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-   -   Alternative for framed site (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t161202-alternative-for-framed-site.html)

Nico Schuyt 03-10-2005 10:19 AM

Alternative for framed site
 
Long long time ago I built a framed site: http://www.vleeskens.nl/ :-)
The layout was designed in Corel Draw by someone else and I was not allowed
to change it. At that time I couldn't think of an an alternative for frames.
New atempt:
A (stable) layout with only div boxes seems to be impossible to make with
this layout.
On http://www.vleeskens.nl/p_basis2.htm an iframe is applied and some more
CSS. Could be an improvement but I don't like iframes.
On http://www.vleeskens.nl/p_div.htm a design using a table in combination
with a scrollable div. A snippet of javascript is used to make it scrollable
in Mozilla based browsers. Result looks good in IE but in FireFox it
collapses and in Opera it's bad: The content div has no height.

The problem could be solved if I knew how to assign a height: 90% to a div
in a table with height: 100%.
Anyone an idea how to realize that?

--
Nico
http://www.nicoschuyt.nl



Spartanicus 03-10-2005 11:05 AM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
"Nico Schuyt" <nschuyt@hotmail.com> wrote:

>The problem could be solved if I knew how to assign a height: 90% to a div
>in a table with height: 100%.


body{margin:0;padding:0}
html,body,table,td{height:100%}
div{height:90%}

--
Spartanicus

Nico Schuyt 03-10-2005 11:51 AM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
Spartanicus wrote:
> "Nico Schuyt" wrote:


>> The problem could be solved if I knew how to assign a height: 90% to
>> a div in a table with height: 100%.


> body{margin:0;padding:0}
> html,body,table,td{height:100%}
> div{height:90%}


Well, that's in principal the same as I did.
I added an overflow:auto to the div in your code and end up in
http://www.vleeskens.nl/p_height.htm
IE: OK
FF: Table is too high
Opera: The div has a height of zero :-(

--
Nico
http://www.nicoschuyt.nl



Spartanicus 03-10-2005 02:05 PM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
"Nico Schuyt" <nschuyt@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>> The problem could be solved if I knew how to assign a height: 90% to
>>> a div in a table with height: 100%.

>
>> body{margin:0;padding:0}
>> html,body,table,td{height:100%}
>> div{height:90%}

>
>Well, that's in principal the same as I did.
>I added an overflow:auto to the div in your code and end up in
>http://www.vleeskens.nl/p_height.htm
>IE: OK
>FF: Table is too high
>Opera: The div has a height of zero :-(


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/nico.htm


--
Spartanicus

Nico Schuyt 03-10-2005 02:22 PM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
Spartanicus wrote:
> "Nico Schuyt" <nschuyt@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> The problem could be solved if I knew how to assign a height: 90%
>>>> to a div in a table with height: 100%.


>>> body{margin:0;padding:0}
>>> html,body,table,td{height:100%}
>>> div{height:90%}


>> Well, that's in principal the same as I did.
>> I added an overflow:auto to the div in your code and end up in
>> http://www.vleeskens.nl/p_height.htm
>> IE: OK
>> FF: Table is too high
>> Opera: The div has a height of zero :-(


> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/nico.htm


OK, that works fine. The problem occurs when there's more text. IE handles
it correctly with overflow:auto but FF en Opera fail :-(

--
Nico
http://www.nicoschuyt.nl



Spartanicus 03-10-2005 04:26 PM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
"Nico Schuyt" <nschuyt@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/nico.htm

>
>OK, that works fine. The problem occurs when there's more text. IE handles
>it correctly with overflow:auto but FF en Opera fail :-(


I can't be bothered to look up the why, but I can guarantee you that IE
get's it wrong, and FF & Opera get it right.

Ditching the table would probably solve it, but you should dump the
whole idea, scrolling divs are a usability nightmare.

--
Spartanicus

Nico Schuyt 03-10-2005 05:43 PM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
Spartanicus wrote:
> "Nico Schuyt" <nschuyt@hotmail.com> wrote:


>>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/nico.htm


>> OK, that works fine. The problem occurs when there's more text. IE
>> handles it correctly with overflow:auto but FF en Opera fail :-(


> I can't be bothered to look up the why, but I can guarantee you that
> IE get's it wrong,


I'm not so sure. The browser is instructed (suggested :-) to render a table
as 100% height
of window size and a div with 90% of the height of the cel. IE does so.

> and FF & Opera get it right.


FF and Opera render the page completely different

> Ditching the table would probably solve it, but you should dump the
> whole idea, scrolling divs are a usability nightmare.


The alternatives (frame and iframe) are not ideal too. I don't think it's
possible to create this specific design with div's only.

Thanks anyway!

--
Nico
http://www.nicoschuyt.nl




Lauri Raittila 03-10-2005 08:59 PM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
in alt.html, Nico Schuyt wrote:
> Spartanicus wrote:
> > "Nico Schuyt" <nschuyt@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>> The problem could be solved if I knew how to assign a height: 90%
> >>>> to a div in a table with height: 100%.

>
> >>> body{margin:0;padding:0}
> >>> html,body,table,td{height:100%}
> >>> div{height:90%}

>
> >> Well, that's in principal the same as I did.
> >> I added an overflow:auto to the div in your code and end up in
> >> http://www.vleeskens.nl/p_height.htm
> >> IE: OK
> >> FF: Table is too high
> >> Opera: The div has a height of zero :-(

>
> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/nico.htm

>
> OK, that works fine. The problem occurs when there's more text. IE handles
> it correctly with overflow:auto but FF en Opera fail :-(


Opera 7.5 IIRC handle isssue better than older/newer. Try applying width,
it fixes issue on all Opera 7, IIRC.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Utrecht, NL.

Nico Schuyt 03-10-2005 09:19 PM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
Lauri Raittila wrote:
> in alt.html, Nico Schuyt wrote:
>> Spartanicus wrote:


>>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/nico.htm


>> OK, that works fine. The problem occurs when there's more text. IE
>> handles it correctly with overflow:auto but FF en Opera fail :-(


> Opera 7.5 IIRC handle isssue better than older/newer.


"Best viewed with Opera 7.5000000"

> Try applying
> width, it fixes issue on all Opera 7, IIRC.


A width property on the div has no effect in Opera 7.54
(http://www.vleeskens.nl/p_height.htm) :-(

--
Nico
http://www.nicoschuyt.nl



Lauri Raittila 03-10-2005 10:34 PM

Re: Alternative for framed site
 
in alt.html, Nico Schuyt wrote:
> Lauri Raittila wrote:
> > in alt.html, Nico Schuyt wrote:
> >> Spartanicus wrote:

>
> >>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/nico.htm

>
> >> OK, that works fine. The problem occurs when there's more text. IE
> >> handles it correctly with overflow:auto but FF en Opera fail :-(

>
> > Opera 7.5 IIRC handle isssue better than older/newer.

>
> "Best viewed with Opera 7.5000000"


Actually, it is not exactly same problem...
I didn't notice your undefined use of CSS:

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#height-layout
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/tables.html#height-layout
| CSS 2[.1] does not define what percentage values of 'height' refer to
| when specified for table cells.

> A width property on the div has no effect in Opera 7.54
> (http://www.vleeskens.nl/p_height.htm) :-(


Add:
td {position:relative;}
div {position:absolute;}

And it magically starts working on Opera 8b2...

You can see the bug I was talking about here:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~laurirai...incorrect.html

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Utrecht, NL.


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