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-   -   [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t140881-ot-iso-9000-9001-certification.html)

Joona I Palaste 02-09-2005 08:04 PM

[OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
Our company produces Java software specialised for customers. Recently
our project manager has recommended that our company should be ISO
9000/9001 certified. No one in our company yet knows what this actually
entails.
Could anyone provide a brief summary of what being ISO 9000/9001
certified actually means and what it takes to become certified? Our
company is small, employing 12 people, of which 9 are programmers. We
have been in existence since 1989. We have no products of our own to
speak of, but do customer projects instead.
Another way would be to have the company audited by an external body. A
search from ISO's own website found three auditors in Finland. How much
does external auditing usually cost and how long does it take?
Thanks in advance for any help!

--
/-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-------------------------------------------------------- rules! --------/
"A friend of mine is into Voodoo Acupuncture. You don't have to go into her
office. You'll just be walking down the street and... ohh, that's much better!"
- Stephen Wright

Dotty 02-09-2005 08:45 PM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 

"Joona I Palaste" <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:cudqco$eoi$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> Our company produces Java software specialised for customers. Recently
> our project manager has recommended that our company should be ISO
> 9000/9001 certified. No one in our company yet knows what this actually
> entails.
> Could anyone provide a brief summary of what being ISO 9000/9001
> certified actually means and what it takes to become certified? Our
> company is small, employing 12 people, of which 9 are programmers. We
> have been in existence since 1989. We have no products of our own to
> speak of, but do customer projects instead.
> Another way would be to have the company audited by an external body. A
> search from ISO's own website found three auditors in Finland. How much
> does external auditing usually cost and how long does it take?
> Thanks in advance for any help!



http://www.praxiom.com/



Tim 02-10-2005 12:29 AM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
Did this while at a major comp manufacturer. Key was documented and
repeatable processes. Like CMM level 4 I think. Also, some component of
analysis and improvement like CMM level 5. The big idea is the project
continues fine even if anyone is "hit by a bus". Also that the methods
are proven to work on other projects. If it isn't documented then it
isn't a process. ;-)

How much sense does this make on new SW products? Makes alot more sense
on integration and other more repeatable SW projects.

My $.02 for free,
TimJowers


Hal Rosser 02-10-2005 02:09 AM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
Its an expensive and drawn out process where you have a manual
in the manual:
Say what you your company does.
say how it does it.
Prove your company does it the way you said it would.
Document everything.
(Hire 2 additional employees to keep paperwork correct)
======

"Joona I Palaste" <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:cudqco$eoi$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> Our company produces Java software specialised for customers. Recently
> our project manager has recommended that our company should be ISO
> 9000/9001 certified. No one in our company yet knows what this actually
> entails.
> Could anyone provide a brief summary of what being ISO 9000/9001
> certified actually means and what it takes to become certified? Our
> company is small, employing 12 people, of which 9 are programmers. We
> have been in existence since 1989. We have no products of our own to
> speak of, but do customer projects instead.
> Another way would be to have the company audited by an external body. A
> search from ISO's own website found three auditors in Finland. How much
> does external auditing usually cost and how long does it take?
> Thanks in advance for any help!
>
> --
> /-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
> \-------------------------------------------------------- rules! --------/
> "A friend of mine is into Voodoo Acupuncture. You don't have to go into

her
> office. You'll just be walking down the street and... ohh, that's much

better!"
> - Stephen Wright




Lothar Kimmeringer 02-10-2005 08:13 AM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:09:07 -0500, Hal Rosser wrote:

> Its an expensive and drawn out process where you have a manual
> in the manual:
> Say what you your company does.
> say how it does it.
> Prove your company does it the way you said it would.
> Document everything.


And keep in mind, that the level of quality is not important,
only that it's always the same quality at the end.

A company producing life-wests made of beton can be certified
with ISO 9001 as long as they can document that they produce
them the same way all the time.


Regards, Lothar
--
Lothar Kimmeringer E-Mail: spamfang@kimmeringer.de
PGP-encrypted mails preferred (Key-ID: 0x8BC3CD81)

Always remember: The answer is forty-two, there can only be wrong
questions!

