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-   -   Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t11289-microsoft-windows-and-the-future-of-firefox.html)

Victor 05-29-2005 10:05 PM

Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 
I remember the days of Netscape 4.7. It was a good browser at the time until
it started to crash. And then, it came out that Microsoft had introduced a
Windows "update" that purposely caused a conflict with Netscape and caused
it to crash on most computers.

Those of us that did not have the time to do deep debugging and were more
concerned with getting our work done ditched Netscape for Internet Explorer.

Now, we see Firefox. An excellent browser that is certainly faster than IE
and is, in many ways, easier to use than IE.

I am asking the following question as a business user that uses my computer
as a tool to get my work done, which is 85% of Windows users. Like most
Windows users, I must use Windows to be 100% compliant with my business
customers.

*** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update" that
causes conflicts with Firefox? ***

Victor





=?iso-8859-1?B?/vOh/y3e9SH9IG1A8Q==?= 05-30-2005 12:23 AM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 


Victor wrote:
> I remember the days of Netscape 4.7. It was a good browser at the time until
> it started to crash. And then, it came out that Microsoft had introduced a
> Windows "update" that purposely caused a conflict with Netscape and caused
> it to crash on most computers.
>
> Those of us that did not have the time to do deep debugging and were more
> concerned with getting our work done ditched Netscape for Internet Explorer.
>
> Now, we see Firefox. An excellent browser that is certainly faster than IE
> and is, in many ways, easier to use than IE.
>
> I am asking the following question as a business user that uses my computer
> as a tool to get my work done, which is 85% of Windows users. Like most
> Windows users, I must use Windows to be 100% compliant with my business
> customers.
>
> *** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update" that
> causes conflicts with Firefox? ***
>
> Victor


You don't. You change to linux. The equivalent software has full
support. And WINE can emulate strictly windows applications.

poly-p man


John Thompson 05-31-2005 03:05 AM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 
On 2005-05-30, -! m@ <pyrophobicman@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I am asking the following question as a business user that uses my computer
>> as a tool to get my work done, which is 85% of Windows users. Like most
>> Windows users, I must use Windows to be 100% compliant with my business
>> customers.
>>
>> *** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update" that
>> causes conflicts with Firefox? ***


> You don't. You change to linux. The equivalent software has full
> support. And WINE can emulate strictly windows applications.


Or, use VMWare or Win4Lin to run them if wine doesn't work.

--

John (john@os2.dhs.org)

Ed Mullen 05-31-2005 12:48 PM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 
Victor wrote:

> I remember the days of Netscape 4.7. It was a good browser at the time until
> it started to crash. And then, it came out that Microsoft had introduced a
> Windows "update" that purposely caused a conflict with Netscape and caused
> it to crash on most computers.
>
> Those of us that did not have the time to do deep debugging and were more
> concerned with getting our work done ditched Netscape for Internet Explorer.
>
> Now, we see Firefox. An excellent browser that is certainly faster than IE
> and is, in many ways, easier to use than IE.
>
> I am asking the following question as a business user that uses my computer
> as a tool to get my work done, which is 85% of Windows users. Like most
> Windows users, I must use Windows to be 100% compliant with my business
> customers.
>
> *** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update" that
> causes conflicts with Firefox? ***
>
> Victor
>
>
>
>


I never had a crash of Netscape Communicator, nor NS7, nor any
Mozilla-based app due to a Windows update.

As for your question, if there's an update to a Mozilla application it
will be announced on the mozilla.org Web site, on various mailing lists,
in the netscape.public.mozilla and secnews.netscape.com newsgroups, on
Mozillazine.org, in the press, etc. Not sure what else you're seeking.


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://edmullen.net/Mozilla/moz.html
The only difference between a grave and a rut is the depth.

Victor 05-31-2005 06:28 PM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 

"John Thompson" <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote in message
news:slrnd9nel6.mei.john@vector.os2.dhs.org...
> On 2005-05-30, -! m@ <pyrophobicman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I am asking the following question as a business user that uses my

computer
> >> as a tool to get my work done, which is 85% of Windows users. Like most
> >> Windows users, I must use Windows to be 100% compliant with my business
> >> customers.
> >>
> >> *** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update"

that
> >> causes conflicts with Firefox? ***

>
> > You don't. You change to linux. The equivalent software has full
> > support. And WINE can emulate strictly windows applications.

>
> Or, use VMWare or Win4Lin to run them if wine doesn't work.


