Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

I have several pages of links (in a foreign language) that look good
with IE and Opera. Recently I discovered the Mozilla Firefox browser
and was surprised to see that some of the graphic bullets are
displayed in the wrong side of the text. All the lines of code for the
links are identical. Why is it happening?

http://users.bigpond.net.au/blackbox/anz/anz.html

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

Cogito wrote:

> I have several pages of links (in a foreign language) that
> look good with IE and Opera. Recently I discovered the
> Mozilla Firefox browser and was surprised to see that some
> of the graphic bullets are displayed in the wrong side of
> the text. All the lines of code for the links are
> identical. Why is it happening?
>
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/blackbox/anz/anz.html

First thing I see when clicking on it, is Hebrew text. This is
written from right to left, so you're probably making use of
<rtl> and <ltr> elements?

Then I want to "enter", but you have a problem with the frames,
see this screendump from Firebird.
http://locusmeus.com/temp/anz.jpg

The "bin"-link top right corner, right frame, is the only link I
can click, and leads to the NZ map.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Raça Negra - Esqueça

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

Cogito wrote:

> I have several pages of links (in a foreign language) that look good
> with IE and Opera. Recently I discovered the Mozilla Firefox browser
> and was surprised to see that some of the graphic bullets are
> displayed in the wrong side of the text.

Isn't the language right-to-left? In which case it'd be correct to have the
bullets on the right.

It's the same in Konqueror (and presumably Safari)

> All the lines of code for the
> links are identical. Why is it happening?
>
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/blackbox/anz/anz.html

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

Els wrote:

> Cogito wrote:
>
>> I have several pages of links (in a foreign language) that
>> look good with IE and Opera. Recently I discovered the
>> Mozilla Firefox browser and was surprised to see that some
>> of the graphic bullets are displayed in the wrong side of
>> the text. All the lines of code for the links are
>> identical. Why is it happening?
>>
>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/blackbox/anz/anz.html
>
> First thing I see when clicking on it, is Hebrew text. This is
> written from right to left, so you're probably making use of
> <rtl> and <ltr> elements?
>
> Then I want to "enter", but you have a problem with the frames,
> see this screendump from Firebird.
> http://locusmeus.com/temp/anz.jpg

Screenshot from my computer (Firefox 0.93, Linux) - looks fine to me
http://users.aber.ac.uk/jqh1/foxy.png

> The "bin"-link top right corner, right frame, is the only link I
> can click, and leads to the NZ map.
>

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

Els wrote:

> Cogito wrote:
>
>> I have several pages of links (in a foreign language) that
>> look good with IE and Opera. Recently I discovered the
>> Mozilla Firefox browser and was surprised to see that some
>> of the graphic bullets are displayed in the wrong side of
>> the text. All the lines of code for the links are
>> identical. Why is it happening?
>>
>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/blackbox/anz/anz.html
>
> First thing I see when clicking on it, is Hebrew text. This
> is written from right to left, so you're probably making
> use of <rtl> and <ltr> elements?

Okay, I have now looked in IE and Firefox (not Firebird), and
I see your problem.
You're talking about for instance the links
on this page:
homepage -> click on "Australia" (hoping you read Hebrew!) ->
then click on "Telefon" ->
the links in the main frame:
Telstra (right side)
Optus (wrong side)
Virgin "
Vodafone "
Orange "
Three "

Right?

Haven't figured out (yet) why it's like that, at first sight I
see no reason either.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Raça Negra - Maravilha

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

>Okay, I have now looked in IE and Firefox (not Firebird), and
>I see your problem.
>You're talking about for instance the links
>on this page:
>homepage -> click on "Australia" (hoping you read Hebrew!) ->
>then click on "Telefon" ->
>the links in the main frame:
>Telstra (right side)
> Optus (wrong side)
> Virgin "
> Vodafone "
> Orange "
> Three "
>
>Right?
>
>Haven't figured out (yet) why it's like that, at first sight I
>see no reason either.


Yes, this is the problem. Most bullets appear on the right with the
text to their left, as should be and as is the case with IE and Opera.
With Firefox, most links are ok, but some, for unknown reason, have
the icon on the left of the text.

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:50:35 +0100, Jim Higson <jh@333.org> wrote:

>Screenshot from my computer (Firefox 0.93, Linux) - looks fine to me
>http://users.aber.ac.uk/jqh1/foxy.png


You need to click on one of the links that are on the right in order
to get to the problematic page.

