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David Segall 01-17-2006 02:12 PM

Text below image on hover
 
I have the usual flags to denote various languages in my page heading
and I would like to provide the name of the language underneath them
when the user has selected one or is hovering above one.

The desired effect is illustrated here
<http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2083> except that the menu
items, in my case, are images. That site achieves the effect by
changing the display of the sub-text from "none" to "block" in the CSS
for a and a:hover. How can I do the same thing for my images? My
attempts, so far, have resulted in disappearing images and text in
almost every place except where I want it.

Dylan Parry 01-17-2006 02:22 PM

Re: Text below image on hover
 
Pondering the eternal question of "Hobnobs or Rich Tea?", David Segall
finally proclaimed:

> I have the usual flags to denote various languages

....

Stop right there. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/flags.html

--
Dylan Parry
http://webpageworkshop.co.uk -- FREE Web tutorials and references

Disclaimer: This post does not represent the opinion of me or my cats.

David Segall 01-17-2006 03:44 PM

Re: Text below image on hover
 
Dylan Parry <usenet@dylanparry.com> wrote:

>Pondering the eternal question of "Hobnobs or Rich Tea?", David Segall
>finally proclaimed:
>
>> I have the usual flags to denote various languages

>...
>
>Stop right there. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/flags.html

Your argument (I assume you agree) is basically "Don't use icons
because they may be misunderstood and/or offend someone". It
contradicts a thirty year history in the development of user
interfaces but, of course, that does not mean that you are wrong.

Jonathan N. Little 01-17-2006 03:54 PM

Re: Text below image on hover
 
David Segall wrote:
> I have the usual flags to denote various languages in my page heading
> and I would like to provide the name of the language underneath them
> when the user has selected one or is hovering above one.
>
> The desired effect is illustrated here
> <http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2083> except that the menu
> items, in my case, are images. That site achieves the effect by
> changing the display of the sub-text from "none" to "block" in the CSS
> for a and a:hover. How can I do the same thing for my images? My
> attempts, so far, have resulted in disappearing images and text in
> almost every place except where I want it.


<style type="text/css">
.icon { float: left; background-color: #000; }
.icon A { text-decoration: none; }
.icon IMG { border: 0; padding: 2px; }
.icon SPAN { color: #fc0; padding: .2em; }
.icon A:link SPAN,
.icon A:visited SPAN { display: none; }
.icon A:hover SPAN,
.icon A:active SPAN { display: block; }
.icon A:link,
.icon A:visited { display: inline; }
.icon A:hover,
.icon A:active { display: block; }
</style>

<div class="icon">
<a href="english.html">
<img src="english.jpg" alt="icon">
<span class="caption">English</span>
</a>
</div>
<div class="icon">
<a href="spanish.html">
<img src="spanish.jpg" alt="icon">
<span class="caption">Spanish</span>
</a>
</div>
<div class="icon">
<a href="french.html">
<img src="french.jpg" alt="icon">
<span class="caption">French</span>
</a>
</div>


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Dylan Parry 01-17-2006 04:31 PM

Re: Text below image on hover
 
Pondering the eternal question of "Hobnobs or Rich Tea?", David Segall
finally proclaimed:

> It contradicts a thirty year history in the development of user
> interfaces but, of course, that does not mean that you are wrong.


Just because a billion flies eat poo doesn't mean that it tastes good!
;)

--
Dylan Parry
http://electricfreedom.org -- Where the Music Progressively Rocks!

Disclaimer: This post does not represent the opinion of me or my cats.

Alan J. Flavell 01-17-2006 06:28 PM

Re: Text below image on hover
 

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, David Segall wrote:

> Dylan Parry <usenet@dylanparry.com> wrote:
>
> >Pondering the eternal question of "Hobnobs or Rich Tea?", David Segall
> >finally proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have the usual flags to denote various languages

> >
> >Stop right there. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/flags.html

>
> Your argument (I assume you agree) is basically "Don't use icons
> because they may be misunderstood and/or offend someone".


Then you haven't read the article properly.

> It contradicts a thirty year history in the development of user
> interfaces but, of course, that does not mean that you are wrong.