That's unacceptable. We can argue religion all day, but in the most Windows
users must stay with Windows. I thought I had made that clear.




Victor 05-31-2005 06:30 PM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 

"Ed Mullen" <ed@edmullen.net> wrote in message
news:p8mdncajcLGSwAHfRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> Victor wrote:
>
> > I remember the days of Netscape 4.7. It was a good browser at the time

until
> > it started to crash. And then, it came out that Microsoft had introduced

a
> > Windows "update" that purposely caused a conflict with Netscape and

caused
> > it to crash on most computers.
> >
> > Those of us that did not have the time to do deep debugging and were

more
> > concerned with getting our work done ditched Netscape for Internet

Explorer.
> >
> > Now, we see Firefox. An excellent browser that is certainly faster than

IE
> > and is, in many ways, easier to use than IE.
> >
> > I am asking the following question as a business user that uses my

computer
> > as a tool to get my work done, which is 85% of Windows users. Like most
> > Windows users, I must use Windows to be 100% compliant with my business
> > customers.
> >
> > *** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update" that
> > causes conflicts with Firefox? ***
> >
> > Victor
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
> I never had a crash of Netscape Communicator, nor NS7, nor any
> Mozilla-based app due to a Windows update.
>
> As for your question, if there's an update to a Mozilla application it
> will be announced on the mozilla.org Web site, on various mailing lists,
> in the netscape.public.mozilla and secnews.netscape.com newsgroups, on
> Mozillazine.org, in the press, etc. Not sure what else you're seeking.


Your referencing Mozilla updates. I'm referencing Windows updates.

What I'm seeking is,
How do we alert others if MICROSOFT introduced another "update" that causes
conflicts with Firefox?






John Thompson 05-31-2005 11:05 PM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 
On 2005-05-31, Victor <Vic8482@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "John Thompson" <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote in message
> news:slrnd9nel6.mei.john@vector.os2.dhs.org...
>
>> use VMWare or Win4Lin [on linux] to run them if wine doesn't work.


> That's unacceptable. We can argue religion all day, but in the most Windows
> users must stay with Windows. I thought I had made that clear.


Then you're at the mercy of Microsoft. Sorry. You can either suck it up or
move on.

But what's unacceptable about VMWare or Win4Lin for the Windows apps you
must use? Each of these provides an excellent Windows environment under
linux, and (in my experience anyway) are more versatile than wine.

--

John (john@os2.dhs.org)

Moz Champion 05-31-2005 11:55 PM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 
Victor wrote:
> "Ed Mullen" <ed@edmullen.net> wrote in message
> news:p8mdncajcLGSwAHfRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
>
>>Victor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I remember the days of Netscape 4.7. It was a good browser at the time

>
> until
>
>>>it started to crash. And then, it came out that Microsoft had introduced

>
> a
>
>>>Windows "update" that purposely caused a conflict with Netscape and

>
> caused
>
>>>it to crash on most computers.
>>>
>>>Those of us that did not have the time to do deep debugging and were

>
> more
>
>>>concerned with getting our work done ditched Netscape for Internet

>
> Explorer.
>
>>>Now, we see Firefox. An excellent browser that is certainly faster than

>
> IE
>
>>>and is, in many ways, easier to use than IE.
>>>
>>>I am asking the following question as a business user that uses my

>
> computer
>
>>>as a tool to get my work done, which is 85% of Windows users. Like most
>>>Windows users, I must use Windows to be 100% compliant with my business
>>>customers.
>>>
>>>*** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update" that
>>>causes conflicts with Firefox? ***
>>>
>>>Victor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>I never had a crash of Netscape Communicator, nor NS7, nor any
>>Mozilla-based app due to a Windows update.
>>
>>As for your question, if there's an update to a Mozilla application it
>>will be announced on the mozilla.org Web site, on various mailing lists,
>>in the netscape.public.mozilla and secnews.netscape.com newsgroups, on
>>Mozillazine.org, in the press, etc. Not sure what else you're seeking.

>
>
> Your referencing Mozilla updates. I'm referencing Windows updates.
>
> What I'm seeking is,
> How do we alert others if MICROSOFT introduced another "update" that causes
> conflicts with Firefox?
>
>
>
>
>


I have never run into a WINDOWS update that 'broke' Netscape
Communicator either

In the unlikely event one does occur, news would be disseminated via the
mozilla.org web site, on various mailing lists, and in the newsgroups.
Most likely pointing to a 'fix'. I doubt Microsoft would be able to
'get away' with such a feat anyway, considering the court cases it went
through involving such aspects. The possibllity is rather remote.