Thomas Weidenfeller 02-10-2005 08:21 AM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
Joona I Palaste wrote:
> Our company produces Java software specialised for customers. Recently
> our project manager has recommended that our company should be ISO
> 9000/9001 certified.


Good luck. Prepare to produce a lot of documents and to spend a heap of
cash. Oh, and first of all, you have to give up the common meaning of
the word "quality". ISO 9000 is not really about building better,
quality products. It is about being able to repeat the same again and again.

Basically you need to have your processes and procedures documented in a
traceable way, and you need to have a system in place for tracking and
documenting that you follow your processes and procedures as documented.
If you don't have established processes and procedures you of course
first have to establish them.

Common estimates are that it takes a company a year or so to get the
necessary documentation and quality assurance system in place. Then all
this needs to be audited by an external, accredited auditor. For hard
cash, of course.

> No one in our company yet knows what this actually
> entails.


May I then direct you to a book shop like amazon? There are a couple of
good books about ISO 9000, and the cost of the books will be neglectable
compared to the total cost of getting certified.

> Another way would be to have the company audited by an external body.


You have to have it audited externally. This is how you get the
certification. But before getting audited, you need to have an IOS 9000
compliant quality system in place, otherwise you will of course fail the
audit.

/Thomas

--
The comp.lang.java.gui FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cs.uu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/...g/java/gui/faq

steve 02-10-2005 10:14 PM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 04:04:40 +0800, Joona I Palaste wrote
(in article <cudqco$eoi$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>):

> Our company produces Java software specialised for customers. Recently
> our project manager has recommended that our company should be ISO
> 9000/9001 certified. No one in our company yet knows what this actually
> entails.
> Could anyone provide a brief summary of what being ISO 9000/9001
> certified actually means and what it takes to become certified? Our
> company is small, employing 12 people, of which 9 are programmers. We
> have been in existence since 1989. We have no products of our own to
> speak of, but do customer projects instead.
> Another way would be to have the company audited by an external body. A
> search from ISO's own website found three auditors in Finland. How much
> does external auditing usually cost and how long does it take?
> Thanks in advance for any help!
>
>


it basically states you follow consistent processes.
so if you document a process, then you MUST follow the documentation for that
process every time.

however if you do not document a process , then :-)

note that 9xxx is being phased out.
Also note that you can make it as "hard" or as "easy" as you want, but if you
go for the "hard" option then you will have to double your current staffing
just to fill in all the documentation, that you generate.

Steve.




Tilman Bohn 02-11-2005 09:23 AM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
In message <0001HW.BE31FDB70001A8C1F05095B0@news.newsguy.com> ,
steve wrote on Fri, 11 Feb 2005 06:14:15 +0800:

[...]
> note that 9xxx is being phased out.


Interesting. Could you elaborate? Phased out in favor of what?

--
Cheers, Tilman

`Boy, life takes a long time to live...' -- Steven Wright

steve 02-11-2005 09:32 PM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:23:31 +0800, Tilman Bohn wrote
(in article <slrnd0ouc6.bu4.myfirstname@urizen.tilmanbohn.com> ):

> In message <0001HW.BE31FDB70001A8C1F05095B0@news.newsguy.com> ,
> steve wrote on Fri, 11 Feb 2005 06:14:15 +0800:
>
> [...]
>> note that 9xxx is being phased out.

>
> Interesting. Could you elaborate? Phased out in favor of what?
>
>


The ISO 9000-1994 is the previous ISO-9000 revision.* This is now obsolete,
since it has already been replaced by ISO 9000-2000.


be clear, there are companies still offering ' ISO 9000' , training and
compliance packages, which are really the 1994 compliance packages.
you require 'ISO 9000-2000'


Tilman Bohn 02-13-2005 02:57 AM

Re: [OT] ISO 9000/9001 certification
 
In message <0001HW.BE33457200011332F03055B0@news.newsguy.com> ,
steve wrote on Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:32:34 +0800:

[...]
> The ISO 9000-1994 is the previous ISO-9000 revision.* This is now obsolete,
> since it has already been replaced by ISO 9000-2000.


Ah, so it's still ISO-9000, `just' a new revision. Ok, thanks for the
clarification.

--
Cheers, Tilman

`Boy, life takes a long time to live...' -- Steven Wright


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