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Jared 10-13-2004 12:43 AM

What programming language
 
This is going to seem like a generic question that has been posed 1001
times and is probably very subjective, but I need some real world
answers, rather than textbook answers.

Let me give my background in 2-3 sentences:
1. I am a developer who has been programming for about 3 years and
have done the following:
- Java (1 year experience)
- Visual Basic 6 (Done quite a few in house utility and add on
programs)
- 4th Dimension (1 1/2 years worth of work doing client server
programming)
- ASP (not ASP.NET) using vbscript and MYSQL
I currently work for a company doing advanced 4D programming and am
quite good at it.
2. I own Visual Studio 6.0 PRO, Visual Studio .NET 2003 Ent. and
JBuilder 6
I have done my homework on the "advantages" to all approaches, but I
want the real world answer....AND HERE IS MY QUESTION:

What technology would be a good fit with my background and experience
that would enable me to make a go at trying to go on my own? I need
something that is going to be RAD, but still be efficient and
professional looking (not Java), while not cositng me a bunch of money
to get started. I would also like to note that the only .NET apps that
I've seen seemed slow and bloated like a Java app compared to a
compiled VB 6 or VC++ app.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Jared

Elliott Back 10-13-2004 02:14 AM

Re: What programming language
 
Jared wrote:
> This is going to seem like a generic question that has been posed 1001
> times and is probably very subjective, but I need some real world
> answers, rather than textbook answers.
>
> Let me give my background in 2-3 sentences:
> 1. I am a developer who has been programming for about 3 years and
> have done the following:
> - Java (1 year experience)
> - Visual Basic 6 (Done quite a few in house utility and add on
> programs)
> - 4th Dimension (1 1/2 years worth of work doing client server
> programming)
> - ASP (not ASP.NET) using vbscript and MYSQL
> I currently work for a company doing advanced 4D programming and am
> quite good at it.
> 2. I own Visual Studio 6.0 PRO, Visual Studio .NET 2003 Ent. and
> JBuilder 6
> I have done my homework on the "advantages" to all approaches, but I
> want the real world answer....AND HERE IS MY QUESTION:
>
> What technology would be a good fit with my background and experience
> that would enable me to make a go at trying to go on my own? I need
> something that is going to be RAD, but still be efficient and
> professional looking (not Java), while not cositng me a bunch of money
> to get started. I would also like to note that the only .NET apps that
> I've seen seemed slow and bloated like a Java app compared to a
> compiled VB 6 or VC++ app.
>
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
>
> Jared


Microsoft's C# is quite fast, and is a Rapid App. Developement
environment as well. The .NET API is as rich as javas, and the typesafe
language, as well as the great IDE make it a pleasure, I gind, to use.
Speedwise, it's way faster than java, from what I can tell. The GUI is
sharp and responsive--it's the best way to write a Windows App.

--
Thanks,
Elliott C. Bäck
---------------------------------
www.elliottback.com/blog/
www.spreadIE.com

W.G. Ryan eMVP 10-13-2004 02:25 AM

Re: What programming language
 
Focus on Learning the framework - that's the real challenge in .NET. I flip
back and forth between VB.NET and C# all the time, the power of the IDE is
enough to get you through that, but understanding memory management,
security, Boxing etc, that's the real challenge. Once you learn the
framework you can learn either, both or any other .NET language very
quickly.

--
W.G. Ryan MVP (Windows Embedded)

TiBA Solutions
www.tibasolutions.com | www.devbuzz.com | www.knowdotnet.com
"Jared" <dev-jared@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:58e12de3.0410121643.2cb0fec5@posting.google.c om...
> This is going to seem like a generic question that has been posed 1001
> times and is probably very subjective, but I need some real world
> answers, rather than textbook answers.
>
> Let me give my background in 2-3 sentences:
> 1. I am a developer who has been programming for about 3 years and
> have done the following:
> - Java (1 year experience)
> - Visual Basic 6 (Done quite a few in house utility and add on
> programs)
> - 4th Dimension (1 1/2 years worth of work doing client server
> programming)
> - ASP (not ASP.NET) using vbscript and MYSQL
> I currently work for a company doing advanced 4D programming and am
> quite good at it.
> 2. I own Visual Studio 6.0 PRO, Visual Studio .NET 2003 Ent. and
> JBuilder 6
> I have done my homework on the "advantages" to all approaches, but I
> want the real world answer....AND HERE IS MY QUESTION:
>
> What technology would be a good fit with my background and experience
> that would enable me to make a go at trying to go on my own? I need
> something that is going to be RAD, but still be efficient and
> professional looking (not Java), while not cositng me a bunch of money
> to get started. I would also like to note that the only .NET apps that
> I've seen seemed slow and bloated like a Java app compared to a
> compiled VB 6 or VC++ app.
>
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
>
> Jared




Jon Skeet [C# MVP] 10-13-2004 07:53 AM

Re: What programming language
 
Elliott Back <elliott@cornell.edu> wrote:

<snip>

> Speedwise, it's way faster than java, from what I can tell.


I would suggest that either you haven't used a modern JRE, or you
haven't seen well-written Java programs then.

Java has a slower startup time (it's improving, but it's still
relatively slow) but is roughly comparable for speed for most purposes.
There are some places where .NET wins, and some where Java wins.

--
Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

Cor Ligthert 10-13-2004 09:12 AM

Re: What programming language
 
Jared,

The languages C# and VBNet are almost the same as well as the results from
that.

