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-   -   Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t153531-re-anyone-found-a-good-web-authoring-or-newsletter-package-for-executive-use.html)

Isofarro 06-23-2003 07:43 PM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use?
 
Nicolai P. Zwar wrote:

> The "problem" is
> "designing" and "layouting" an HTML page with CSS (or until not too long
> ago, with HTML itself!), and it's there where the problems for novices
> start,


With a properly constructed website where the CSS suggests the layout, there
is no problem with the user editing the content by himself, since the
presentation is done with the CSS.


--
Iso.
FAQs: http://html-faq.com http://alt-html.org http://allmyfaqs.com/
Recommended Hosting: http://www.affordablehost.com/
Web Standards: http://www.webstandards.org/

Jim Kelly 06-23-2003 10:43 PM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use?
 
Iso,

I'd be interested to know if you have a recommendation for the group in
question to use? I expect that an orderly hierarchical presentation
would be essential, with a clean, consistent, elegant style preferred
over a flashy presentation.

Also, several have proffered www.namo.com . Any comments?

Cheers,

Jim Kelly.


"Isofarro" <spamblock@spamdetector.co.uk> wrote in message
news:v9l7db.ct1.ln@sidious.isolani.co.uk...
| Nicolai P. Zwar wrote:
|
| > The "problem" is
| > "designing" and "layouting" an HTML page with CSS (or until not too
long
| > ago, with HTML itself!), and it's there where the problems for
novices
| > start,
|
| With a properly constructed website where the CSS suggests the layout,
there
| is no problem with the user editing the content by himself, since the
| presentation is done with the CSS.
|
|
| --
| Iso.
| FAQs: http://html-faq.com http://alt-html.org http://allmyfaqs.com/
| Recommended Hosting: http://www.affordablehost.com/
| Web Standards: http://www.webstandards.org/


Jerry Muelver 06-24-2003 01:24 AM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use?
 
"Jim Kelly" <kellwood@compuREMOVE_TO_EMAIL_MEserve.com> wrote in message news:<3ef78451$0$26635$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com. au>...
.. . .
> Also, several have proffered www.namo.com . Any comments?
>


I used to like Namo. In fact, I put up a support site and forum for
it, in version 3, and beta-tested 4. Now, it's too much like
DreamWeaver in its complexity and invitation to glitz-experimentation.
Give your people something like that, and you'll have a whole new
career supporting their content-irrelevant formatting adventures.

---- jerry (http://hytext.com)

Matthias Gutfeldt 06-24-2003 09:04 AM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executiveuse?
 
Jerry Muelver wrote:
> "Jim Kelly" <kellwood@compuREMOVE_TO_EMAIL_MEserve.com> wrote in message news:<3ef78451$0$26635$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com. au>...
> . . .
>
>>Also, several have proffered www.namo.com . Any comments?
>>

>
> I used to like Namo. In fact, I put up a support site and forum for
> it, in version 3, and beta-tested 4. Now, it's too much like
> DreamWeaver in its complexity and invitation to glitz-experimentation.
> Give your people something like that, and you'll have a whole new
> career supporting their content-irrelevant formatting adventures.


I've been looking at Macromedia Contribute these last few days. It is
sufficiently simple that newbie users can work with it. And a sensible
permissions system can prevent newbies from doing too much damage to
their own site.

Of course it's not perfect for everybody. And the permissions system is
purely Contribute-based, there can only be one root FTP account, no
individual FTP accounts for individual directories. It seems to be based
on the assumptions that Contribute users aren't smart enough to try and
crack the permissions system. Oh well.

Other than that, it seems to be working fine. Once we complete our lab
tests we'll soon do some human testing 'in the wild'.


Matthias


Nicolai P. Zwar 06-24-2003 11:42 AM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executiveuse?
 
