hard it can be. the way things are going. there gonna crucify me. |
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