I keep it for the moment to VBNet because I have proven that I am good in
making typos.
VBNet helps me a lot with that.

Otherwise I would not know why I should choose for the one or for the other,
they both have a lot of legacy stuff as every language, what when you are
busy let you think why do I have to type that stuff, it has no sense.

However keep in mind that
VBNet and C# are much more the same than VB6 and VBNet are, as Bill somewhat
wrote when you know one of them it is very easy to switch to the other.
(However than making a lot of typos)

Just my thought,

Cor

"Jared" <dev-jared@shaw.ca> schreef in bericht
news:58e12de3.0410121643.2cb0fec5@posting.google.c om...
> This is going to seem like a generic question that has been posed 1001
> times and is probably very subjective, but I need some real world
> answers, rather than textbook answers.
>
> Let me give my background in 2-3 sentences:
> 1. I am a developer who has been programming for about 3 years and
> have done the following:
> - Java (1 year experience)
> - Visual Basic 6 (Done quite a few in house utility and add on
> programs)
> - 4th Dimension (1 1/2 years worth of work doing client server
> programming)
> - ASP (not ASP.NET) using vbscript and MYSQL
> I currently work for a company doing advanced 4D programming and am
> quite good at it.
> 2. I own Visual Studio 6.0 PRO, Visual Studio .NET 2003 Ent. and
> JBuilder 6
> I have done my homework on the "advantages" to all approaches, but I
> want the real world answer....AND HERE IS MY QUESTION:
>
> What technology would be a good fit with my background and experience
> that would enable me to make a go at trying to go on my own? I need
> something that is going to be RAD, but still be efficient and
> professional looking (not Java), while not cositng me a bunch of money
> to get started. I would also like to note that the only .NET apps that
> I've seen seemed slow and bloated like a Java app compared to a
> compiled VB 6 or VC++ app.
>
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
>
> Jared




Jared 10-13-2004 03:22 PM

Re: What programming language
 
I am not concerned about VB.net vs C#. I understand that running on
the framework makes both of those about the same in the performance
department. I have worked with VB6 and Java so VB.NET and C# syntax
are both quite farmiliar. The ultimate question is....is it better to
stick with VB6 for RAD projects? Is there are technologies that would
be better that aren't going to cost me more than I've already spent on
dev tools?

Thanks,

Jared

Jared 10-13-2004 03:28 PM

Re: What programming language
 
I don't want to make this a .NET or MS vs Java question. I am simply
after a cost effective solution to go with when starting my own
business. I found Java to be very clunky in the interface. I really
enjoyed my year programming in Java, but hated writing Interface code.
Besides my limited experience, which it seems that I would need a lot
more of to create a competitive app, I have never yet seen a Java app
that flows nicely. If this is possible and you don't want to turn this
into a big and unneccessary debate please feel free to email me and
give me some suggestions.

To everyone else that reads this post and is replying, please remember
that this post is intended to help me and others like me understand
what technology has worked for the small or single person business out
there.

Thanks again for everyones response so far.

Cor Ligthert 10-13-2004 04:46 PM

Re: What programming language
 
Jared,

This is a difficult question, you never know what there is tomorrow.

When it is about VB6 or VBNet the answer is in my opinion simple, VBNet is
much more productive.

And the OOP posibilities from all Net programs give you the possibilities
for an endless amount of self created classes, while the amount of Net base
classes are in my opinion often for almost everybody a suprise.

Sometimes you see documentated class which exist already very long, however
even when you are very active in this dotNet newsgroup never saw before.

Some standard classes are that good, that making them yourself is a waist of
time and in my opinion only good for hobbyists.

Just my thought,

Cor



John Baker 10-13-2004 05:21 PM

Re: What programming language
 
Jared wrote:
> I am not concerned about VB.net vs C#. I understand that running on
> the framework makes both of those about the same in the performance
> department.


Followups set to alt.computer.consultants

You mentioned you were going into business - I'm going to assume that
means analysis, design, and programming on a contract basis.

I've been on my own for 4 years, and have worked for consulting firms
since 1992. Yet I am still just 1 person, so take what I say with a
grain of salt. Other peoples' milage may vary.

Since being on my own, what development tool I use has more often than
not been dictated by the client.

In the minority of cases where they have looked to me for that decision,
it has usually been a small shop (or small department in large shop whom
IT there is ignoring, most often due to being overworked).

Given that their needs were usually not complex, I never saw an example
where they couldn't be covered well with something as simple as MS
Access with either native Jet or SQL Server backend. For some reason my
clients have shied away from Web interfaces. Technical considerations
count, but also remember you won't always be there. You need to keep in
mind how easy it will be for your client to find someone to update your
work after you've moved on.

It is usually only larger, more complex projects that will need anything
more. I have never landed one of these as a one-man-shop, though I used
to do them all the time when I worked for a large firm. (Then again, my
marketing skills are sub-par I think.)

In fact, my presence here in the dotnet groups is due largely to the
fact that I am learning it in order to take my shingle down and work for
someone else again. The money has been great, but I miss the challenge
of more complex projects, and I feel my skillset is starting to deteriorate.

Again, YMMV.


Jared 10-14-2004 01:19 AM

Re: What programming language
 
Thanks to all for your responses.

One last question regarding .Net. What are the chances that MS would
through in a curve ball and start charging the developers a distro fee
for running there program on the .NET framework? This would obviously
hugely degrade the desirability to both the developer and the end
user.


Jared


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