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

Cogito wrote:

>>Okay, I have now looked in IE and Firefox (not Firebird),
>>and I see your problem.
>>You're talking about for instance the links
>>on this page:
>>homepage -> click on "Australia" (hoping you read Hebrew!)
>>-> then click on "Telefon" ->
>>the links in the main frame:
>>Telstra (right side)
>> Optus (wrong side)
>> Virgin "
>> Vodafone "
>> Orange "
>> Three "
>>
>>Right?
>>
>>Haven't figured out (yet) why it's like that, at first
>>sight I see no reason either.
>
>
> Yes, this is the problem. Most bullets appear on the right
> with the text to their left, as should be and as is the
> case with IE and Opera. With Firefox, most links are ok,
> but some, for unknown reason, have the icon on the left of
> the text.

Well, those 'some' are all English, and the only English ones
that have the bullet on the right side, are those following
Hebrew ones. (AFAICS)

I guess Firefox somehow detects the used language by the
character. I know there's some mentioning of the left to right
and right to left use in the specs, maybe you can find the
reason in there?

What would happen if you substitute the English ones with
Hebrew ones? Would the bullet switch place? I think it would,
actually.

Interesting stuff, I might have a look at it again later.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Renato Russo - Eduardo e Mônica

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

Els wrote:

> Cogito wrote:
>
>>>Okay, I have now looked in IE and Firefox (not Firebird),
>>>and I see your problem.
>>>You're talking about for instance the links
>>>on this page:
>>>homepage -> click on "Australia" (hoping you read Hebrew!)
>>>-> then click on "Telefon" ->
>>>the links in the main frame:
>>>Telstra (right side)
>>> Optus (wrong side)
>>> Virgin "
>>> Vodafone "
>>> Orange "
>>> Three "
>>>
>>>Right?
>>>
>>>Haven't figured out (yet) why it's like that, at first
>>>sight I see no reason either.
>>
>> Yes, this is the problem. Most bullets appear on the right
>> with the text to their left, as should be and as is the
>> case with IE and Opera. With Firefox, most links are ok,
>> but some, for unknown reason, have the icon on the left of
>> the text.
>
> Well, those 'some' are all English, and the only English
> ones that have the bullet on the right side, are those
> following Hebrew ones. (AFAICS)
>
> I guess Firefox somehow detects the used language by the
> character. I know there's some mentioning of the left to
> right and right to left use in the specs, maybe you can
> find the reason in there?
>
> What would happen if you substitute the English ones with
> Hebrew ones? Would the bullet switch place? I think it
> would, actually.
>
> Interesting stuff, I might have a look at it again later.

Okay, investigated a little.

Haven't studied it in depth, but this link:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#direction
explains why it's like that. The Hebrew characters indeed have
a natural rtl direction, and the English ones have it ltr.

The document is bidirectional:

<quote>
For the 'direction' property to affect reordering in inline-
level elements, the 'unicode-bidi' property's value must be
'embed' or 'override'.
</quote>

And here's part of the solution:
<quote>
Please note that in order to be able to flow inline boxes in a
uniform direction (either entirely left-to-right or entirely
right-to-left), more inline boxes (including anonymous inline
boxes) may have to be created, and some inline boxes may have
to be split up and reordered before flowing.
</quote>

Sounds like you'll need some extra coding :-)
Why don't you avoid the problem altogether and write those
English brandnames in Hebrew too? Makes more sense too, imho.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: S a a r - 12

Re: Problem with the Mozilla Firefox Browser
 

Els wrote:

> Haven't studied it in depth, but this link:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#direction
> explains why it's like that. The Hebrew characters indeed
> have a natural rtl direction, and the English ones have it
> ltr.
>
> The document is bidirectional:
>
> <quote>
> For the 'direction' property to affect reordering in
> inline- level elements, the 'unicode-bidi' property's value
> must be 'embed' or 'override'.
> </quote>
>
> And here's part of the solution:
> <quote>
> Please note that in order to be able to flow inline boxes
> in a uniform direction (either entirely left-to-right or
> entirely right-to-left), more inline boxes (including
> anonymous inline boxes) may have to be created, and some
> inline boxes may have to be split up and reordered before
> flowing. </quote>
>
> Sounds like you'll need some extra coding :-)
> Why don't you avoid the problem altogether and write those
> English brandnames in Hebrew too? Makes more sense too,
> imho.

Or use the simple html solution:
http://locusmeus.com/temp/rtl.html

Be aware of the order of the stuff inside the spans.
That's why I put the span tags (start and end tag of the span
element) between the lines instead of at the end and the
beginning. In a rtl environment the elements also get read the
other way round, so this way I avoid the mix-up between the
end or the beginning of a line.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: S a a r - 9