Victor 06-01-2005 01:16 AM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 

"John Thompson" <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote in message
news:slrnd9pmet.mnu.john@vector.os2.dhs.org...
> On 2005-05-31, Victor <Vic8482@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > "John Thompson" <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote in message
> > news:slrnd9nel6.mei.john@vector.os2.dhs.org...
> >
> >> use VMWare or Win4Lin [on linux] to run them if wine doesn't work.

>
> > That's unacceptable. We can argue religion all day, but in the most

Windows
> > users must stay with Windows. I thought I had made that clear.

>
> Then you're at the mercy of Microsoft. Sorry. You can either suck it up or
> move on.


No, like it or not, the market is at the mercy of Microsoft.

And, what you're claiming is, if Microsoft issues an "update" that crashes
Firefox on Windows, then Firefox is destined to the trash bin of history.

> But what's unacceptable about VMWare or Win4Lin for the Windows apps you
> must use? Each of these provides an excellent Windows environment under
> linux, and (in my experience anyway) are more versatile than wine.


I'm a business development consultant, which means I have to work with a
business client's present infrastructure. If they've got 14,000 computers
running Windows and I tell them to switch to Linux, I'd be out of my fat
fee.




Moz Champion 06-01-2005 02:24 AM

Re: Microsoft Windows and the future of Firefox?
 
Victor wrote:
> "John Thompson" <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote in message
> news:slrnd9pmet.mnu.john@vector.os2.dhs.org...
>
>>On 2005-05-31, Victor <Vic8482@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"John Thompson" <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote in message
>>>news:slrnd9nel6.mei.john@vector.os2.dhs.org.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>use VMWare or Win4Lin [on linux] to run them if wine doesn't work.

>>
>>>That's unacceptable. We can argue religion all day, but in the most

>
> Windows
>
>>>users must stay with Windows. I thought I had made that clear.

>>
>>Then you're at the mercy of Microsoft. Sorry. You can either suck it up or
>>move on.

>
>
> No, like it or not, the market is at the mercy of Microsoft.
>
> And, what you're claiming is, if Microsoft issues an "update" that crashes
> Firefox on Windows, then Firefox is destined to the trash bin of history.
>
>
>>But what's unacceptable about VMWare or Win4Lin for the Windows apps you
>>must use? Each of these provides an excellent Windows environment under
>>linux, and (in my experience anyway) are more versatile than wine.

>
>
> I'm a business development consultant, which means I have to work with a
> business client's present infrastructure. If they've got 14,000 computers
> running Windows and I tell them to switch to Linux, I'd be out of my fat
> fee.
>
>
>


No, if Microsoft issued an update that crashed Firefox, then the courts
would deal with the issue (if done on purpose)
And, the 'fix' (if there was one) would be available nonetheless.

I dont run MS software at all, yet survive quite nicely thank you very
much. To be reliant on one company as your sole supplier is simply not
efficient nor effective in this day and age. What if Microsoft issues
an upgrade that crashes Windows itself? That HAS been known to happen.
You going to say 'ah well, thats okay then'? Your entire business
would be 'down' while you un-updated and re-updated with the 'new,
fixed' MS update.

MS has, to date, never issued an update that crashed a competitor. They
have issued updates that restricted the use of a competitor (see Real
Music issues), but that had to be fought out in court. As it stands
now, to 'break' Firefox or Mozilla, MS would have to issue an update
that breaks W3 standards. This, should it ever come to pass, would
spell not the end of the programs it breaks, but rather the beginning of
the end of MS itself.

MS doesnt set standards automatically, tho it might wish it did. Its
'Active X' scripting is in deep trouble and may not even make the next
version of IE. Yet Netscapes Livescript is a de-facto web standard,
known as javascript. Many of MS's features have fallen on quite
disagreeable ends, due to exploits or viruses targetting them, active X
is one, as well as .vbs scripting, not to mention Word or Excel macros.
By placing your company solely in the hands of a company that issues
software with so many exploits inherent in the code, and refuses to fix
some of them, is simply showing that you have no imagination <g>.

Its quite possible to run a business using no or minimal MS software, if
you but try. Its quite possible to deal with other companies that run MS
exclusively while doing so. If the rest of the world decides to jump
off the bridge, you going to join em? <g>


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