Isofarro wrote:
> Nicolai P. Zwar wrote:
>
>
>>The "problem" is
>>"designing" and "layouting" an HTML page with CSS (or until not too long
>>ago, with HTML itself!), and it's there where the problems for novices
>>start,

>
>
> With a properly constructed website where the CSS suggests the layout, there
> is no problem with the user editing the content by himself, since the
> presentation is done with the CSS.



Which is why I hope I never have to do a page layout and design with
HTML gimmicks again. CSS is so much more practical and useful.

However, Jim's clients were looking for authoring tools to "build" a
website, so that includes the design.

Content managment has drastically improved with XHTML and CSS.

--
Nicolai Zwar
http://www.nicolaizwar.com
(we're late, we know, but we're still closed)


Jim Kelly 06-24-2003 02:39 PM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use?
 
"Nicolai P. Zwar" <NPZwar@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3EF83922.1020701@bigfoot.com...
| Isofarro wrote:
| > Nicolai P. Zwar wrote:
| >
| >
| >>The "problem" is
| >>"designing" and "layouting" an HTML page with CSS (or until not too
long
| >>ago, with HTML itself!), and it's there where the problems for
novices
| >>start,
| >
| >
| > With a properly constructed website where the CSS suggests the
layout, there
| > is no problem with the user editing the content by himself, since
the
| > presentation is done with the CSS.
|
|
| Which is why I hope I never have to do a page layout and design with
| HTML gimmicks again. CSS is so much more practical and useful.
|
| However, Jim's clients were looking for authoring tools to "build" a
| website, so that includes the design.
|
| Content managment has drastically improved with XHTML and CSS.
|
| --
| Nicolai Zwar
| http://www.nicolaizwar.com
| (we're late, we know, but we're still closed)

Hi Nicolai and others,

Yes, I think it is a 'power' thing. All or nothing. These folk are
sitting in the wings waiting for the dust to settle so that they can
present their knowledge in an efficient, effective way. Have you any
advice for me/them to help get started? Style would be an important
aspect, so templates and handholding welcome to some extent for
fast-tracking the learning process, but glamour and flashiness is not a
priority. We are not dealing with advertising material, more of
presentation using the finesse of links to cross reference similar
knowledge.

I hope that publishing in a clear concise effective manner does not
require elaborate computing skills for too much longer. Else we will
alienate some of the people best able to provide the wisdom for
generations to come. Many folk who are retiring now fall into this
catagory. Always had teams around them to help. Now on their own. Ready
to learn what ever is needed, but easily daunted and not as tenacious as
they used to be.

Example:
One lovely fellow (mid fifties) has a massive collection of information
about his lifelong hobby/passion in aviation. He is a very competent
accomplished engineer, quite computer literate, but not in a programming
sense. His email, downloaded files, word & excel files, photos,
contacts, web-links will all be stored in thoughtfully planned
directories in their respective applications. Currently frustrated by
this, he dearly wants to setup his own 'intranet', and to consider later
publishing his 'knowledge'. Perhaps you may have a relative or
acquaintance similar? What products and tutorials would you head him/her
towards to achieve an enjoyable process of compiling all of this
'knowledge' in an elegant manner, easily searched, and navigated by all
manner of people for decades to come?

Btw, I am not a website developer . . but I do share the same dreams as
my friends and clients in these regards, and want to lead the way where
I can. We older blokes certainly have learnt that it doesn't pay to
re-invent the wheel! Been there - done that in earlier times! If there
is an easier way to do something well, then we want to use it!

Thank you all for your kind advice, I have a bundle of links to follow
up on. I have a feeling that some of you could perhaps help shorten the
list! Please do!

For the benefit of lurkers to this thread - and future readers, here is
the short list (from a variety of sources):
Hopefully some of you folk can quickly eliminate several of them now
that I have explained myself more clearly?

