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DaveG 07-31-2004 04:29 PM

Frames or Not
 
Hi. I am reading all the posts here and I can see that the way forward for
me is to learn CSS and forget what I read in my "Using HTLM" book where
they teach layout using tables.

My question is, do I still need to use frames (2 vertical) to still
achieve the nav bar in the left frame and the main pages displayed in the
right or can I achieve this with css and divs etc.

Are there any good tutorial sites that can start me off on CSS, I live in
Oslo, though it's a beautiful city, the availability of good books is
poor.

Thanks Dave

Edwin van der Vaart 07-31-2004 04:48 PM

Re: Frames or Not
 
DaveG wrote:
> Hi. I am reading all the posts here and I can see that the way forward for
> me is to learn CSS and forget what I read in my "Using HTLM" book where
> they teach layout using tables.
>
> My question is, do I still need to use frames (2 vertical) to still
> achieve the nav bar in the left frame and the main pages displayed in the
> right or can I achieve this with css and divs etc.


I personally recommen css instead of 'rames'.
--
Edwin van der Vaart
http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction

Karl Groves 07-31-2004 04:50 PM

Re: Frames or Not
 

"DaveG" <DaveG@sharon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.31.16.30.08.438000@sharon.co.uk.. .
> Hi. I am reading all the posts here

<snip>
> My question is, do I still need to use frames

<snip>

apparently you aren't reading all the posts.


-Karl



Sam Hughes 07-31-2004 05:22 PM

Re: Frames or Not
 
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:29:36 +0200, DaveG <DaveG@sharon.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi. I am reading all the posts here and I can see that the way forward
> for
> me is to learn CSS and forget what I read in my "Using HTLM" book where
> they teach layout using tables.
>
> My question is, do I still need to use frames (2 vertical) to still
> achieve the nav bar in the left frame and the main pages displayed in the
> right or can I achieve this with css and divs etc.


Do you mean frames, or a table? Because you refered to the use of tables,
not frames, for layout. Frames have many problems of their own, dealing
with search engines, bookmarks, and extra work for the author, anyway.

But anyway, yes, you can still do that sort of layout.

--
Accessible web designs go easily unnoticed;
the others are remembered and avoided forever.

Toby Inkster 07-31-2004 05:25 PM

Re: Frames or Not
 
DaveG wrote:

> My question is, do I still need to use frames (2 vertical) to still
> achieve the nav bar in the left frame and the main pages displayed in the
> right


One has *never* needed frames to do that.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Now Playing ~ ./rolling_stones/sympathy_for_the_devil.ogg


DaveG 07-31-2004 05:30 PM

Re: Frames or Not
 
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:22:09 -0400, Sam Hughes wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:29:36 +0200, DaveG <DaveG@sharon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi. I am reading all the posts here and I can see that the way forward
>> for
>> me is to learn CSS and forget what I read in my "Using HTLM" book where
>> they teach layout using tables.
>>
>> My question is, do I still need to use frames (2 vertical) to still
>> achieve the nav bar in the left frame and the main pages displayed in the
>> right or can I achieve this with css and divs etc.

>
> Do you mean frames, or a table? Because you refered to the use of tables,
> not frames, for layout. Frames have many problems of their own, dealing
> with search engines, bookmarks, and extra work for the author, anyway.
>
> But anyway, yes, you can still do that sort of layout.


Thanks for the reply....

Yes I meant Frames, I was just pointing out that the book I originally
read published in 1997 taught "Advanced layout with Tables". I also
think that even though one uses Frames the pages still need to be
formatted for layout, I was trying to ask can I use CSS to do the same as
I could in Frames (click a link in one Frame and change the page in
another) or do I use Frames and then CSS to format the page in each Frame.

Thanks

Webcastmaker 07-31-2004 05:40 PM

Re: Frames or Not
 
In article <pan.2004.07.31.16.30.08.438000@sharon.co.uk>,
DaveG@sharon.co.uk says...
> Hi. I am reading all the posts here and I can see that the way forward for
> me is to learn CSS and forget what I read in my "Using HTLM" book where
> they teach layout using tables.


Most books still use tables for layout. Many developers use a
combination of tables and CSS depending on what you are trying to do.

> My question is, do I still need to use frames (2 vertical) to still
> achieve the nav bar in the left frame and the main pages displayed in the
> right or can I achieve this with css and divs etc.


Yes, you still would need to do that if you wanted the static menu
and different pages to "appear" on the side. But the newest "design
ideas" are that you don't NEED a static menu, you either just re-
display it (any number of ways but ssi is probably the easiest) And
your users will figure out that the menu is either at the top or on
the side should they scroll it off the visible page.

> Are there any good tutorial sites that can start me off on CSS, I live in
> Oslo, though it's a beautiful city, the availability of good books is
> poor.


You can start with w3schools.com they have some tutorials


--
WebcastMaker
The easiest and most affordable way to create
Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
www.webentations.com

DaveG 07-31-2004 05:55 PM

Re: Frames or Not
 
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:40:34 -0400, Webcastmaker wrote:

> In article <pan.2004.07.31.16.30.08.438000@sharon.co.uk>,
> DaveG@sharon.co.uk says...
>> Hi. I am reading all the posts here and I can see that the way forward for
>> me is to learn CSS and forget what I read in my "Using HTLM" book where
>> they teach layout using tables.

>
> Most books still use tables for layout. Many developers use a
> combination of tables and CSS depending on what you are trying to do.
>
>> My question is, do I still need to use frames (2 vertical) to still
>> achieve the nav bar in the left frame and the main pages displayed in the
>> right or can I achieve this with css and divs etc.

>
> Yes, you still would need to do that if you wanted the static menu
> and different pages to "appear" on the side. But the newest "design
> ideas" are that you don't NEED a static menu, you either just re-
> display it (any number of ways but ssi is probably the easiest) And
> your users will figure out that the menu is either at the top or on
> the side should they scroll it off the visible page.
>
>> Are there any good tutorial sites that can start me off on CSS, I live in
>> Oslo, though it's a beautiful city, the availability of good books is
>> poor.

>
> You can start with w3schools.com they have some tutorials


Thank you for the advice

rf 07-31-2004 11:11 PM

Re: Frames or Not
 
DaveG wrote

> I was just pointing out that the book I originally
> read published in 1997 taught "Advanced layout with Tables". I also


What? Seven years ago? Hopelessly out of date.

A book published even just two years ago would be a bit suspect.

--
Cheers
Richard.




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