Take a look at http://www.google.co.uk/language_tools, for example.

I won't say that everything that Google does is right, but this seems
OK to me. The flags denote *countries*. The languages are denoted by
their *names*.

Any other interpretation of national flags is doomed, except in a
limited number of special cases. But special cases are a poor
starting point for anything that's meant to work in a WWW situation.

Neredbojias 01-18-2006 09:24 AM

Re: Text below image on hover
 
With neither quill nor qualm, Dylan Parry quothed:

> Pondering the eternal question of "Hobnobs or Rich Tea?", David Segall
> finally proclaimed:
>
> > It contradicts a thirty year history in the development of user
> > interfaces but, of course, that does not mean that you are wrong.

>
> Just because a billion flies eat poo doesn't mean that it tastes good!


Have you ever tried it?

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

Dylan Parry 01-18-2006 09:39 AM

Re: Text below image on hover
 
Pondering the eternal question of "Hobnobs or Rich Tea?", Neredbojias
finally proclaimed:

>> Just because a billion flies eat poo doesn't mean that it tastes good!

>
> Have you ever tried it?


No. Have you tried my cooking? It doesn't taste good the first time
round, so what makes you think it would the second?

--
Dylan Parry
http://webpageworkshop.co.uk -- FREE Web tutorials and references

Disclaimer: This post does not represent the opinion of me or my cats.

David Segall 01-18-2006 02:36 PM

Re: Text below image on hover
 
"Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@physics.gla.ac.uk> wrote:

>
>On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, David Segall wrote:
>
>> Dylan Parry <usenet@dylanparry.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Pondering the eternal question of "Hobnobs or Rich Tea?", David Segall
>> >finally proclaimed:
>> >
>> >> I have the usual flags to denote various languages
>> >
>> >Stop right there. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/flags.html

>>
>> Your argument (I assume you agree) is basically "Don't use icons
>> because they may be misunderstood and/or offend someone".

>
>Then you haven't read the article properly.

Can you suggest a way of reading the article "properly" without
agreeing with it?
>
>> It contradicts a thirty year history in the development of user
>> interfaces but, of course, that does not mean that you are wrong.

>
>Take a look at http://www.google.co.uk/language_tools, for example.
>
>I won't say that everything that Google does is right, but this seems
>OK to me. The flags denote *countries*. The languages are denoted by
>their *names*.

I don't need to make that distinction on my site. In any case, nobody
would recommend using any form of icons for such a large number of
choices unless they were beside the names in a drop down list. It is
not even consistent since it uses a drop down list to represent
countries in one part and a page of icons in another.
>
>Any other interpretation of national flags is doomed, except in a
>limited number of special cases. But special cases are a poor
>starting point for anything that's meant to work in a WWW situation.

Icons are necessarily special cases. Jukka Korpela's article
acknowledges the universal use of the Union Jack as an icon meaning
English. It is used, not only on web pages, but in instruction manuals
and airport lounges.

Finally, I have to acknowledge that I have already lost this argument.
Next time I am anxiously scanning the notices in a European airport I
will have to look for a "flag" that spells out "en" instead of the one
most English speakers recognise instantly.
<http://europa.eu.int/comm/ipg/library/standard_images_en.htm#language_icone>
It is a triumph of misplaced logic and ethnic/national sensitivity
over communication.

Alan J. Flavell 01-18-2006 06:31 PM

Re: Text below image on hover
 

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, David Segall wrote:

> Icons are necessarily special cases. Jukka Korpela's article
> acknowledges the universal use of the Union Jack as an icon meaning
> English.


You misrepresent him. Widespread, yes - he says "most commonly used"
(as compared to other national flags, presumably), but "universal",
no.

My American colleague gets very upset about that, too, muttering dark
imprecations about delusions of colonial grandeur, Boston Tea Party
and such. Naturally, he'd use the stars and stripes to denote the
language. And there's more of them, and they tend to have an even
narrower view of international relations...

And English is not the only indigenous national language spoken (and
written) in the United Kingdom.

> It is a triumph of misplaced logic and ethnic/national sensitivity
> over communication.


If it amuses you to think so. Which language does the Indian flag
represent in your universe, by the way?


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