WikiWriter http://hytext.com

www.Namo.com Namo WebEditor v5.5

www.coffeecup.com HTML

Ms FrontPage 2002 (2003 soon)
http://www.microsoft.com/office/prev...page/guide.asp

HTML-Kit http://www.chami.com/html-kit/

AceHTML Pro http://www.visicommedia.com/acehtml/

1st Page 2000 v2 http://www.evrsoft.com/

Macromedia HomeSite
http://www.macromedia.com/software/homesite/

Macromedia Contribute
http://www.macromedia.com/software/contribute/

"Blogging" software (none suggested as yet).

Thanks again, your advice and time is appreciated,

Jim Kelly.


Isofarro 06-24-2003 08:14 PM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use?
 
Matthias Gutfeldt wrote:

> I've been looking at Macromedia Contribute these last few days. It is
> sufficiently simple that newbie users can work with it. And a sensible
> permissions system can prevent newbies from doing too much damage to
> their own site.


Its a good tool indeed.

--
Iso.
FAQs: http://html-faq.com http://alt-html.org http://allmyfaqs.com/
Recommended Hosting: http://www.affordablehost.com/
Web Standards: http://www.webstandards.org/

Frogleg 06-25-2003 06:09 PM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use?
 
>Jim Kelly wrote:

>[snip]
>
>
>> Example:
>> One lovely fellow (mid fifties) has a massive collection of information
>> about his lifelong hobby/passion in aviation. He is a very competent
>> accomplished engineer, quite computer literate, but not in a programming
>> sense. His email, downloaded files, word & excel files, photos,
>> contacts, web-links will all be stored in thoughtfully planned
>> directories in their respective applications. Currently frustrated by
>> this,


?? He's frustrated by planning to organize his data and mail files?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic -- I just don't understand your
wording.

>> he dearly wants to setup his own 'intranet', and to consider later
>> publishing his 'knowledge'. Perhaps you may have a relative or
>> acquaintance similar?


Yep. Had a friend who got his first machine and asked me how to put
all the brochures, newspaper articles, how-to booklets, product
manuals, etc. he'd been collecting in filing cabinets "on the
computer." I explained something about scanning, the difference
between text and images, a little about OCR, and some vague references
to databases and information retrieval. I realize your "lovely fellow"
isn't quite in this category, but a desire to "put everything on the
web" with a single software product and not much work or knowledge
isn't too far afield.

>> What products and tutorials would you head him/her
>> towards to achieve an enjoyable process of compiling all of this
>> 'knowledge' in an elegant manner, easily searched, and navigated by all
>> manner of people for decades to come?


Tell him to write a book. With a good index. No kidding. If he indeed
has a wealth of knowledge, good organizational skills, and a unique
perspective, he probably could do a decent one. If he just has an
avation data collection, it's probably already available on the web.
"...compiling all of this 'knowledge' in an elegant manner, easily
searched, and navigated by all manner of people for decades to come"
is practically the definition of a book. A personal intranet will need
to be retooled in 3 years. Or less

Jim Kelly 06-26-2003 10:35 AM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use?
 
>>Tell him to write a book<<

Come on!! Who reads reference books these days?? yes they look great on
the shelf but . . .

Surely we are moving towards taking advantage of computers to help with
the collation of knowledge far better than any book. The last few 1,000
pg books I bought on computer topics were a dead loss. Poorly indexed,
out of date before they became widely available, and not kept up-to-date
as a website can be.

Perhaps I am looking in the wrong newsgroup, the more I think about this
it is an electronic collection (book??) of technical info that is
needed.

Books are ok on the coffee table, or where there are lots of glossy
photos to show off, but that's about it, except of course for fiction
where the art is in captivating the audience rather than teaching or
providing info.

my 2c . .

Cheers,

Jim Kelly


Jim Kelly 06-26-2003 10:38 AM

Re: Anyone found a good web authoring or newsletter package for executive use?
 
>>You've left out the most appropriate solution offered to you:
templates.<<
(Headless)

OK, I'll bite . . which products are augmented with a good set of
templates . . ??

Jim



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